Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Agreed.

Which is why I referenced Nolan's erroneous, fantasy projections. I care far more about the fact that his figures are seriously deluded - so much so, that it has paralyzed government into freezing the reopening of not just part of hospitality, but all hospitality.

It's yet another shameful scar on the face of this spineless government.

That said, I did send an email to Philip Nolan in the summer of last year, asking him to up the charisma and energy levels. I clearly failed in my attempt, as evidenced by the worsening charisma and energy levels dispensed from his vocal cords over the past year.

I am NOT QUALIFIED to comment on his data projections.

But you ....wow.... It seems you believe you ARE qualified to involve yourself in the details. Well done you.

Can you let us know your qualifications, and why are not already advising Govt ?

I will be interested to hear about your alternative findings

Maybe NPHET will immediately clear a space for you to give them the benefit of your clearly superior wisdom and knowledge?

I will watch on with interest ...

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I am NOT QUALIFIED to comment on his data projections.

But you ....wow.... It seems you believe you ARE qualified to involve yourself in the details. Well done you.

I will be interested to hear about your alternative findings

Maybe NPHET will immediately clear a space for you to give them the benefit of your clearly superior wisdom and knowledge?

I will watch on with interest

Logic, common sense, and European COVID-19 comparisons are sufficient evidence to warrant re-opening hospitality. They have done the hard work for us, we need only follow suit. Look at the UK and how Delta cases are already beginning to plateau.

I don't need nor want modelling to back up my conclusions.

Chivito550

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Saying what?

That sounds daft.

Make sure to cough into your elbow, wear your mask properly, don't forget to keep social distancing blah blah.

Treating us like children basically.

prunudo

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

It should but it won't, thats what my gut is saying now.

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Logic, common sense, and European COVID-19 comparisons are sufficient evidence to warrant re-opening hospitality. They have done the hard work for us, we need only follow suit. Look at the UK and how Delta cases are already beginning to plateau.

I don't need nor want modelling to back up my conclusions.

Thanks for that....

So, on balance...I think Ireland’s leaders are better off going with NPHET and you know, actually qualified expert opinion ....over randomers on boards.

But thanks for giving your views ...

jakiah

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Thanks for that....

So, on balance...I think Ireland’s leaders are better off going with NPHET and you know, actually qualified expert opinion ....over randomers on boards.



But thanks for giving your views ...

But NPHETs advice is an outlier when compared to other similarly qualified expert opinion elsewhere in Europe. I'll go with the wider expert consensus, but thanks for giving your views.

Ballynally

The internet has some terrible drawbacks.
On the positive side it is harder for official bodies to hide the data they are basing their decisions on.
In the old days the doctor in the white coat was the expert and, unless you were trained, you didnt know any better.
Trust me, im a doctor rings a different bell now.
It has become abundantly clear that the pictures/scenarios presented by official bodies have been manipulated to serve a specific purpose.
These are not neutral presentations of the science but corruptive ways to steer the boat in a certain direction.
If you still take experts' advice on these matters at face value without question i suggest a more skeptical approach to offset your naivete..
Broadening your mind in the process.

KanyeSouthEast

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Thanks for that....

So, on balance...I think Ireland’s leaders are better off going with NPHET and you know, actually qualified expert opinion ....over randomers on boards.

But thanks for giving your views ...

What about the views of the rest of Europe? Paddy knows best is it?

Beechwoodspark

jakiah wrote: »

But NPHETs advice is an outlier when compared to other similarly qualified expert opinion elsewhere in Europe. I'll go with the wider expert consensus, but thanks for giving your views.

As I say, I have no expertise or qualifications in data modelling for pandemics.

Maybe you do, and fair play if you do.

jakiah

Ballynally wrote: »

The internet has some terrible drawbacks.
On the positive side it is harder for official bodies to hide the data they are basing their decisions on.
In the old days the doctor in the white coat was the expert and, unless you were trained, you didnt know any better.
Trust me, im a doctor rings a different bell now.
It has become abundantly clear that the pictures/scenarios presented by official bodies have been manipulated to serve a specific purpose.
These are not neutral presentations of the science but corruptive ways to steer the boat in a certain direction.
If you still take experts' advice on these matters at face value without question i suggest a more skeptical approach to offset your naivete..
Broadening your mind in the process.

