US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774210#Comment_117774210

Well as to who supported them during their 20 year exile, we can see now who are publicly declaring for them...China, Russia, Pakistan, Qatar, and any others who wanted to give the US a black eye.These were the states who kept them going, and not a massive % of Afghans. In my years there, I have never met even one Afghan either then or now, who had anything good to say about them, and as for the Womens view.....they were a murderous bunch of thugs. When they ( even 3-4 of them ) entered the Bazaar, normal conversation would stop, people would become very deferential, and just melt away. Every city and town had a sports field ( but no sports) and no one wanted to give the Talibs any reason to be taken there. For sure, there was no major support for them in Afghanistan. The failure of the defense forces to defend Afghanistan has been explained here by several posters, so I'm not going into that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774497#Comment_117774497

Fair play to them. We're like brothers us and the U.K... brothers that don't really like each other, but family nonetheless. And yes we do have to start taking security more seriously and looking to maximize our capabilities so that we don't have to depend on others. As this week shows things can change extremely quickly and we could very easily be left in a situation where 'de brudder' is too preoccupied and overstretched to help us.

What worries me about this kind of talk though, is that it could end up with Ireland in NATO or some other military grouping, as a low effort way to increase 'our' military capabilities. That would introduce something new to modern Irish life that many, many countries are familiar with --sending our poor off to distant lands to fight even poorer people.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774532#Comment_117774532

But ironically, those 20 years of education, might be the very thing which will take Afghanistan into a better and Taliban free future.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774576#Comment_117774576

Hopefully!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774531#Comment_117774531

They should have ripped Trump a new one on stuff that matters (not fifth-hand talking points from second-rate U.S. TV talking heads, the Atlantic Council, the NYT, or the embassy). The Trump admin didn't ease up on the militarism in the ME and beyond, it simply stopped publishing numbers on drone strikes. How's that for transparency? No mercy for Dems or Repubs, IMO, it just so happens that the Irish media has taken a side in domestic U.S. affairs and everything is skewed accordingly, including the criticism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774556#Comment_117774556

Just do an Iceland, and stick a NATO base or 2 here, without any real commitment and get a civil air patrol too.... (although the RAF are pretty much doing that already)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774514#Comment_117774514

If you actually believe there was ZERO crime and unemployment before then it's you who has fallen for "twisted" news.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774706#Comment_117774706

They are a hardy bunch in Iceland, Cod War veterans :D

At the very least we should invest in the ability to retrieve Irish people overseas. We can do that as neutral country; in fact, our neutrality/lack of militarism would be a good thing on the diplomatic side during such operations.

"we're gonna need our best to get these people outa here..... send in Daniel O'Donnell"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774888#Comment_117774888

Dermot Keely, former head leg breaker at Shamrock Rovers would be a good call too. And the Ghost of Lugs Brannigan.

Joking aside, our military people are competent. They just lack resources. (And they aren't paid enough for what they do, so a lot of talent is lost to the private sector.)

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774554#Comment_117774554

Well Pakistan for definite would have been channelling support to them, that's for sure. However, I'm talking on the ground support and that definitely came from people in the rural areas of Afghanistan. They simply just wouldn't be able to operate without it. If they were as hated as you suggest everywhere, everyone in the entire country would have been informing on them left, right and centre and they would have been crushed.

Into the bargain, the Taliban increased their rank with numbers of Afghans from the rural areas. Angry young men pissed off with the glaring inequality that was happening in the country would be farming for certain times of the year, then joining the Taliban for the rest of it. Outside of cities and towns, it's an entirely different world.

This is a good article to have a look at.

https://globalsecurityreview.com/inequality-dangerous-rural-urban-divide-afghanistan/

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774514#Comment_117774514

And what did the American invasion of Afghanistan actually achieve?

Well, one thing it definitely did was restart poppy farming. The Taliban had actually banned it in the 90's. It'll be interesting to see whether they'll place a ban on it again.

MadYaker

Reading some articles a lot of media institutions seem almost disappointed that the Taliban haven’t started a reign of terror with public executions etc etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774960#Comment_117774960

I'm always cynical about the media but things haven't escalated as quick as some would like. This will affect the ability of the story to capture people's minds, ultimately driving down profit and viewership

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774532#Comment_117774532

And I think there's a good chance they'll keep their side of the bargain. Even though the initial version of the Taliban harboured Bin Laden, they didn't seem to have the same enthusiasm as him for 'global jihad'. And now they are fully aware of the risks of 'poking the bear'. 'Islamism in one country' will likely be their watchword.

Sudden Valley

I don't think long term Biden's mistake will come back to haunt him next election. It is a fiasco but as long as the Taliban don't take hostages and they desperately seem to be restraining themselves until the yanks are fully gone, I think he will weather this storm.

