Thoughts on court order wording

Hi all

Long story short, ex was pushing for court for ages, got her date recently and we went through the back and forth negotiations with maintenance and access. Holidays were a big sticking point as she was trying to word it as we take the kids for a week each and that she'll take them when I have mandatory work weekends, essentially meaning I'd have no holiday. I fought it and convinced my own solicitor of the back handed tactics and that it should read we both get a week holiday and the other party would take the kids that week. Therefore I could not and she could not dictate each others personal holiday. It was put down to be August then which I resisted and eventually after the sentence saying one weeks holiday in August, it was hand written in to say either party to opt for one week holiday outside of the mandatory work weekend month. Grand I thought all solved. Until last week and she asks what week in August am I taking the kids on holiday, I said the hand written sentence clarified that and I will let you know with plenty notice when I take my personal week holiday. To which she said no the week in August still stands and the hand written sentence meant we both had an option of an additional week. I was like not a hope and that point went all the way to the courtroom door. I take the kids for nearly a full additional week at Xmas, have them 40 weekends of the year and give her her personal week where I take another week off work to take the boys. Told her I have plenty opportunities on weekends to take them on holidays and when they are older I will use my personal week with them

I cannot believe its back to this, I told her to opt is to make a choice as opposed to another, opt does not mean additional. I actually felt the stress of last year hitting me, its like she knew I was at peace and content.

What are peoples views, would appreciate an outside view point on the sentence to opt

Thanks in advance

catrionanic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hi all

Long story short, ex was pushing for court for ages, got her date recently and we went through the back and forth negotiations with maintenance and access. Holidays were a big sticking point as she was trying to word it as we take the kids for a week each and that she'll take them when I have mandatory work weekends, essentially meaning I'd have no holiday. I fought it and convinced my own solicitor of the back handed tactics and that it should read we both get a week holiday and the other party would take the kids that week. Therefore I could not and she could not dictate each others personal holiday. It was put down to be August then which I resisted and eventually after the sentence saying one weeks holiday in August, it was hand written in to say either party to opt for one week holiday outside of the mandatory work weekend month. Grand I thought all solved. Until last week and she asks what week in August am I taking the kids on holiday, I said the hand written sentence clarified that and I will let you know with plenty notice when I take my personal week holiday. To which she said no the week in August still stands and the hand written sentence meant we both had an option of an additional week. I was like not a hope and that point went all the way to the courtroom door. I take the kids for nearly a full additional week at Xmas, have them 40 weekends of the year and give her her personal week where I take another week off work to take the boys. Told her I have plenty opportunities on weekends to take them on holidays and when they are older I will use my personal week with them

I cannot believe its back to this, I told her to opt is to make a choice as opposed to another, opt does not mean additional. I actually felt the stress of last year hitting me, its like she knew I was at peace and content.

What are peoples views, would appreciate an outside view point on the sentence to opt

Thanks in advance

I'm a bit confused as to what you are arguing over. Are you arguing for more time away from your kids?

catrionanic

catrionanic wrote: »

I'm a bit confused as to what you are arguing over. Are you arguing for more time away from your kids?

I see your question as loaded

The agreement was 1 week holiday each, I take a week off work for her to go on holiday and vice versa. I also take the kids for nearly a full week at Xmas. She now wants me to take 2 full weeks off work for her to go on holiday.
Now you question whether meant or not to be loaded, I have my kids 40 weekends out of the year, I need my time off too and have had holidays booked for 2 weeks, now she is expecting me to take the kids for 2 weeks for her holidays and another week at Xmas. That makes 5 weeks which holidays I don't have. I was basically told to shorten my holiday to a week and tough luck
I need some what of a life too outside of work and looking after my kids

Peppery

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see your question as loaded

The agreement was 1 week holiday each, I take a week off work for her to go on holiday and vice versa. I also take the kids for nearly a full week at Xmas. She now wants me to take 2 full weeks off work for her to go on holiday.
Now you question whether meant or not to be loaded, I have my kids 40 weekends out of the year, I need my time off too and have had holidays booked for 2 weeks, now she is expecting me to take the kids for 2 weeks for her holidays and another week at Xmas. That makes 5 weeks which holidays I don't have. I was basically told to shorten my holiday to a week and tough luck
I need some what of a life too outside of work and looking after my kids

I don’t understand though as the time you’re stating is still significantly less than the time your ex spends with them. You say nearly a full week at Christmas - so presumably your ex is with them for over a week (or in school they have two weeks off). Also over the summer they are off for two months. If you’re against spending time with your kids when you’re off (and if you were together by the way you don’t get a week off away from your kids unless they’re being minded by family?!) maybe you could look into paying for childminding. You mention weekends too - do you share the mid weeks too?

