Leaving job because of unrequested move.

Recliner

Hi.
Just interested in getting peoples thoughts.
Working in a role and area that is enjoyable. Tailored current 3rd level study to advance in the role and specific area. Paid for by company.
Was told on a Friday morning to move to another area on Monday. Same job title and pay, but completely different role.
No discussions were held with the employee, no option to make a case for staying put.
New area has no connection to 3rd level study.
Employee has been out with anxiety/depression since shortly after the move. Several months now. Has history of mental illness and had just returned to work after being off sick. New manager displays total lack of understanding of mental illness. Has triggered severe anxiety in employee after mandatory phone calls.

Question is: do they stay in the job or quit? Any ideas of how to navigate the situation?
Money is now becoming a serious issue.

antix80

I think the employee is spinning a narrative.

Recliner

antix80 wrote: »

I think the employee is spinning a narrative.

Why do you say this?

Peregrinus

Presumably employee has for some time been actively seeking alternative jobs offering a role that they like and that matches their qualifications? How's that going?

Recliner

Peregrinus wrote: »

Presumably employee has for some time been actively seeking alternative jobs offering a role that they like and that matches their qualifications? How's that going?

If they leave before 2023,they will have to pay back the college fees which would run to several thousand euros, which he doesn't have.

bucketybuck

Whats the real story here?

Can we assume that the "employee" was absent too much and so the company moved the job location hoping the employee would quit?

You spent more time throwing in mental health keywords than explaining the full situation, we aren't a tribunal you know.

Smee_Again

What did the employer say when ask why the employee was being moved?

Ash.J.Williams

Recliner wrote: »

Why do you say this?

reads like a copy and paste

Recliner

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

reads like a copy and paste

I still don't understand this.

Recliner

Smee_Again wrote: »

What did the employer say when ask why the employee was being moved?

Business needs.

Recliner

bucketybuck wrote: »

Whats the real story here?

Can we assume that the "employee" was absent too much and so the company moved the job location hoping the employee would quit?

You spent more time throwing in mental health keywords than explaining the full situation, we aren't a tribunal you know.

By moving area, I don't mean geographical. It's all on the same site.

I'm not throwing in mental health keywords and this is the real story as it was told to me.
I was simply wondering what other people's advice would be if they were asked.

Jesus lads, tough crowd.

Smee_Again

Recliner wrote: »

Business needs.

I can't help but think you're being purposefully vague and that there's more to this than you're letting on.

Recliner

Smee_Again wrote: »

I can't help but think you're being purposefully vague and that there's more to this than you're letting on.

Honest to God, what would be the purpose of that??

mcgragger

I am confused.

Is it you or is it someone else?

Normally in the Ts and Cs of employment the firm can move an employee as need arises. Check the contract.

now....


Tailored current 3rd level study to advance in the role and specific area. Paid for by company. .... So employee is not at a loss?



Was told on a Friday morning to move to another area on Monday. Same job title and pay, but completely different role.
No discussions were held with the employee, no option to make a case for staying put.
New area has no connection to 3rd level study. Companies decision to make based on the resources they have


Employee has been out with anxiety/depression since shortly after the move. Several months now. Employee is of no use to the company at home and employee has to be replaces while not doing their work

Has history of mental illness and had just returned to work after being off sick. Is this seperate to the time off after the move instruciton?

New manager displays total lack of understanding of mental illness. Some managers are idiots, this is common

Has triggered severe anxiety in employee after mandatory phone calls. What is a mandatory phone call?

It appears to me this person is not fit to work therefore should take the time they need to sort themselves out.
From the employer side they need people to do the work, even while supporting anyone with issues they still need to get the job done. So everyones needs have to be balanced.

screamer

Has said employee been able to continue third level studies in tandem with being absent from work, and why is money a serious issue if the employee has returned to work? If they haven’t, surely their mental health is a more serious issue for them.

KeithTS

Contract probably states that the role can change depending on the requirements of the company.
As such, stick it out but open a pleasant dialogue with the boss to see if they can obtain a little more information about why they were moved,
what the chances of being moved back into the other role are in the future.

