Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473453#Comment_118473453

First it was about protecting people from a pandemic, now it’s about protecting a pandemic from people.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473618#Comment_118473618

This is my thinking behind it. Went in the A&E with one thing and the covid test found them positive

normanoffside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473453#Comment_118473453

Yes, they test everyone going into Hospital whether they have symptoms of covid or not.

A PCR test can detect covid for up to 3 months after recovery.

It's no wonder that with Omicron having been so prevalent that there are a large amount of incidental admissions.

Us conspiracy theorists have been saying this and asking for a breakdown in hospital cases 'with' and 'for' covid for almost 22 months now. Another good day to have been a conspiracy theorist all along.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473640#Comment_118473640

This is true, something to bear in mind though is that if you're not feeling yourself you're more suspect to injuries. In saying that these people are not in hospital to be treated for COVID which I think is the key point

ICU took a drop of 9 and general hospitals were up 12 yesterday (today's figures) I do feel for these people but I'd question if our restrictions are really helping the situation

choronzonix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118472525#Comment_118472525

I don't see culture as solely about gigs either, and i'm aware that there were gigs and events that have gone on as planned. My point is that your claim that cultural production is 'ticking along' in this country is just demonstrably incorrect - music, theatre, pantos, etc have continued to be hugely affected by restrictions that have been unreasonable for a long time. I have many friends working in these industries and the ones who haven't just decided to move into other fields of work are completely demoralised and depressed at how their work and artistic expression has been looked at as so 'inessential' to so many people.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473640#Comment_118473640

Something that had been questioned and called out for well over a year now on this thread, yet now we have the theatre of "official" Ireland and the mainstream media outlets like RTE discovering this in the last week or so. It's the same way I've been saying for 18 months now that cases mean nothing, it's the OUTCOME of those cases that is the real metric.

You can be sure this was known before now (and if it wasn't, then the level of HSE/NPHET incompetence has hit a new bar).

Covid has been a political issue for at least the last 6 months. My thinking is that someone realised how much damage has been done and money wasted for something that - surprise, surprise - isn't actually that dangerous to the vast majority of people in the country. But of course you can't come out and say that when people's business and jobs are closed, and billions have been spent telling healthy people to get tested and vaccinated "just in case".

In other words, the last 6 months (possibly longer) have been about justifying those sunk costs so that now, when the bill comes due shortly, the increased taxes and charges will be similarly justified by all we've "achieved".

darconio

it's been now more than half a year that they justify any restriction with the fact than 50% of the people in hospital are unvaccinated: did they ever interview any of these unvaccinated or asked if they regret not following "the science"? All I have seen are paid actors in some bbc footage warning people to get their doses. Surely some of them got out of hospital eventually, unless we are talking about the same unvaccinated in icu since july/august : they could enlighten the world on the methods used to cure their viral infection perhaps? In italy they finally opened the pandora's box and admitted that they are and were counting patients with 2 jabs as unvaccinated, but I'm sure it was just a negligible mistake.

Archeron

So Tony holohan and his 5% number

And that other hse exec who said they didn't even have a number just less than two weeks ago on national radio.

Lies or incompetence? Or deliberate misinformation? Probably an unhealthy mix of all three. These are the people we are supposed to trust?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473929#Comment_118473929

There was no way the HSE didn't have access to that data a few weeks ago when asked. And there was no way Tony actually thought it was 5%, when the figures from the UK and US were already out and were 40-60% at the time.

Its just the most recent absolutely glaring example of NPHET/Tony Holohan trying to keep the country restricted by any means possible, truth and facts be damned.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473953#Comment_118473953

As I've said before, the goalposts moved from "protecting people" to "protecting the HSE" long ago - and I don't mean A&E and hospital wards, but rather the execs and middle/upper management who have pissed away 20 billion a year for well over a decade and yet still haven't delivered a service that can handle even a modest increase in demand.

Let's not forget here - Hospitals have been "on the brink of collapse" EVERY winter for years here.