Peppery

Peppery wrote: »

I don’t understand though as the time you’re stating is still significantly less than the time your ex spends with them. You say nearly a full week at Christmas - so presumably your ex is with them for over a week (or in school they have two weeks off). Also over the summer they are off for two months. If you’re against spending time with your kids when you’re off (and if you were together by the way you don’t get a week off away from your kids unless they’re being minded by family?!) maybe you could look into paying for childminding. You mention weekends too - do you share the mid weeks too?

I spend less time as she is the primary carer, i offered joint custody at the breakup, she rejected saying I only didn't want to pay maintenance, kind of irony is she obviously wanted the maintenance. I pay the equivalent of 240 a week in maintenance.

You cannot compare if we were together or not, its a totally different scenario, I need to move on with my life also. If she has 40 weekends off in the year where she doesn't work and gets 2 weeks on top of that, I work full time, pay maintenance and have my kids 40 weekends of the year, I'm sorry if I don't see your argument here

If you arguments here are i should be glad to take my kids more, I would have no problem with joint custody, I can plan my life around that then. That option is rarely afforded to single dads in this country. I have a buddy in Sweden where its joint custody automatically and no maintenance but he goes half of expenses for the child. Here its a very different story

Also she is not working full time and that is very much voluntary as was stated to me on multiple occasions not understanding other mothers who rare there kids from 5pm on weekdays and weekends

jlm29

It’s hard to follow but do you intend to go on holidays for 2 weeks, but don’t think your ex should get to do the same? Maybe I’ve taken it up wrong.
Anyhow, you’re a parent now, I don’t know that “personal weeks” for holidays are a thing until they’re around 18? That’s my understanding of the role anyhow. So it seems there’s a pair of ye in it.
If they’re old enough, maybe you could book them into a summer camp or something so you don’t have to use up all your annual leave. Or maybe consider some parental leave if it’s an option

jlm29

jlm29 wrote: »

It’s hard to follow but do you intend to go on holidays for 2 weeks, but don’t think your ex should get to do the same? Maybe I’ve taken it up wrong.
Anyhow, you’re a parent now, I don’t know that “personal weeks” for holidays are a thing until they’re around 18? That’s my understanding of the role anyhow. So it seems there’s a pair of ye in it.
If they’re old enough, maybe you could book them into a summer camp or something so you don’t have to use up all your annual leave. Or maybe consider some parental leave if it’s an option

The question i am asking is about the wording of the court agreement. It was intended to be 1 weeks personal holiday each. I am taking extra holiday when I don't have the boys so it is not impacting the agreement. She can similarly plan similar holidays crossing my weekends, ie go on on holiday on a Friday when I have them and book her holidays from the Monday to the flowing Monday, it similar to what I have to do. People here are taking it that I am some kind of dad who doesn't want to spend time with my kids, I get 4 weeks annual leave, 2 weeks will be spent with my kids and 2 weeks for what I want, she can do the same. Plus on top of that she has 40 weekends to do what she wants. She insisted on being the primary carer and works 2 days and gets 240 a week from me. Yet I am being made out here as being unreasonable. I need to move on and try to meet someone in my life as well,

With bills, maintenance and mortgage i am stuck working 10 hour days Monday to Thursday, collect the kids after work on Friday, this is to pay for everything plus give the kids a home in my house with toys and their bedrooms etc. Yet she gets 40 weekends and a personal week holiday and from what I am hearing here I should be lucky to get the remaining 12 weekends a year