On the other hand, the internet empowers us by allowing us see how all public health bodies are tackling the virus, not just our local one. This means if the local one goes on a kamikaze run, its easy to spot.

jakiah

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

As I say, I have no expertise or qualifications in data modelling for pandemics.

Maybe you do, and fair play if you do.

What? Im just taking the advice of the experts, same as you.

Doctor Jimbob

jakiah wrote: »

On the other hand, the internet empowers us by allowing us see how all public health bodies are tackling the virus, not just our local one. This means if the local one goes on a kamikaze run, its easy to spot.

Not to everyone apparently. We still have posters banging on about following the experts when most other European countries are taking a different approach to us. We have experts here citing Scotland as a reason for concern and people are lapping it up despite it taking a minute to find out that Scotland’s CMO is advocating a cautious but optimistic approach.

Beechwoodspark

jakiah wrote: »

What? Im just taking the advice of the experts, same as you.

I openly have no issue saying I’ve no qualifications in public health or managing a pandemic.

None whatsoever. None.

Neither do the govt.

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

I could bullsh1t and bluster and talk nonsense about trusting my gut feelings and common sense and not requiring data models yadda yadda yadda all day, but

On balance I’m happy we have NPHET there

jakiah

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

our govt are taking the advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

So you reject the scientific consensus from outside Ireland? You are just doing exactly what you accuse others of doing - ignoring the science and expert advice. Comical.

the kelt

jakiah wrote: »

But NPHETs advice is an outlier when compared to other similarly qualified expert opinion elsewhere in Europe. I'll go with the wider expert consensus, but thanks for giving your views.

No our scientists and experts are way better than…. well all the rest of them all over Europe.

That’s how we have one of the lowest 14 day case rates per 100k people in the whole of the EU…. Oh actually hold on there!

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Well when I say the EU only 3 other countries has a higher case rate than us out of 30 despite the other 26 being more open that us all have lower case rates but yeah our lads seem to be really more “experter” than all those others.

A lot of them seem to use Antigen testing also, perhaps they’re all lying!

prunudo

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve no qualifications in public health or managing a pandemic.

None whatsoever.

Neither do the govt.

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

You've repeated this point a lot in the last few days. Anything to actually back it up or are you basing if from the targeted opinion poll companies.
Nobody I've talked to this week is happy with how nphet and the government are currently handling things.

jakiah

the kelt wrote: »

A lot of them seem to use Antigen testing also, perhaps they’re all lying!

Sure just ignore all that. NPHET, made up of senior figures from the worst run health system in Western Europe, are infallible. No need to look elsewhere, nothing to see there.

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

You keep banging this "silent majority" drum, but the reality is that the public mood had already turned before the debacle last week (refer back to the recent IT poll for example).

The fantasy numbers and scare-mongering on Tuesday followed rapidly by revelations that the data wasn't up-to-date and didn't include all the factors resulted in massive public (and indeed media and political) backlash.
Then NPHET come out with more scary numbers and predictions of doom - surely not to try and make themselves relevant after crying wolf (again!) and Donnelly indirectly threatening to replace them with another group?

These are facts. You just need to read the papers, listen to the radio shows and even look around you.

I'm afraid it's YOU who is in the minority, not most of the posters on this thread.

Beechwoodspark

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You keep banging this "silent majority" drum, but the reality is that the public mood had already tuened before the debacle last week (refer back to the recent IT poll for example).

The fantasy numbers and scare-mongering on Tuesday followed rapidly by revelations that the data wasn't up-to-date and didn't include all the factors resulted in massive public (and indeed media and political backlash)

These are facts. You just need to read the papers, listen to the radio shows and even look around you.

I'm afraid it's YOU who is in the minority, not most of the posters on this thread.

