US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759507#Comment_117759507

Probably a silly question, but why are there so many people wandering around some planes?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759518#Comment_117759518

I accept that, but surely communications and the Internet must be vastly more influential than a decade or two ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759525#Comment_117759525

They're already executing these people, reports and graphic pictures on Twitter

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759414#Comment_117759414

If they were so popular, why did the Afghan People not elect them during the Loya Jirga, or the 2014 general elections....?? The truth is, even if you can't or won't see it is that they were able to take control from a demoralised ill equipped force, whose heart was more concerned with personal survival than defence of a corrupt government. Once the first town fell, it was all over. Just like isis rolled across Syria and Iraq. But they were not invited, for sure. And in time, unless they have dramatically changed, they will engender the same hatred by the local Afghans that existed last time they took power.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759538#Comment_117759538

Not in some goat farmer's pitiful shack in the middle of Nuri, no, and the same can be said for the majority of the country. Outside of places like Kabul or Khandahar, you really are talking about backwards. Seriously backwards, with a very poorly educated population that wouldn't even have a TV, never mind access to the internet.

Regular internet use was/is mainly restricted to the larger cities. According to some stats, there's less than 5 million with access to the web, out of a population of nearly 40 million.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759566#Comment_117759566

Fair enough. I sit corrected.

Can anyone explain why the airport is being overrun? With no flights, I don't really get it.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759549#Comment_117759549

If they're so hated why are the Afghans rolling over for less than 100,000 people?

There is extremely little resistance to them. Why?

BTW, I never mentioned "popular".

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759180#Comment_117759180

Wonder what he will have to say if he is still there next week???

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759571#Comment_117759571

There are still military and other repatriation flights.

https://twitter.com/HenryHo23282369/status/1427017327376146437

Remember a lot of people face retaliation and naturally want to get out.

Kermit.de.frog

All commercial flights now suspended to/from Kabul. US troops trying to restore order at the airport according to the media. Military flights continuing however.

This is a clusterf*ck of gigantic proportions.

Once US withdrawal was announced, this was a direct signal for the Taliban to commence the offence they must have known was, at some point, going to happen.

How the US have catastrophically failed to organize an orderly exit from Afghanistan is beyond me - and this is true whether you are in favour or against US presence in the country. Biden's haphazard approach, and ignoring his own military advisors, only adds to this ridiculous state of affairs.

This kind of event also serves to embolden Trump - and, if anything, makes Trump appear more organized and sensible. Which is quite something, when you think about it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759445#Comment_117759445

Yes, and in a large part the population increase was due to American investing billions in the infrastructure,,,better hospitals and medical care meant better survival rates , ( especially when it came to infant mortality, which was horrendous.} better roads meant that remote rural areas could access medical care in the city hospitals, plus numerous clinics were established countrywide.

cruizer101

Couple of tweets from a girl trying to flee. Feel terrible for all the poor citizens who just want to lead a normal life. Really don't know what the solution is for it as a country.

https://twitter.com/AishaTaIks/status/1426761407232712705

https://twitter.com/AishaTaIks/status/1427005466710847495

https://twitter.com/AishaTaIks/status/1427006712737898500

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759619#Comment_117759619

This is nonsense.

It was Trump who wanted out of Afghanistan in the first place. It was Trump who signed the deal with the Taliban. It was Trump who would have had this happen in May, instead of August.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759630#Comment_117759630

This kind of disorganized withdrawal is not justified - irrespective of whether it's under Trump or Biden.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759633#Comment_117759633

It would have happened like this no matter who was in the Whitehouse.

The problem is that when the Taliban smelt victory they kept on going. Passing from one rural area to the next where US presence was nil. Most foreign presence is centred in the urban areas. As more and more of the country tipped over to the Taliban, the panic set in and we are where we are now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759575#Comment_117759575

They didn't exactly enjoy life under the corrupt leadership of the warlords either.

Some posters want us to pretend that the now overthrown puppet, collaborator regime in Kabul was organic, democratic, an expression of the will of the people. This is a lie. It was a theatrical propaganda event overseen by an 'Independent Election Commission' (wink, wink) with plenty of interference from the U.S. (Dem Party MIC ghoul John Kerry was at the forefront, all in the interests of preventing fraud, apparently). Now many of the collaborators have been abandoned to their fate. This isn't surprising; the Pentagon doesn't care that 20+ military vets kill themselves every day, so why would they care about some Afghanis that were stupid and naive enough to work with them? Effin' sickening stuff all round.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759645#Comment_117759645

Speaking of Donald Trump, he has recently released this statement about today's events:

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1427014285364973570

archer22

Oh well at least the Afghans can celebrate their weddings now without some fatso in a gaming chair at the pentagon droning it before taking a break for his big mac.

