New 2021 Assistant Principal in the Civil Service

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641147#Comment_117641147

There was no form shortlisting on the last competition... Thankfully or I probably wouldn't have got through!

FenFlynn

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641291#Comment_117641291

That's good to know. Congrats on getting through! I won't spend too long dwelling on it then.

Bambaata

When it comes to education do people think it worth detailing a course i am due to finish in December at UCD? It was to be completed by May gone but Covid postponed it by a number of months. Im 13 modules through the 16!

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641355#Comment_117641355

absolutely.. i have an MA down that I haven't finished. :) They asked me about the challenges of studying during COVID in interview.

Bambaata

great, had you put it into the education section with the expected finish date or simply referred to it in the supplementary section?

floorpie

How demanding is the AP grade overall? Every AP I've met has decades of experience across many departments and agencies. As such they have an enormous breadth of knowledge and are astoundingly competent and dedicated.

Is it the norm that a new AP would be expected to meet the demands that these experienced APs have upon them? Or are there "entry level" AP positions, so to speak?

Edit: By "entry level" I don't mean "easy job" but rather...it isn't expected that you already have broad experience and so on

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641863#Comment_117641863

no i have it as the most recent in education and then "exams not yet taken" under exams. I listed the subjects- the qual is relevant to an AP role and a divergence from my other quals so I wanted it in the form!

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641903#Comment_117641903

I'm actually terrified reading that! I hope to God there are entry jobs!!

floorpie

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117642130#Comment_117642130

Sorry 😅 I only ask the question because perhaps my experience with APs isn't the norm.

willthiswork

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117642130#Comment_117642130

In my experience, there is a wide breadth of what an AP is expected to do across the civil service, but it is pure luck if you get a less demanding role on entry to the grade! However, inexperienced APs generally get more support and a learning curve is to be expected :)

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117642171#Comment_117642171

To be honest, i think it's more likely that you get the "poison chalice" jobs that people have been waiting 2 years to transfer out of! I have broad experience, but not in admin grades. I'm hoping for a cushy number myself 🤣 (no chance!)

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117642275#Comment_117642275

exactly, I all too aware of my weak areas that need development so I'll be asking for support if I need it. Sure if all else fails, there is always the possibility of going back to the old job!

Ravelleman

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641863#Comment_117641863

Write 'expected July 2021' or whatever into the education section - it is very common and self-explanatory.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641903#Comment_117641903

Even the most experienced staff need time to get a handle on new subject matter. And at times great experience can be a heavy weight to carry - all organisations need fresh perspectives, as they can help to move previously insoluble issues along. Since appointments reopened, the Civil Service has been opening up to the outside world, so there certainly isn't an expectation that you have extensive experience in the public sector upon appointment. What matters is that you can do the job. You take it one day at a time at the start and, as another poster rightly said, there will be support for new APs (though it always helps to be ready and willing to ask for it too). You will be called upon to make decisions, sometimes big one, from the start, yet the work is rarely in isolation, nor are the ideas often totally original. In that sense, you can always draw from those around you and from previous work.

brownbinman

form sent in, may god have mercy on my soul

I know there will be....but I really hope there's no tests. I hate them

TrooperJones

Hey folks, best of luck to those applying this year. I've been an AP since early 2019, and I've friends applying this year, so I figured I'd check out the boards page as it was a huge help when I was going through the process.

I started as a CO, became EO after a year, then AO after ten months and AP after twenty months. So you don't need to have huge volumes of experience, it just needs to be good experience and you need to be able to present it well. (I was under 30 when I got AP).

As for what the role is like, it's hugely varied, but in my experience, you'll need to be able to act from day 1. That doesn't mean "know everything", just act. You'll have staff and colleagues to rely on for info etc. which will let you make the appropriate decisions.

I always say "you've got six months to get good at your job". That's not a threat, it's an opportunity. You'll have six months to ask stupid questions, read briefings and generally pester people before they expect YOU to be able to answer THEIR questions.

You also don't realise how much the POs rely on their APs until you're in the role. You're the person they bounce ideas off, the person to whom they complain about the ASEC, and the link between their political world and your world of getting the work done. So you'll have support from all sides.