What Tony (who has also been using it to push his anti-alcohol crusade.. Never let a good "crisis" go to waste!) and the HSE have been at is deflecting from the questions that in my view MUST follow - "What exactly HAVE you spent the money on??!"

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118472159#Comment_118472159

I didn't specifically say we would be locked down until summer. But its fair enough to include me with that general strain of opinion - it sounds like the kind of thing I would say - so lets examine the claim...

The easing of restrictions will begin next month, at what pace we don't yet know.... except vague talk that we will be open 'by summer'.

So in fact this quasi-lockdown could continue until summer. Shouldn't you wait until we're restriction-free before summer before you crow about it? You often gloat about being right before something has happened and then end up being wrong. See: October 22nd opening.

I'll be going to at least two different open countries - maybe three - in the cautious interregnum between now and summer. The only one of us trapped on an island fighting a "war" (against microbes, have you dropped all the military analogies?) is you.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473747#Comment_118473747

Except no one considered that to be a conspiracy theory.

What is it with people on this thread stating that 'we were right all along' and saying 'we were told it was a conspiracy theory'...when, most of the time, it didn't happen?

I'll admit, there were things deemed to be CT that have now come to pass...but not everything!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473929#Comment_118473929

The HSE and Dept of Health are an institution that seeks only to protect itself, not the people it treats, and certainly not the tax payer who fund it.

Covid is a convenient cover for their own failings, as are the unvaccinated, as are the unions, the private hospitals, people with medical cards, "insufficient" budgets - all used to deflect blame from themselves.

Now that the covid narrative is collapsing, they will try and drag it out and exaggerate it as much as possible. Next big excuse will be treatment backlogs and missed cancer and other diagnoses - and they'll blame those on covid (and not their own curtailment of services)

growleaves

Remember when multiple posters got angry with me because I said we would be restricted in October?

'Why are you always on the internet spreading doom and gloom!'

What people miss is that there is a political dimension to these restrictions. They aren't something that just happens like the weather. It isn't like waiting for the Spring to arrive.

If you've spent the last two years defending the government and rationalising restrictions then YOU have helped to provide the political cover for these restrictions (albeit your influence as an individual is statistically nil but the huge support from the public in aggregate is significant).

If you don't like being restricted come and protest instead of making excuses for restrictions and paradoxically getting angry with people who don't accept those excuses.

growleaves

By the way if posters think that spending two years defending the government and ridiculing, counter-pointing and shouting down opponents of restrictions has no influence then why did you do it??? Why do you continue to do it?

'Oh I just like to pass time on the internet'

choronzonix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474183#Comment_118474183

The fact that restrictions are simply political decisions is important, and one that people often seem to conflate as being something imposed by a virus, rather than by politicians in lockstep with public health officials. Nothing ever happens in a political vacuum, including 'the science', and it would be great if people could wise up to that. There is also an assumption by some people that public health officials give advice simply 'in the interests of public health', when we can surely see that bureaucrats are subject to massive internal/external biases and pressures that affect their advice and decision making.

namloc1980

So of the 1,000 or so "Covid patients" in hospital, how many of them are actually there because of Covid and have Covid symptoms bad enough that require hospital treatment? This is important information. From what I can see the Covid data house of cards seems to be crumbling.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474249#Comment_118474249

Yes thank you.

It would be better to see the political situation as a negotiation I think. If you withhold concessions and demand a better deal for yourself that's not 'being mean' its just acting in your self-interest.

The government have shown that public opinion is a factor and they sometimes bend to demands, e.g. Christmas 2020 or water charges for a non-covid example

Many Irish people have a 'corporate employee' mentality, where the way to get by is to just do everything you're told and even outshine others in obedience and voluntarily doing extra work.

This is how Paul Reid frames it in his public comments. He thanks the public for being reasonable, accepting and following the corporate direction decided by the top layer of management of public institutions.

But we don't work for Paul Reid. We're citizens, with rights we can claim back if we want them back.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474616#Comment_118474616

The data from the US and UK would suggest anywhere from 40-60% of "covid patients" in hospitals at the moment are actually there for having a broken leg, being in a car crash etc, and are completely asymptomatic, but test positive when entering the hospital.