And America and Britain can console themselves by sailing their obsolete old warships around the South China Sea...and pray that the Chinese continue taking pity on them and don't decide to sink the whole lot as a final humiliation 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759629#Comment_117759629

Heartbreaking stuff. Awful. Hopefully she can get out somehow.

Jeff2

Aljazeera site updates on what is going on every so often.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/15/taliban-continues-advances-captures-key-city-of-jalalabad

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759675#Comment_117759675

Yeah. It's horrible to read stuff like that. Listening to an ex translator on the One o'Clock news today was hard too.

The Pakistanis must be laughing their arses off.. another malign influence in Afghanistan.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759657#Comment_117759657

Himself and Biden both deserve a lot of blame for this. George W deserves more though for invasions without a strategy. What a waste of lives.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759694#Comment_117759694

Only anecdotal of course, but I was speaking to two Pakistani friends of mine (who live in Pakistan), who you'd think are moderates - both of whom are delighted that the Taliban are back in power in Afghanistan.

Their support for the Taliban is two-fold; first, the strict adherence to Islam and, second, the anti-US nature of their approach.

Most of the Muslim world view the Taliban not as extremists, but as simply strict adherents to the true religion. So, they have a what's the problem; kind of approach. Most Muslim-majority countries offer a version of Sharia anyway, so what's the problem if the Taliban are just slightly more strict? You get the idea. Anything is better than a US-backed government etc.

Both of these friends are against ISIS and Al Qaeda, but have no problem whatsoever with the Taliban.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759651#Comment_117759651

The Afghans probably haven't "enjoyed" life under leadership of the past 40 years. But the Taliban can point to its leaders and say that "these are your guys" to ordinary people. The likes of Akundzada or Baradar were born in Afghanistan and the former is hailed as the guy who kicked out the Russians and will no doubt be hailed as the guy who kicked out the Americans too.

Compared with Russian or American backed puppets, it's easy to understand why the Taliban are gaining so much easy ground in the country.

Agreed on W deserving more blame. His reinvention as a likeable old chap that loves to paint is pretty sickening. That whole family is creepy as fook, going back generations.

But wasn't there a plan laid out by Rumsfeld and Cheney and Wolfowitz before the invasion and before 9/11? 'Project For A New American Century,' IIRC.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759518#Comment_117759518

Thats a good description of it.....leave the Cities, and you travel back in time. especially in terms of how thinking has not changed. Vast regions dont have any population, and any populations that do exist are grouped around water supplies, generally rivers or well's. But travel and transport has improved...motorcycles being the most popular, but 4 x 4's and heavy trucks are now a common sight, even in the most rural places. Generators are still the main suppliers of electricity, and computers are increasingly being used, albeit not in large Nrs. A lot of the younger rural dwellers who have spent time in the cities, working and then returning home are bringing some modernisation with them..early days yet, but its an improvement. But easy to see how a relatively small nr of heavily armed Taliban travelling in convoys could take vast areas of the countryside in a short time un-apposed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759718#Comment_117759718

Someone was complaining on Al Jazeera earlier about the open support some Pakistani politicians have been showing for the Taliban.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759723#Comment_117759723

Indeed.

People shouldn't be surprised the Afghan Government and military imploded too. The manner in which the US Government approached the negotiations with the Taliban was shocking in regards their treatment of their allies during the whole process. The Afghan Government were locked out of the negotiations, they weren't consulted on the withdrawal of military personnel and the US military abandoned the likes of Bagram airbase without even notifying the ANA or Afghan Government. The US Government promised to continue providing air support and special forces assistance, but that commitment was watered down in the last few weeks. Is it any wonder the Afghan Government and military just melted away given the fact that they were utterly abandoned by their allies? Why keep fighting? Their entire training over the last two decades was built around the concept of continuing to receive co-operation and support from the US military. Then the rug was pulled from beneath them at the final moment. Yes, that support was meant to be wound down over time but it was never meant to be ended abruptly as has now happened.

Yes, Trump oversaw the negotiations with the Taliban but Biden followed through with the shameful treatment of his allies. The whole thing has been an utter disgrace.

I also don't buy this 'if not now, when?' argument. The US continues to have a military presence the world over to safeguard their interests and bolster their allies. Look at Germany post-WW2 and South Korea today. The US embarked on a nation building exercise in Afghanistan. Whether that was right or wrong is a whole other debate, but the fact is they embarked on the process and that process takes decades. They got fed up with their project and decided to abandon their allies, leaving many, many Afghan nationals in danger who they convinced to join in their nation building exercise. A shameful moment in US history which won't be forgotten by their allies the world over.