Interesting articles

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728351#Comment_120728351

Socialist does not like NATO, who would have guessed that..

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728695#Comment_120728695

Or the rest of the "West", or the Defence Forces it seems? But has he overstepped his office in jumping into the topic?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728697#Comment_120728697

100%.

The creation and evolution of foreign and defence policy is the preserve of the elected Government of the day. Unambiguously.

Policy is created at Ministerial level, at Government level or at Oireachtas level, by those commanding a majority.

You asked earlier was I really surprised at his comments given his past affiliations and allegiances and the position of his wife on certain matters.

Yes, I am.

1) He is not his wife. Nobody elected her to anything, she is as entitled to her view as any of us. If somebody wants to publish that view, it makes no difference to anything.

2) Higgins is a former cabinet minister in Governments who dealt with the limitations of the office of President. As well as that he has been in office for almost 12 years, he knows the feckin score from every side, maybe better than any other Irish person alive. He gets no excuses.

3) He can't have given this interview without knowing the gravity of it. It's not just comment reflecting social change or the voice of the people, it is conflict with evolving Government policy, its a head on collision with the executive and the legislature.

It's so bad actually, that I wonder is it some sort of suicide play, to leave the Áras 28 months early and retire with no further duties, yet having made a huge and controversial name for himself which will affect constitutional law discussion for years.

I keep re-reading the article. I genuinely think he is toast.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728691#Comment_120728691

It's not 1949....it's not even 1999. we'd be a burden to them and would be unwanted right now.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729490#Comment_120729490

Russia is no threat to us and as recently as the early 2010s their warships visited Cobh.

Yes they are an agressor. No they are not a direct threat to Ireland worth becoming non neutral for.

The UK has never had to intercept a missile or fire on an threat on behalf of Ireland and I cannot see them needing to in any version of the near future.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729813#Comment_120729813

It was a russian cyber criminal collective that did the HSE hack...and if you think those groups have no connections to offical russia I have a bridge in Crimea to sell.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730036#Comment_120730036

Act now, time limited offer…

sparky42

Some response from government to the presidents article:

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/06/18/tanaiste-strongly-defends-neutrality-debates-following-criticism-by-president/

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-micheal-martin-strongly-rebuffs-comments-by-president-michael-d-higgins-on-military-neutrality-and-drift-into-nato/a255334157.html

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0618/1389808-ireland-politics/

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730036#Comment_120730036

l won’t harp on, I’ve made my point and this thread is super with the interesting links.

The HSE using outdated software painted a target on their own back given the importance of that data - of course nobody should be hacking them and committing crimes but lacking a robust and up to date security system is not a reason to step away from neutrality.

Thanks for the chat lads!

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730375#Comment_120730375

Great pics.

I'm always amused that people don't think it was odd the russians wanted to build a completely over scaled underground facility under their embassy as if everyone had one.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730375#Comment_120730375

Nice Photos. Thanks for sharing. I don't see an issue with their people meeting, sure Shannon is a transit hub for the US military. As for the ships being open to the public - Pretty standard practice for most navies. Even if you would be let on it would be a walk around the deck and maybe the bridge. Although I suspect the Russians would be wanting to not show the state/mess of it unlike the US Navy who would not want you to see the tech!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730377#Comment_120730377

Next time you head out leave your house doors and windows open then. The crime was committed and as I said the criminals were wrong. The HSE were beyond foolish with their security though. They were an easy target(for whoever targeted them) is the point I was trying to make. Has a link with the Russian government ever actually been established?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730403#Comment_120730403

Or the fact that we have more personnel assigned to Dublin than nations multiple times our size, or ones they do a lot more trade with… I loved their excuse that it was all just going to be short term accommodation for staff transmitting through Dublin.

sparky42

I wonder if anyone would put it to the President or any of the Left screaming about "NATO and Militarism", if they are against us working (being completely dependent on) with NATO nations, and against increasing the capabilities of the DF (cause that's wrong somehow), what answer will they give to Irish citizens stuck where ever the next time a nation implodes?

"Sorry love, you can't get on a NATO airplane, they are too imperialist don't you know. I'm sure you will be fine with the Taliban..."

thomas 123

With the Irish naval service people are generally given a walk around the deck, up one bridge wing, through the bridge and down the other wing and off the gangway again - unless things have changed in the last 10 years.