Parental leave isn't an option with the level of bills I need to pay, it feels like a constant grind, maintenance, bills and mortgage need to be paid. I sometimes feel burnt out from the lack of downtime, kids are young so they are full on for the weekends

I can't give full details of the case for fear of being recognised but my kids aren't the only kids and I seem to have been targeted for money over the other kids father as I was more willing from day 1 to pay and do as much access as I could, minute I pushed back I was in court so it might sound petty to someone looking in but its a history of 5 years that has caused me to do every order to the letter, I can't even do a favour of additional days now as immediately that will be the norm and be expected, its a very difficult situation

catrionanic

Trying to imagine only having my kids for 40 weekends a year, an odd week here and there, and then going to court because I want to go on holidays without my kids for two weeks rather than one...

You have four weeks annual leave and you are only prepared to spend half of that with your children. Children who you don't see very much of anyway.

Poor kids.

lazygal

You sound resentful that you have to pay for and care for the children you brought into the world. Please make sure they don't pick on this when they're around you.
I don't know why having more time with your children is something you're kicking up a fuss over.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I get 4 weeks annual leave, 2 weeks will be spent with my kids and 2 weeks for what I want

I think once you're a parent, 2 weeks 'off' for whatever you want yourself is extremely rare.
You seem to think the weekends where you spend time with your kids is her weekend off, I think you're looking at this wrong.....

1874

jlm29 wrote: »

It’s hard to follow but do you intend to go on holidays for 2 weeks, but don’t think your ex should get to do the same? Maybe I’ve taken it up wrong.
Anyhow, you’re a parent now, I don’t know that “personal weeks” for holidays are a thing until they’re around 18? That’s my understanding of the role anyhow. So it seems there’s a pair of ye in it.
If they’re old enough, maybe you could book them into a summer camp or something so you don’t have to use up all your annual leave. Or maybe consider some parental leave if it’s an option

I think thats nonsense, this idea that as a parent your own life should be over fullstop or until a child reaches 18, I dont think that is very progressive or sensible, I have heard this stated by a family member of mine, where my own concerns, needs, interests not only took backstage, but that I was basically treated like I only exist to assist others, almost like I am some kind of indentured slave.
I think what this guy is saying is reasonable and the post after this explains it even better. The other person does NOT work fulltime, you think it is unreasonable that the OP has some personal time, wind down, break from it all once in a year, and you think NO?

Deleted User wrote: »

The question i am asking is about the wording of the court agreement. It was intended to be 1 weeks personal holiday each. I am taking extra holiday when I don't have the boys so it is not impacting the agreement. She can similarly plan similar holidays crossing my weekends, ie go on on holiday on a Friday when I have them and book her holidays from the Monday to the flowing Monday, it similar to what I have to do. People here are taking it that I am some kind of dad who doesn't want to spend time with my kids, I get 4 weeks annual leave, 2 weeks will be spent with my kids and 2 weeks for what I want, she can do the same. Plus on top of that she has 40 weekends to do what she wants. She insisted on being the primary carer and works 2 days and gets 240 a week from me. Yet I am being made out here as being unreasonable. I need to move on and try to meet someone in my life as well,

With bills, maintenance and mortgage i am stuck working 10 hour days Monday to Thursday, collect the kids after work on Friday, this is to pay for everything plus give the kids a home in my house with toys and their bedrooms etc. Yet she gets 40 weekends and a personal week holiday and from what I am hearing here I should be lucky to get the remaining 12 weekends a week

If anyone comes back and specifically quotes this post and challenges it, it highlights how lobsided things are, that it's a given that certain parents make a disproportionate contribution and are afforded very little concern or consideration in return.


It may not seem relevant, but I read a thread recently about dating, it was to do with the difficulty online and women being harsh etc, and another poster replied stating that its not women being harsh, just living their lives (which I agree, women are people living their lives BUT SO ARE MEN), what I didn't agree with was her opinion that blokes upend seemingly happy relationships and end them, when women thought it was going somewhere, AND THIS IS WHY imo as ABOVE, because there is a distinct disproportionate treatment of men in relationships if they end when there is children involved. Not only that, most people (possibly even many men) think it is to be expected and normal.

catrionanic

catrionanic wrote: »

Trying to imagine only having my kids for 40 weekends a year, an odd week here and there, and then going to court because I want to go on holidays without my kids for two weeks rather than one...