We're now hearing "30%" in Ireland from NPHET, but given a week ago it was "5%" according to Tony Holohan I'd wager that figure is likely to move upwards. So a conservative estimate would be probably half of the "covid patients" in Ireland reported on the nightly news aren't actually covid patients at all, and are in hospital for other reasons.

Which, combined with ICU numbers actually having dropped since November and being consistently stable at approx 90 beds taken in a country of 5 million people, rather undermines the "our hospitals are under massive pressure from covid so we need to stay locked down" argument of NPHET.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474689#Comment_118474689

Absolutely and also means there is a very shaky basis at best for ongoing restrictions today, let alone waiting until the end of January to review them.

normanoffside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474616#Comment_118474616

420 have covid symptoms so the number actually there because of and being treated for those symptoms is lower again.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474249#Comment_118474249

That is roughly how it works, yes. To add, the way a consensus or a consent is manufactured (in a way) is that health officials, politicians and heads of state broadcasters get together when there is an emergency. In order to spread a particular message it is important that the issue is framed in the right way and to set the right parameters in which a discussion is allowed to take place. In the case of RTE, the usual above mentioned parties take their 'seat'. The way the discussion is set up make the people of the country think that is the general view and their views will align accordingly. The importance of the state broadcaster cannot be underestimated. It is not about what each individual thinks but what each individual thinks the others are thinking. As they in general take RTE as being representative of this they will stay within 'reasonable' lines with the fringe outcasted. Since there usually are those on the fringe with very dubious and clearly unreasonable views it is easy pickings for officialdom to highlight how right the consensus is. It is a feedback loop. The discussions on platforms like Boards do not make any difference. It is when there is enough pushback within political parties when thing start to change. However, for that to happen there has to be overwhelming evidence of the consensus being wrong within society.

Floppybits

So if someone rocks up to A&E with say a broken wrist and they do the covid test and they are positive but showing no symptoms do the hospital staff treat that person differently in do they give them some drugs or oxygen or whatever treatments they have for covid or do they move them to a covid ward or whatever and just treat the wrist?

normanoffside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475069#Comment_118475069

The latter.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475090#Comment_118475090

But yet are still counted in the covid numbers?

Archeron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474616#Comment_118474616

Ask Tony last week and its about 950

Ask Tony this week and its probably 700

Ask Tony next week, it will probably be still 700, but this time he will glare at you for asking and make some STARK WARNINGS

Ask the HSE last week and they apparently have no idea.

Ask the HSE this week and they'll probably agree with Tony and whatever he says.

Ask the minister for health and he'll play bullsh*t bingo and avoid the question.

Ask the Taoiseach and he will probably set up an advisory board to investigate the question, with about 10 people on it, each earning about 100k per year.

Look to international numbers being reported, and its probably about 500.

So to give it the NPHET answer, we aren't really sure but we can definitely confirm its somewhere between 1 and 1000. Our best guess is that its probably 995 and we should keep restrictions in place until we better understand these things that other countries and international data have been telling us for months.

Just two more weeks, hold firm.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118474950#Comment_118474950

but even those with symptoms may be in hospital for "other" reasons.

They are counting as a covid case based merely on the presence of covid symptoms - not whether those covid symptoms has the person hospitalised.

the numbers are being fudged to protect the hse or highly paid civil servants....the numbers are a sham and always have been.

Never forget the withholding of cases numbers till exactly the same day as the Taoiseach announced further restrictions - to justify the move - If you believe that was coincidental you are foolish

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475053#Comment_118475053

I agree with this except that I could imagine a large demonstration of people outwith party support would also work, if it could come about in the first place somehow and obviously it could not be spearheaded by Gemma O'Doherty or Justin Barrett. Though if such a thing were gaining popularity then one or more mainstream parties could latch onto it.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475127#Comment_118475127

If this is the case and the HSE have cancelled appointments and operations because of this then their should be heads rolling in the HSE.

normanoffside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475100#Comment_118475100

They always have been. It’s been called out here for nearly 2 years. People are only realising now because the MSM have said so.