Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

_Kaiser_

lawred2 wrote: »

How much of it is an innate desire to be seen to do the opposite to the Brits?

I think you have a point there alright. You only have to look at the attitudes regarding Brexit, NI, even the prospect that England might win the Euros (though the Italians were impressive last night!)

Despite the fact that we all watch English TV, people follow English clubs, shop in English stores and love Amazon UK, and we have a lot more in common culturally than with the rest of the EU, there is definitely still a hang-up about our nearest neighbours.

Beechwoodspark

I wouldn’t be qualified to question NPHETs advice compared with the Uk or some random Euro country advice

Just don’t have the level of expertise to do that

Some posters clearly feel they know better.

Fair play to yee, ye are being wasted posting on here yiz should be in govt buildings advising cabinet some of you !

I certainly Wouldn’t presume to know all the factors for NPHETs recommendations in terms of ireland specific modelling

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I wouldn’t be qualified to question NPHETs advice compared with the Uk or some random Euro country advice

Just don’t have the level of expertise to do that

Some posters clearly feel they know better.

Fair play to yee, ye are being wasted posting on birds yiz should be in govt buildings advising cabinet some of you

I certainly Wouldn’t presume to know all the factors for NPHETs recommendations in terms of ireland specific modelling

Don't worry, NPHET don't know (or are ignoring) all the factors either!

The difference is most people (and yes, most - refer back to my earlier post) have seen through them now and are ignoring their pronouncements at this stage.

The problem with this though is that, like the boy who cried Wolf, if the Wolf actually DOES eventually come we'll all be in a much worse place.

kwestfan08

gozunda wrote: »

Except we know that no two countries in Europe have the same restrictions or have handled the pandemic in the same way. Yeah we don't have indoor dining and Spain insisted everyone wear masks absolutely everywhere and Norway closed its borders or whatever

What we do have the experts in the
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control now stating that EU countries are facing a wave of new infection and lifting restrictions atm might not just be a good idea and whether we like it or not pretty much what those bad boys in Nphet are saying.

Or we could play - oh look everyone is doing X - let's do that as well - why? - no reason just because!

New infections that will primarily be in the younger aged unvaccinated cohort of which 99.99% won’t die.

Reason enough to keep the economy from taking off isn’t it? A less deadly strain of a virus that for the most part is harmless to those who will now catch it.

ACitizenErased

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

KanyeSouthEast

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

It’s like your man Comical Ali telling us the Americans had been driven out of Iraq and bombs landing all around him. Mental is right.

Miharo

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

I genuinely believe some posters are working on behalf of NPHET / the government.

Ballynally

kwestfan08 wrote: »

New infections that will primarily be in the younger aged unvaccinated cohort of which 99.99% won’t die.

Reason enough to keep the economy from taking off isn’t it? A less deadly strain of a virus that for the most part is harmless to those who will now catch it.

EU health organisations overall are prone to advocate caution and advise governments to use restrictions in order to surpress ..... fill in the blanks here.
It is still up to governments to make decisions about their country.

Sorry, no relevance to your post but to the initial poster your post was commenting on.
Gozunda has been on my ignore list for a while now

_Kaiser_

Miharo wrote: »

I genuinely believe some posters are working on behalf of NPHET / the government.

Possible I suppose, but I think a lot of it (at national level) is just down to some people's natural deference to authority no matter what, a need to be seen to be on the right side of an issue, and an "I'm alright Jack" POV in that if something doesn't affect them (or if they are actually doing well from it) then feck everyone else!

Covid aside, it explains why a lot of things are the way they are in Ireland!

Beechwoodspark

Just in case anyone suspects I’m some sort of Undercover NPHET Mole sorry to break it to you but a travelling Salesman and stockist for convenience stores here ! Nothing more exciting than that

I don’t feel we are overly deferential as a nation to NPHET.

More - NPHET have the expertise and qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.