You have four weeks annual leave and you are only prepared to spend half of that with your children. Children who you don't see very much of anyway.

Poor kids.

Are you actually serious, I don't see my kids much? Easy knowing you have zero experience in a relationship breakup with that message. Why doesn't this country automatically default to joint custody of which it would actually be a much fairer system? Instead I am stuck working my ass off to pay maintenance, mortgage and bills, my kids get 100% of my attention for the time they are with me, do your get the same or is your hubby doing all the weekend runs for training.

How dare you say poor kids, how dare you. You have no clue of the situation and history. My kids are very happy kids, they have everything they need and get quality time with me. I have been very active influence in their lives yet I have someone like you with your absolutely biased opinion saying poor kids without once looking that the mother wants her 2 weeks holiday without the kids, talk about a completely female biased opinion.

lazygal

The primary caregiver has the children more. Paying €240 a week for that level of care is cheap. You couldn't get a child minder for that rate so I'm not sure why anyone feels hard done by having to pay that for their children.

lazygal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you actually serious, I don't see my kids much? Easy knowing you have zero experience in a relationship breakup with that message. Why doesn't this country automatically default to joint custody of which it would actually be a much fairer system? Instead I am stuck working my ass off to pay maintenance, mortgage and bills, my kids get 100% of my attention for the time they are with me, do your get the same or is your hubby doing all the weekend runs for training.

How dare you say poor kids, how dare you. You have no clue of the situation and history. My kids are very happy kids, they have everything they need and get quality time with me. I have been very active influence in their lives yet I have someone like you with your absolutely biased opinion saying poor kids without once looking that the mother wants her 2 weeks holiday without the kids, talk about a completely female biased opinion.

Just because you don't like what you're hearing doesn't mean you can dismiss it as "female based opinion". I hope your kids don't get this attitude from you.

fits

We are soon getting away for our first weekend away since kids were born 4.5 years ago. I don’t think it’s reasonable for either of you to be looking for 2 kid free weeks a year.

Your hackles are clearly up so I’m not sure what you are looking for in here.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I think once you're a parent, 2 weeks 'off' for whatever you want yourself is extremely rare.
You seem to think the weekends where you spend time with your kids is her weekend off, I think you're looking at this wrong.....

I said previously I don't care about her having weekends, i actually don't care. She needs her downtime but I need mine also.
Parents who look after there kids as a mam and dad are doing it with 2 parents there the majority of time, its very different doing it on your own. So I get she needs her downtime which she gets nearly every weekend, I work a very busy (stressful at times) job for the weekdays and then have my kids the weekends. I get 12 weekends where I can plan downtime. The holidays were agreed 1 week each to do what we want, I then take the kids for another week at Xmas.

I am not in a situation where most couples share nights out for example, I just don't get nights out.

Its no wonder people breakdown if societal opinions are similar to what I am seen here

fits

fits wrote: »

We are soon getting away for our first weekend away since kids were born 4.5 years ago. I don’t think it’s reasonable for either of you to be looking for 2 kid free weeks a year.

Your hackles are clearly up so I’m not sure what you are looking for in here.

She is getting 2 weeks, she wants a 3rd, thats the point

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

The primary caregiver has the children more. Paying €240 a week for that level of care is cheap. You couldn't get a child minder for that rate so I'm not sure why anyone feels hard done by having to pay that for their children.

So you are now comparing a parent having children to a child minder

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I said previously I don't care about her having weekends, i actually don't care. She needs her downtime but I need mine also.
Parents who look after there kids as a mam and dad are doing it with 2 parents there the majority of time, its very different doing it on your own. So I get she needs her downtime which she gets nearly every weekend, I work a very busy (stressful at times) job for the weekdays and then have my kids the weekends. I get 12 weekends where I can plan downtime. The holidays were agreed 1 week each to do what we want, I then take the kids for another week at Xmas.

I am not in a situation where most couples share nights out for example, I just don't get nights out.