Basically, don't freak out, don't convince yourself you can't do the job, as if there's one thing that'll tank your interview performance, it's you looking nervous.

Good luck!

floorpie

That's great information to read, thanks TrooperJones

FenFlynn

Just submitted mine. Best of luck to all that applied.

squelch666

anyone work out the word count

it states '' 500 words for each of the answers to the Supplementary Questions.''

and then personal statement states ''in no more than 300 words''

can we put 500 words into the supplementary information?

FenFlynn

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644222#Comment_117644222

I definitely had more than 300 words, I was able to copy and paste a big chunk of information in the supplementary information section. There didn't appear to be a word limit in this case

Rikand

I think supplementary was the only one with no word count. I was actually at 400 words. I thought I did more than that. But sure, happy enough :D

Best of luck everyone. Hopefully we all get in :D

HydroTendonMan

In the ongoing HEO competition, the stages were online tests supervised by webcam, video interview shortlisting and final interview/presentation via Zoom. The only time the application form came into it was at my interview where the board based their questions around it. Hopefully they follow suit here and don't shortlist based on that application.

Best of luck everyone!

2021_AP

Application just gone in, basically a cut and paste job from last year's 🤞🤞🤞

PhoenixParker

The booklet specifically says they'll shortlist based on application forms. In my experience that means they will.

TaurenDruid

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645631#Comment_117645631

It's amazing the number of people who don't read the booklet, though. The general format of these threads is 15% - 25% of posts asking questions already covered in that booklet, as each new stage starts, before it turns into "When do you think the results for Stage X will be out?", and finally "Where have they reached in the panel, anyone got any news?"

Best of luck to everyone entering.

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645631#Comment_117645631

Really? Where? This is all I see as a reference to shortlisting, bar the list of shortlisting methods. Have i missed it?

2021

Normally the number of applications received exceeds the numbers required to fill existing and future

vacancies. While you may meet the eligibility requirements of the competition, if the numbers applying

for the positions are such that it would not be practical to interview everyone, the Public Appointments

Service may decide that a number only will be called to interview. In this respect, the Public

Appointments Service provide for the employment of a shortlisting process to select a group for

interview who, based on an examination of the application forms, appear to be the most suitable for

the position. This is not to suggest that other candidates are necessarily unsuitable, or incapable of

undertaking the job, rather that there are some candidates who are, prima facie, better qualified and/or

have more relevant experience.

In the event of a shortlisting exercise being employed an expert board will examine the information

provided in your application form and assess it against criteria based on the requirements of the

position. It is important therefore, that you provide comprehensive answers to the questions in the

application form to assist the board in its assessment.

2020

Shortlisting

In the event of a shortlisting exercise being employed an expert board will examine the information provided in your application form and assess it against criteria based on the requirements of the position. It is important therefore, that you provide comprehensive answers to the questions in the application form to assist the board in its assessment.

Doesn't sound a dead cert to me? They didn't for 2020.. well we were not notified if they did...

FenFlynn

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645904#Comment_117645904

Exactly my reading of it. Couldn't be sure, hence asked the stupid question 😊

Anyway, put in the best examples I could think of and tried to tie in as many sub competencies as possible. If it is shortlisted and I am not through, I know I've given it my best. I won't be too upset.

2021_AP

I think they will use the video shortlisting references as stage 2 instead of shortlisting off the form same as 2020. Wouldn't make much sense to me if they did both and they have already stated what stage 1 and 2 will be

AP2021

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646027#Comment_117646027

It would seem to make little sense to have both pre-recorded video interview short-listing and application form shortlisting. They are mostly the same thing in any case.

I had a look back at the 2020 info booklet which contained much the same text re shortlisting:

In the event of a shortlisting exercise being employed an expert board will examine the information provided in your application form and assess it against criteria based on the requirements of the position. It is important therefore, that you provide comprehensive answers to the questions in the application form to assist the board in its assessment.

The two stages outlined (online tests and video interview) are the same as the previous competition.

never_mind

Does anyone know the cut off time for applications today? Last minute over here but applied in the past so it's a copy and paste exercise for me!

Cheeseplant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646815#Comment_117646815

3pm!!!