I would also strenuously say we should not take any advice as if from a stone tablet given to Moses

bucketybuck

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

Of course we won't. And we knew damn well that we wouldn't when the chucklefucks were saying "We have come this far, do we want to throw it away for the sake of just two more weeks" :rolleyes:

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s not a matter of Tony “allowing it”

It comes down to the situation in terms of numbers and projections - all based on expert advice

Why are the "experts" giving very different advice than the experts in our closest neighbouring countries? Which of the "experts" is wrong, because one of them has to be, a child can see that?

bucketybuck

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just in case anyone suspects I’m some sort of Undercover NPHET Mole sorry to break it to you but a travelling Salesman and stockist for convenience stores here ! Nothing more exciting than that

I don’t feel we are overly deferential as a nation to NPHET.

More - NPHET have the expertise and qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.

I would also strenuously say we should not take any advice as if from a stone tablet given to Moses

I don't think you work for NPHET. Thats not what I think you are.

lee_baby_simms

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Possible I suppose, but I think a lot of it (at national level) is just down to some people's natural deference to authority no matter what, a need to be seen to be on the right side of an issue, and an "I'm alright Jack" POV in that if something doesn't affect them (or if they are actually doing well from it) then feck everyone else!

Covid aside, it explains why a lot of things are the way they are in Ireland!

We certainly have an unhealthy amount of obsequiousness in Irish society, it seems to be in our DNA. Whether it’s rooted in our colonial past I don’t know.

What we see today is no different to how someone like John Charles McQuaid ruled by fiat 70 years ago. It’s mainly characterised by a cognitive bias, a complete absence of critical thinking.

Maybe coming to an evidence based conclusion that the people in charge are maybe not as competent as we would have hoped is too much to contemplate for some? I don’t know.

Beechwoodspark

bucketybuck wrote: »

Of course we won't. And we knew damn well that we wouldn't when the chucklefucks were saying "We have come this far, do we want to throw it away for the sake of just two more weeks" :rolleyes:



Why are the "experts" giving very different advice than the experts in our closest neighbouring countries? Which of the "experts" is wrong, because one of them has to be, a child can see that?

I would suspect Part of it is we have far less hospital capacity in this country to neighbouring countries

acequion

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

I missed this excellent post from several pages back and have only just read it. It is a 100% accurate reading of the situation and I cannot understand how anyone would disagree. It is undeniable that the State has removed many of our basic liberties and it is undeniable that people have either just shrugged the shoulders in the Irish way or downright colluded and supported it because brainwashed by fear. Like this poster I'm worried for the future of this country. It has all the hallmarks of the Church dominated era,but this time it's the medics. It's frightening to see how easily it can be done and how history repeats itself.

Penfailed wrote: »

Do you include yourself in that spiel? It's 'sickening and embarrassing to witness'? What have you done about it? If nothing, you're just as bad.

Why is he just as bad? Did you not read the post properly? It's about the state abuse of power and there really is little the ordinary citizen can do apart from lobby TDs. As I said above that "spiel" is an accurate reading of the situation and why do people want to deny reality? Is it because they are very uncomfortable with it and prefer denial? Which is pretty much what the poster was saying. The collective response should be anger and fightback, not apathy and denial.

Beechwoodspark

The UK are flip flopping since may or earlier

Dominic Cummings says boris is like a trolley crashing from side to side in a supermarket aisle

Constant confusion and flipping and saying we are opening everything up by x date and then backtracking and deflections.

Looking at what they are at, I am happier with the Irish approach to it

Part of it too is we have much less hospital capacity here compared to other countries

Backstreet Moyes

gozunda wrote: »

Except we know that no two countries in Europe have the same restrictions or have handled the pandemic in the same way. Yeah we don't have indoor dining and Spain insisted everyone wear masks absolutely everywhere and Norway closed its borders or whatever

What we do have the experts in the
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control now stating that EU countries are facing a wave of new infection and lifting restrictions atm might not just be a good idea and whether we like it or not pretty much what those bad boys in Nphet are saying.

Or we could play - oh look everyone is doing X - let's do that as well - why? - no reason just because!

We are the most restricted country in Europe and we are one or the worst performing countries in Europe.

So yes maybe we should look elsewhere and say let's do that aswell because they are open more and performing better than us.

I don't think keeping everything closed because of what might happen is a particularly good strategy, firstly the vast majority don't listen anymore and secondly the money will run out eventually.