I think if the US and UK had to take a huge amount of the refugees arising from their wars they wouldn't get involved in as many, it would too unpopular back home!

smurfjed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774825#Comment_117774825

And how exactly do you think that the IDF could retrieve people from anywhere in the world ? What resources would they need to achieve your goal, and more importantly who is going to pay for these resources ?

smurfjed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774948#Comment_117774948

Do they have any other type of foreign income?

we keep hearing about the natural resources in the country, but is there and real industry attempting to mine these resources?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775284#Comment_117775284

If there even is a 'next election' for him...

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774332#Comment_117774332

It's a word people write to signal that they're a bell-end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775313#Comment_117775313

In this case, all we would need is a passenger plane. The number of flights Aer Lingus and Ryanair are making is down. That means plane hours are available. We'd need people capable of flying a plane to Kabul opening its doors for a while and flying back. Not sure we would even need the military, but I would bring some with peace-keeping experience just in case.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774932#Comment_117774932

There's a lot of truth in that article, especially the issues of poverty and the unequal rural /urban divide. Any links the rural Afghans would have with the Taliban would have been along "business lines"..and not a shared belief or support for the Taliban version of Islam or Taliban rule. I was in the poppy growing areas, and often, ( too often) it was the case of poppy cultivation, or starve. And the Taliban played a big part in this. But I would not call this as being universal support for the Taliban. It was nothing personal, just business.And if economic circumstances allowed, and the people had choices, this business would come to a stop. Now we will see what position the Taliban will take regarding poppy production. But aside from the poppy issue, last time round, they ran the Country into the ground....to the extent that nothing worked. Will this time be any different ???? And will the levels of corruption stay the same, or get worse??? They're finished with the easy part...

If, ( and its a pretty big IF ) the new reformed Taliban 2 behaves as promised, it could be a good thing for Afghanistan. A single unifying entity, controlling all the different factions, and co-ordinating building a new and modern Afghanistan. Now that would be something else!!!

How do people feel this will affect everything else?

For me America is clearly retreating from the world, not just because of this event but the general direction they have taken over the last decade and a half, it's been happening since the Obama years, through Trump and now Biden.

I know most people hate American wars etc. but in overall terms I think they've helped keep the world stable. We are probably entering a much more unstable world. My worst fear is the Europeans who are desperate for a European army will increasingly get their way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775383#Comment_117775383

What were you doing there? Can you say?

Working, charity work, how long were you there? Excuse all the questions, just unusual to come across someone who has spent time there...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775386#Comment_117775386

I think Bush the Lesser and the War on Terror was the turning point in recent hsitory, 'with us or against us' is an overly simplistic demand to make of the rest of the world. It's not just about the decline of U.S. as global police. The rise of China, India and others changes the game completely, regardless of what the U.S. does.

Globalization has been a great equalizer for people in those countries. By the same token, it means that the superpower game is no longer one of technological superiority, but of numbers... and China and India win that one hands down. A third of humanity lives in those two countries alone, last time I looked.

The future looks good for opportunistic regimes, the weapons industry, giant corporations, and the banks. Not so sure about the rest of us.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775408#Comment_117775408

Natural Disaster's, Earthquake's, Famine etc. and Conflict response. 4.5 years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775590#Comment_117775590

Fair play 👍

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775386#Comment_117775386

Giving my 2 cents..

NATO may not survive this decade in its current form. It is another Trump style Republican president (and potential exposure as impotent without the US in face of a crisis) away from failure IMO. The growing US contempt for and disregard of security needs of the European clients (even the UK which always does as told) observed under Trump is reduced somewhat under Biden as he says nice things in public, but still remains underneath I feel. The European countries even as a collective have a much smaller economic and military power than the US and their populations will fall rapidly this century unless replaced by more ME/African migrants (who are more likely to politically destablise Europe and create even bigger problems). So the Euoprean countries (incl the larger ones like France, UK, Germany) will weaken in the future relative to the rest of the world, and their pretense of sovereignty as regards foreign policy, military etc. could be exposed by events

If US is under their next Trump style president...can they be depended on to intervene with their military if, for example, Russia launched some sort of action to recover control of former "SSRs" in the Baltic states who most Americans have never heard of, or Turkey tried to unify Cyprus or occupied an outlying Greek island? My faith is shaken somewhat. I doubt that I, insignificant Irish random person, is the only one thinking about it. I'm sure leaders around the EU are beginning to reassess these articles of faith + asking what does it mean for their own security/defense in a world where full US support to extent of committing their military if they are threatened may not be guaranteed. That would seem to me to require more co-operation among them (to share burden/costs of the military and have outline of an EU "common foreign policy") but there are alot of hurdles in the way of that.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775321#Comment_117775321

Apparently, mineral and gas wise, its a very rich country. In terms of Lithium, it's comparable with oil in Saudi Arabia. Historically, it has been a very restless Country, with different factions and clans fighting each other. But now, as can be seen by the new friendships between Iran, China and Russia, there will be lots of competition to get access to these, with the Taliban guaranteeing the peace.

smurfjed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775363#Comment_117775363

I wonder what the EI/FR insurer broker would say when they requested to fly to a war zone. Isn’t it much easier to ask the UK who happen to have dedicated military transportation squadrons.