Company is also paying college tuition, that makes it a no brainer in my eyes. Stay in the job, focus on education, stick it out until contractually obliged to do so without paying fees back, if still unhappy, move at that point.

The company are paying for college fees so it's most likely in their best interest to keep this employee in a similar role where there upcoming expertise can be utilised. If they're not doing that, there's is likely a good reason, some understanding/perspective of both sides here is probably needed by the employee.

antix80

Hi op. Sorry everything is too vague to give you proper responses. I know you probably do not know the full story, and even if you did you would keep things vague to protect the person's privacy.

If you want an answer to "do they stay in the job or quit?" based on the info you provided, I would say he should quit and move on with his life. The employer can't get blood from a stone. If he leaves and does not have money to repay the employer, and there is no final paycheque from which to deduct the funds, there is not much the employer can do to pursue him for the money. Obviously losing out on a reference would not be ideal.

Peregrinus

Recliner wrote: »

Business needs.

Is there reason to think that this isn't the case?

On the face of it, makes no sense for the company to spend money on upskilling the employee, and then moving them to a role where they don't use those enhanced skills. That's a wasted investment. Maybe there was a business need?

Why does the employee think they were moved?

Does their old role still exist? Is someone else filling it?

Recliner

mcgragger wrote: »

I am confused.

Is it you or is it someone else?

Normally in the Ts and Cs of employment the firm can move an employee as need arises. Check the contract.

now....


Tailored current 3rd level study to advance in the role and specific area. Paid for by company. .... So employee is not at a loss?



Was told on a Friday morning to move to another area on Monday. Same job title and pay, but completely different role.
No discussions were held with the employee, no option to make a case for staying put.
New area has no connection to 3rd level study. Companies decision to make based on the resources they have


Employee has been out with anxiety/depression since shortly after the move. Several months now. Employee is of no use to the company at home and employee has to be replaces while not doing their work

Has history of mental illness and had just returned to work after being off sick. Is this seperate to the time off after the move instruciton?

New manager displays total lack of understanding of mental illness. Some managers are idiots, this is common

Has triggered severe anxiety in employee after mandatory phone calls. What is a mandatory phone call?

It appears to me this person is not fit to work therefore should take the time they need to sort themselves out.
From the employer side they need people to do the work, even while supporting anyone with issues they still need to get the job done. So everyones needs have to be balanced.

It isn't me, it's a family member. I don't work for the same company so I'm going on what they tell me. They're not at a loss financially unless the leave the company within 2 yrs of finishing the course.
He says he hasn't been replaced, the work just gets shared out.

I agree that the job still needs to be done. And that his manager sounds like an idiot.
He says he has to respond to phone calls, if he is contacted by work.

I don't know what to tell him. I'm not really comfortable telling someone to quit a job. But I honestly don't know how he'll be if he does go back.

Smee_Again

Recliner wrote: »

Honest to God, what would be the purpose of that??

I've no idea but people are weird and do strange things.

Anyway, best thing to do is to read the employees contract of employment and the employee handbook to see what they say about changing roles.

Was the employer previously made aware of the health issues?

antix80

He likely has to call work once a week. And I know, that can be stressful when you're out on stress leave.

I don't think it's your place to tell him to quit his job. If he hasn't started counselling he probably should and it will help him make his own decision.

Recliner

screamer wrote: »

Has said employee been able to continue third level studies in tandem with being absent from work, and why is money a serious issue if the employee has returned to work? If they haven’t, surely their mental health is a more serious issue for them.

The were able to finish their course. Still not back at work and no real push from them to go back.

IITYWYBMAD

Recliner wrote: »

It isn't me, it's a family member. I don't work for the same company so I'm going on what they tell me. They're not at a loss financially unless the leave the company within 2 yrs of finishing the course.
He says he hasn't been replaced, the work just gets shared out.

I agree that the job still needs to be done. And that his manager sounds like an idiot.
He says he has to respond to phone calls, if he is contacted by work.

