Dealing with Vulture Fund

Dempo1

Hi all, I won't mention the Fund applicable but they purchased my mortgage about 2 years ago. I'll be honest and had difficulties over the past 4 yewrs but always maintained interest only payments etc.

Mortgage taken out in 2001, small top up 2003.

Total Balance outstanding is €44k, of which there is parked arrears included.

So this morning out of the Blue letter's arrived with a demand for full balance to be cleared within 7 days, after that legal proceedings to follow. This was genuinely not expected infact a new short term rolling arrangement was planned start of August.

Astonished and quite taken aback, I contacted Abhaile (Mabs), unbelievably helpful and have commenced a process. It was let slip a surge in such activity has commenced. Obviously this won't stop whatever action the Vulture fund wish to take. I've read about options, PIA being a possibility but gosh the fee's are high anything up to 7k depending on complexity, I don't begrudge professional fees for expert advice, just wasn't expecting it.

Due to a long term illness my income will be affected so I need to be realistic. My Home (Small cottage) is quite rural, I've no dependents, single with an approx value of €160k.

So here's the question, sorry for the amount of details.

I have potential access to near enough the €44k to clear the balance but only if repossession likely.

Seperately Going down the PIA route will be expensive albeit some potential debt forgiveness (I understand nothing certain) and years of obligations etc. I want to keep my home, at 54 Never ever intended selling, mine is certainly not a trophy property but idealic if that's the right word.

What are peoples thoughts on trying to reach a settlement, no courts, additional costs etc. Is it unlikely given my equity is quite high and actual balance relatively low that a Vulture fund would accept a small discounted offer, is it even worth trying?

I need to reiterate, the offer to clear comes from a dear friend with no strings attached but I will fully intend assigning property in some way to that friend, my case is genuine, illness and reduced income has been my honest challenge and maybe into the future.

Thanks for any advice and please no prejudging, I accept my responsibilities, just looking for an amicable cost effective solution.

Geuze

Post your query on AAM also, knowledgeable people over there.

Geuze

Surely if you clear the arrears, and then make the full repayment going forward, that should be the end of it?

L1011

The purchasing fund should still be bound by MARP, under which an existing agreement like you have should carry over. If you had any agreement with the original lender there should be absolutely no reason to need to renegotiate now or look at a PIA etc.

Were your changes to the loan all agreed before it was purchased?

Jim2007

Dempo1 wrote: »

Thanks for any advice and please no prejudging, I accept my responsibilities, just looking for an amicable cost effective solution.

You should seek proper legal advice about this before acting. Someone who has access to all of your details, rather than opinions from the net. But I will make a couple of observations.

Mortgages do not crystallize out of the blue. Either a significant event occurred for the fund to do this or they are acting in error. If you had reached agreement on a new short term arrangement, perhaps it is an admin error. Check with the people you made the agreement to see what the situation is.

This is secured debt on an asset with more than sufficient equity to satisfy the debt, a debt which at least according to the fund has crystallized thus enabling them to recover the amount outstanding. I don’t really see the motivation for the fund to enter a PIA with you, thus weakening their position, if they already have the means to recover their money.

The legal process to repossess a property can be expensive if the owner defends the case and the outcome is not guaranteed so maybe that fund will be willing to offer a small discount, you’ll only know if you ask… but in doing so you are obviously revealing you have the means to satisfy the debt.

Dempo1

Jim2007 wrote: »

You should seek proper legal advice about this before acting. Someone who has access to all of your details, rather than opinions from the net. But I will make a couple of observations.

Mortgages do not crystallize out of the blue. Either a significant event occurred for the fund to do this or they are acting in error. If you had reached agreement on a new short term arrangement, perhaps it is an admin error. Check with the people you made the agreement to see what the situation is.

This is secured debt on an asset with more than sufficient equity to satisfy the debt, a debt which at least according to the fund has crystallized thus enabling them to recover the amount outstanding. I don’t really see the motivation for the fund to enter a PIA with you, thus weakening their position, if they already have the means to recover their money.

The legal process to repossess a property can be expensive if the owner defends the case and the outcome is not guaranteed so maybe that fund will be willing to offer a small discount, you’ll only know if you ask… but in doing so you are obviously revealing you have the means to satisfy the debt.

Thank you for that, I genuinely can not answer what has caused this decision, personally I think it's potential value against actual debt that's motivating this move in the sense they such want their money now rather than wait potentially 5 or more years, there's perhaps very little risk to them in terms of cost. I also agree because of this a PIA given my circumstances and property value not something they are likely to support.

In relation to means, my approach would be a last minute offer, intervention approach if that makes sense.

Thanks for your input, food for thought.

Dempo1

L1011 wrote: »

The purchasing fund should still be bound by MARP, under which an existing agreement like you have should carry over. If you had any agreement with the original lender there should be absolutely no reason to need to renegotiate now or look at a PIA etc.

Were your changes to the loan all agreed before it was purchased?

They are re MARP, however even though arrears are warehoused by agreement with original mortgage provider, I believe that agreement part of which was taken over by Vulture fund was just expired, this perhaps in hindsight has motivated the move?