Let's destroy the economy and the future of the country and drive up hospital waiting lists that will kill more people because we might get a 4th wave that no other country seems to be getting.

MOR316

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I am happier with the Irish approach to it

Good for you.

Let's see if you still hold that opinion when the budget is announced

Backstreet Moyes

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

Are they being defended much anymore though I mean I don't think so.

Anybody who I have talked to are disgusted and don't follow the rules anymore and are socialising in houses.

I am not on twitter but from what friends have said they are not popular.

The large number of people who constantly defended Nphet have disappeared since last week, the only two are left is someone who i believe will never go back to normal after this is over because its like someone in a cult.

At least that person believes what they post and the other is someone who probably has nothing to do so is spending time trying to get reactions from other posters, not sure why people bother responding.

Deeper Blue

It's amazing how some will always defend the indefensible.

It'll be interesting to see how opinions change when the next budget comes around.

lawred2

Deeper Blue wrote: »

It's amazing how some will always defend the indefensible.

It'll be interesting to see how opinions change when the next budget comes around.

Sure we took emergency budgets without complaint to pay for the state's failure to regulate its banking system.

We're still paying USC and property tax because of it. And will forever more.

We'll just roll over and take whatever comes next.

We're the victims of domestic abuse.

Degag

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Looking at what they are at, I am happier with the Irish approach to it

Would have to agree with this. The overall British approach to the pandemic was a shambles. It's been coloured over by what seems like a very good vaccine rollout but even that was pretty unethical and immoral when it came to actual vaccine procurement. They also took a chance at the time with regards the timings between doses, if i remember correctly, that to be fair seems to have worked out fairly well.

Beechwoodspark

Degag wrote: »

Would have to agree with this. The overall British approach to the pandemic was a shambles. It's been coloured over by what seems like a very good vaccine rollout but even that was pretty unethical and immoral when it came to actual vaccine procurement. They also took a chance at the time with regards the timings between doses, if i remember correctly, that to be fair seems to have worked out fairly well.

And also, they keep announcing “full reopening” by x date then backtrack shambolically

TheDoctor

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

And also, they keep announcing “full reopening” by x date then backtrack shambolically

Its been actually the opposite on the reopening.

All levels were given with an earliest possible date.

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

And also, they keep announcing “full reopening” by x date then backtrack shambolically

As opposed to our lot who keep promising various businesses a plan and dates to work from then backtrack at the last minute, or who issue so many conflicting soundbites and articles through the media in the guise of "kite flying", or politicians trying to calm the doom-saying from NPHET, that no-one know WHAT is going on?

Yep, our lot are so much better! :rolleyes:

lawred2

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

And also, they keep announcing “full reopening” by x date then backtrack shambolically

I don't think you're remotely aware of how far behind the UK we are in terms of restrictions.

Degag

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As opposed to our lot who keep promising various businesses a plan and dates to work from then backtrack at the last minute, or who issue so many conflicting soundbites and articles through the media in the guise of "kite flying", or politicians trying to calm the doom-saying from NPHET, that no-one know WHAT is going on?

Yep, our lot are so much better! :rolleyes:

Yeah the communication side of things wouldn't be something i'd be bleating the Irish trumpet on so much either

bucketybuck

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

then backtrack shambolically

Do you know what "backtrack" means?

prunudo

Deeper Blue wrote: »

It's amazing how some will always defend the indefensible.

It'll be interesting to see how opinions change when the next budget comes around.

I honestly don't think anything will make some change their opinion. They blindly believe everything they're told without question or ability to be critical. They are either highly insulated from the effects of the pandemic or have a finger in the pie and are benefiting from neverending restrictions.

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

On balance I’m happy we have NPHET there

You've lost all credibility now.

You have roundly dismissed the equivalent of NPHET in every other European country - their science and approach.

But somehow you are a person of science and following "expert advice".

Now unless you believe that the 26 other European equivalents of NPHET are wrong, I think you should supply evidence to support your conclusion.

Until then, you are neither following the science nor expert advice.

Blindly following NPHET and zealous proclamations from Tony Holohan, speaking ex catedra, is more akin to a religious cult.