I don't know what to tell him. I'm not really comfortable telling someone to quit a job. But I honestly don't know how he'll be if he does go back.

Don't quit. I agree with the above comment that it looks like the employer is hoping that this move will cause the employee to quit. Either way, this looks like end-game for the relationship and it should just turn into a question of how much and when.

Look for a more suitable related job relating to your studies (as advised above). It doesn't look good if the company moved the employee from their 3rd level oriented position (they only usually pay for education if of benefit to the company). If you get another job you can discuss how the money gets paid back.

Was the reason the person has mental health issues related to the move? I wouldn't make a huge issue out of the 'mandatory' phone calls. An employee can be let go if the illness means they cannot attend work. That might sound harsh, but companies aren't social services either.

Calahonda52

Recliner wrote: »

... Has history of mental illness

This for me is the key piece in this.

Is this history documented medically or is it snowflake stuff?
Are weekly/ monthly medical certs being issued to ER?
.
EE suffers from MI
was out on SL
came back to work
gets moved
out on SL again
was able to complete /continue studies while on SL
Getting weekly calls from ER, who I assume is paying EE or is all SW?

If there is a history of MI, then quitting won't help and also won't help any perceived right to claim from ER for what I don't know

Mrs OBumble

Recliner wrote: »

I don't know what to tell him. I'm not really comfortable telling someone to quit a job. But I honestly don't know how he'll be if he does go back.

Tell him to follow the advice of whichever registered health professional is co-ordinating his treatment.

And if there isn't one (or they aren't being effective), then this is the problem you need to help the family member with.

mcgragger

Recliner wrote: »

It isn't me, it's a family member. I don't work for the same company so I'm going on what they tell me. They're not at a loss financially unless the leave the company within 2 yrs of finishing the course.
He says he hasn't been replaced, the work just gets shared out.

I agree that the job still needs to be done. And that his manager sounds like an idiot.
He says he has to respond to phone calls, if he is contacted by work.

I don't know what to tell him. I'm not really comfortable telling someone to quit a job. But I honestly don't know how he'll be if he does go back.

Each one of these situations is different and its hard to give advice unless you know all of the facts from both sides.

Reasonable mediators will question why someone reacted with months of stress leave just because of a standrd role change. There has to be more to it than just that.

Whether they like it or not now anyway they have become a marked member of staff. Managment will always have an eye on them and look for a reason to get rid, if the reaction to any sort of hard question is to go out for months on sick leave.

There has to be more to it than just a simple instruction to change duty

What age is your family member?

Jim2007

Recliner wrote: »

Employee has been out with anxiety/depression since shortly after the move. Several months now. Has history of mental illness and had just returned to work after being off sick. New manager displays total lack of understanding of mental illness.

Hmm and you display a lack of understanding of business. The employee was out sick, return to work, was moved and then went sick again...

You can't run a business on the basis of people not being there. Most likely the person was moved because the employer needs a reliable person in the role, not someone that is absent most of the time.

antix80

Jim2007 wrote: »

Hmm and you display a lack of understanding of business. The employee was out sick, return to work, was moved and then went sick again...

Not to mention, he worked in a role he found enjoyable, and after he was moved he wasn't replaced... Says a lot.

HildaOgdenx

Recliner wrote: »

Employee has been out with anxiety/depression since shortly after the move. Several months now. Has history of mental illness and had just returned to work after being off sick. New manager displays total lack of understanding of mental illness. Has triggered severe anxiety in employee after mandatory phone calls.

Question is: do they stay in the job or quit? Any ideas of how to navigate the situation?
Money is now becoming a serious issue.

I presume that he is receiving medical/ professional care in relation to the anxiety and depression so he should continue to take their advice on the health front.

He should be claiming Disability Benefit, he will need to get forms signed by his doctor in order to do so. That will help on the money issue.

It must be very difficult to make decisions while anxious and depressed. All you can do is support him as best you can by listening and encouraging him to keep going with whatever treatment he is receiving.