Oh I have no illusions and no doubt that I’m the minority on this thread,

but I can tell you, get out and about talk to ppl and ask them are they glad we have experts in the form of NPHET to guide our govt...the answer might surprise you!

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Oh I have no illusions and no doubt that I’m the minority on this thread,

but I can tell you, get out and about talk to ppl and ask them are they glad we have experts in the form of NPHET to guide our govt...the answer might surprise you!

Sure.. pretty much everyone I know - with a variety of backgrounds, ages and personal circumstances - is long done with this nonsense and not even listening to the "experts" anymore.

Sometimes it really isn't them, it's you!

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1410673460624465920?s=21

niallo27

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I openly have no issue saying I’ve no qualifications in public health or managing a pandemic.

None whatsoever. None.

Neither do the govt.

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

I could bullsh1t and bluster and talk nonsense about trusting my gut feelings and common sense and not requiring data models yadda yadda yadda all day, but

On balance I’m happy we have NPHET there

Nphet are not experts on data modelling.

_Kaiser_

niallo27 wrote: »

Nphet are not experts on data modelling.

NPHET are HSE civil servants and bureaucrats whose track record in managing our health service speaks for itself really! Then there's Holohan himself - a GP with a god complex and arrogance to match.

The fact that they are going against policy and recommendations elsewhere says it all. We either have an "Oirish" variant at play, or as usual Paddy thinks he knows best/has to take the data/advice and give it enough of an "Irish twist" to completely defeat the purpose.

robbiezero

Ignore the troll.

Doctor Jimbob

It’s completely disingenuous to suggest that it’s NPHET vs random posters on boards rather than NPHET vs their equivalent in pretty much every country on the continent.

lawred2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

NPHET are HSE civil servants and bureaucrats whose track record in managing our health service speaks for itself really! Then there's Holohan himself - a GP with a god complex and arrogance to match.

The fact that they are going against policy and recommendations elsewhere says it all. We either have an "Oirish" variant at play, or as usual Paddy thinks he knows best/has to take the data/advice and give it enough of an "Irish twist" to completely defeat the purpose.

How much of it is an innate desire to be seen to do the opposite to the Brits?

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

They said not to have indoor dining open until late July and then only for vaccinated was it? Must have missed that.

Indeed. I take it you didn't read the entire report then? But yes - in the instance of non-pharmaceutical interventions such as restrictions on indoor activities - then yes they are advising that the lifting such restrictions "would result in increased opportunities for viral transmission". Pretty much is what been stated with regard to lifting restrictions here.

Many EU/EEA countries are currently implementing or considering the partial lifting of the non-pharmaceutical
interventions (NPIs). Lifting of such measures would result in increased opportunities for viral transmission.

Now as its a report for the entire EU / EEA - no they don't dictate individual countries response (such as the vaccinated dining idea - which is a non runner imo) but are indeed broadly in line with the modelling that the Delta variant will increase the rate of infection in all member countries in the next couple of months. But I think you know that.

Freedom 21

Freedom 21 wrote: »

Will we have a new plan now Leo says we wont have a 4th wave or has he seen the public reaction over the last day or 2 and decided il say what they want me to say?

He actually said that we WILL have a 4th wave but WONT have a 4th lockdown. Huge difference in what you’ve posted.

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

Do you include yourself in that spiel? It's 'sickening and embarrassing to witness'? What have you done about it? If nothing, you're just as bad.

gozunda

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It’s completely disingenuous to suggest that it’s NPHET vs random posters on boards rather than NPHET vs their equivalent in pretty much every country on the continent.

Except we know that no two countries in Europe have the same restrictions or have handled the pandemic in the same way. Yeah we don't have indoor dining and Spain insisted everyone wear masks absolutely everywhere and Norway closed its borders or whatever

What we do have the experts in the
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control now stating that EU countries are facing a wave of new infection and lifting restrictions atm might not just be a good idea and whether we like it or not pretty much what those bad boys in Nphet are saying.

Or we could play - oh look everyone is doing X - let's do that as well - why? - no reason just because!