Its no wonder people breakdown if societal opinions are similar to what I am seen here

But you are seeing your time with your children as 'her downtime/time off'
It's your time with your children.

And you have 12 weekends when you don't have them at all?

fits

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She is getting 2 weeks, she wants a 3rd, thats the point

Honestly it’s hard to follow what the issue is. Of course it’s very complicated, these things are. . You need to work it out between you. But it’s obvious tensions are high.

lazygal

We have had our kids every weekend since the third was born. When he was 1.5 years and maybe ready for a sleepover covid kicked off.
Most people I know don't have downtime when they have small kids. Life just doesn't work that way. It's always full on.
I work shifts so my husband has to do all bedtimes and I do all the school runs. We're like ships passing most of the time.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

Just because you don't like what you're hearing doesn't mean you can dismiss it as "female based opinion". I hope your kids don't get this attitude from you.

Thats exactly what it is, I don't get the option of joint custody

lazygal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you are now comparing a parent having children to a child minder

I'm comparing the money you're paying to what it would cost you if you were the primary care giver and needed to pay someone to cover the hours you work.
It would cost you a lot more than €240 a week.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

We have had our kids every weekend since the third was born. When he was 1.5 years and maybe ready for a sleepover covid kicked off.
Most people I know don't have downtime when they have small kids. Life just doesn't work that way. It's always full on.
I work shifts so my husband has to do all bedtimes and I do all the school runs. We're like ships passing most of the time.

But there is a we there, its very different when it's just 1

fits

fits wrote: »

We are soon getting away for our first weekend away since kids were born 4.5 years ago. I don’t think it’s reasonable for either of you to be looking for 2 kid free weeks a year.

Your hackles are clearly up so I’m not sure what you are looking for in here.

Hackles, really

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

I'm comparing the money you're paying to what it would cost you if you were the primary care giver and needed to pay someone to cover the hours you work.
It would cost you a lot more than €240 a week.

Don't think it would as joint custody I would 1 out of every 2 weeks, so 480 would easily cover my week

lazygal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But there is a we there, its very different when it's just 1

No it isn't. You don't have them every weekend. You have time to yourself that we don't get because you don't have them Monday to Friday. I don't have any weeks where I don't have the children in the house.
You sound like you want people to agree with you rather than give you different perspectives.

lazygal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't think it would as joint custody I would 1 out of every 2 weeks, so 480 would easily cover my week

How many hours would you need, given than you seem to work long days?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But you are seeing your time with your children as 'her downtime/time off'
It's your time with your children.

And you have 12 weekends when you don't have them at all?

I'm not, I'm seeing it as 2 different things. I give all my attention to my kids at the weekends and don't look at it as a chore

People here are coming out comparing their situations where there are 2, its totally different

.aye if this country was balanced and joint custody was automatic then these issues would not arise. No maintenance no access issues, no holiday issues, you'd know your week and that was that but no its not like that here.

Pawwed Rig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you actually serious, I don't see my kids much? Easy knowing you have zero experience in a relationship breakup with that message. Why doesn't this country automatically default to joint custody of which it would actually be a much fairer system? Instead I am stuck working my ass off to pay maintenance, mortgage and bills, my kids get 100% of my attention for the time they are with me, do your get the same or is your hubby doing all the weekend runs for training.

How dare you say poor kids, how dare you. You have no clue of the situation and history. My kids are very happy kids, they have everything they need and get quality time with me. I have been very active influence in their lives yet I have someone like you with your absolutely biased opinion saying poor kids without once looking that the mother wants her 2 weeks holiday without the kids, talk about a completely female biased opinion.

Here is a male based opinion. My oldest is 7 and it never even entered my mind that I would go for a weeks holidays without him or his sister. That is the best part of holidays for us that we get to spend time together as a family without distractions of their friends and activities. Your battle on the other hand (and I hope that we have taken you up wrong here) seems to be a battle as to who can spend less time with their children so you can enjoy hols from being a parent. That is why the other poster said 'poor kids' I would guess.
Anyway as I said I hope we have taken you up wrong but you need to chat with your solicitor on this.