Just in relation to me agreeing, disagreeing when mortgage taken over, there is no discussion with mortgage holders when this occurs, a holder given no opportunity to question anything albeit Vulture find does have to agree with Terms in existence.

Dempo1

Geuze wrote: »

Surely if you clear the arrears, and then make the full repayment going forward, that should be the end of it?

That unfortunately is not an option being offered, even if it where and I cleared arrears, even though only 4 years remaining and due to my illness I'd be concerned I may not be able to pay full monthly payment due to reduced income. I believe any mortgage provider or Vulture taking it over can for a number of reasons seek full balance clearance at any time obviously subject to any breaches to original agreement (Arrears for example)

Thanks for the response

Dempo1

Geuze wrote: »

Post your query on AAM also, knowledgeable people over there.

Thank you for that heads up re AAM

Jim2007

Dempo1 wrote: »

Thank you for that, I genuinely can not answer what has caused this decision, personally I think it's potential value against actual debt that's motivating this move in the sense they such want their money now rather than wait potentially 5 or more years, there's perhaps very little risk to them in terms of cost. I also agree because of this a PIA given my circumstances and property value not something they are likely to support.

In relation to means, my approach would be a last minute offer, intervention approach if that makes sense.

Thanks for your input, food for thought.

Don’t speculate, contact them and find out what has gone wrong since you agreed the short term arrangement with them to start in August.

In relative terms the amount outstanding is small, you are engaging with them and have reached an agreement with them. That is a bad basis for them to go into court seeking a repossession. The process could take years.

Dempo1

Jim2007 wrote: »

Don’t speculate, contact them and find out what has gone wrong since you agreed the short term arrangement with them to start in August.

In relative terms the amount outstanding is small, you are engaging with them and have reached an agreement with them. That is a bad basis for them to go into court seeking a repossession. The process could take years.

Apologies, I meant Current arrangement ends this month, I had anticipated a review and another period, instead the letters arrived demanding full balance clearance, apologies if I wasn't clearer.

Jim2007

Dempo1 wrote: »

That unfortunately is not an option being offered, even if it where and I cleared arrears, even though only 4 years remaining and due to my illness I'd be concerned I may not be able to pay full monthly payment due to reduced income. I believe any mortgage provider or Vulture taking it over can for a number of reasons seek full balance clearance at any time obviously subject to any breaches to original agreement (Arrears for example)

Thanks for the response

Of course it’s an option, it’s always an option and as you have already stated you have access to the means to do so through a friend without being under financial pressure to make monthly payments.

As I said before, mortgages don’t crystallize out of the blue. There is a reason or a number of reasons you have reached this point and at this stage I doubt we are being given the full picture.

You have been given some good ideas on how to proceed and you have a path to bring the situation to a close if you choose to do so. But you seem to be more interested in excuses than getting it sorted. Why is that?

Static M.e.

Dempo1 - if you are working with the MABS \ Abhaile then you will have free access a Personal Insolvency Practitioner, An accountant and legal advice under that scheme. Use it all.

Vulture funds are easier to make a deal with that banks so you might have more options that you think. Talk with MABS and give them all your details, they have dedicated mortgage arrears specialists who can help you get the best deal. At the very least you will know exactly what your options are.

Funds \ Banks can of course seek a full balance clearance but that doesn't mean they will get it. If this goes to Court then it can take a long time to get a result for either party. If you act now, I expect you will have enough time to get this resolved.

I think it would be interesting for others if you let people know how it went for you. There have been a few mortgage arrears posts here recently and the Banks are going to continue to sell non performing loans to funds. It just makes too much sense for them not too.

Jim2007

Dempo1 wrote: »

Apologies, I meant Current arrangement ends this month, I had anticipated a review and another period, instead the letters arrived demanding full balance clearance, apologies if I wasn't clearer.

This was what you said:

This was genuinely not expected infact a new short term rolling arrangement was planned start of August.

So what exactly have you been doing in respect of your mortgage? Have you met all of your obligations and engaged with them?

(Will be interesting to see what you post on AAM)

Dempo1

Jim2007 wrote: »

Of course it’s an option, it’s always an option and as you have already stated you have access to the means to do so through a friend without being under financial pressure to make monthly payments.

As I said before, mortgages don’t crystallize out of the blue. There is a reason or a number of reasons you have reached this point and at this stage I doubt we are being given the full picture.

You have been given some good ideas on how to proceed and you have a path to bring the situation to a close if you choose to do so. But you seem to be more interested in excuses than getting it sorted. Why is that?

I certainly have not offered any excuses and the facts are as I've stated, I'm really not sure why you feel differently about this. When presented with a blanket demand like I've been with zero options offered by the Vulture fund, I've sought genuine advise on my options, all of which I've appreciated. This only happened out of the Blue yesterday, I've shared honestly difficulties I've had, there is no agenda and of course I'll take all advice on board.

Jim2007

You also omitted the the Judgement mortgage registered.

It ends now, at this point I’m closing the thread.