Im sorry they didn’t let you on but the nature of their visit is irrelevant to our nutrality really.

sparky42

An article out at 6pm on a Sunday… I wonder what might have already been said to the President?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-41164870.html

thomas 123

I’ve only been polite to you, all you have done is capitalize buzz words in an effort to discredit me. You keep harping on about one ships visit as if they launched ballistic missiles at cork city. They did, or at least did not get caught, doing anything illegal.

Have a lovely evening mate - no offense intended tone wise.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731528#Comment_120731528

I doubt it, I mean how many people that age actually change positions on much? I mean apart from the comments about the forum (and isn’t it interesting that he had a similar attack on the chairwoman that PBP and co came up with when she was announced), and to me either the lack of awareness in the panel members or the dishonest framing of them? And then on top of things taking a cheap shot on the investment in the DF. Given how the Gardaí for example have had issues in the past would he argue the same against investment in them? And I see Senator Clonal also jumped to the attack on the panelists until he deleted the tweet…

Larbre34

MMs article there is just a slightly reworked version of a statement he released through the DoFA just after lunch.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731993#Comment_120731993

Perhaps, I didn’t see that, but still to push it out in the examiner tonight and perhaps in the paper itself tomorrow is a bit of a quick reaction. Looks like the Government has decided not to try picking a fight publicly with the President but who knows what was said privately. However I think we can all bet that this may not be the last interjection on the subject from the President.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2023/0618/1389872-ireland-neutrality-president/

RavenP

The president is sort of right, although he may be exceeding his role, or at the very least pushing it to the maximum of its envelope. The Irish people want Ireland to stay militarily non-aligned. Doubtless the politicians, used to rubbing shoulders with the leaders of the west, would desire otherwise, but as the IT poll showed yesterday, the Irish people value neutrality. The IT also showed however, that the Irish people want an armed neutrality, where we only make arrangements with other powers based on our interests, from a position of strength. Where the president is wrong is in suggesting that cultural change must come before enhanced capacity in the DF. That would be a terrible mistake. Both must hapen in parallell, but there is no time to waste securing ourselves in a troubled world. I also, like the president, am a little suspicious that the person who is to chair of the Consultative Forum, is a little to "in" with the Americans and the British, a Dame ffs.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120733058#Comment_120733058

Moreover it was a cheap shot against someone he knows can’t openly defend themselves, as Cathal Berry said this morning I would hope he would have the decency to apologise but I doubt it. Wonder does he share the same view of anyone else that has received any awards from the U.K.? Maybe next time he’s meeting Charles he can complain to him about it?

And yes the average Irish voter doesn’t have a clue about what “neutrality” means or how other nations enforce it.

RavenP

I think that Irish people have an instinctive understanding of neutrality, and it means not being in NATO, and letting Irish interests determine foreign and security policy. Most people in any country will have no deeper an understanding than that. Regarding Prof Richardson, she is very much an establishment character of the west. I believe that she will want Ireland as close to NATO and the western alliance as is politically possible. I think her outspoken intervention in the Scottish independence debate during the referendum campaign shows that first and foremost she is a company woman doing her job for the establishment, despite whatever left liberal causes she claims to espouse. I do not have confidence that her chairmanship of this board will help get what really need, a secure strong Ireland that operates and positions itself for, by and on behalf of the Irish people. We need to be just as close to the west as we need to be and no closer, because otherwise we are working for them and not us.

I spent the first half of my life a British citizen, I am an oul prod fre the north, but in the second half of my life embraced my Irishness (part marring across and living and working in RoI) but I know the U.K. honours system. Firstly it is very political, her Scottish intervention is why she got it, no doubt about it IMHO and also loads of people turn down honours, including many people who might surprise you, lots of people on the centre left to left and republicans, big and small R. This is not just SF stuff, a former SDLP leader, Brid Rodgers was expelled from the party for accepting a “gong”. It is not really the done thing unless you are a real west Brit. We need a clear, patriotic, yes small r republican, to chair that committee.

sparky42

The President has apologised for his comment on Professor Richardson:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0619/1389917-neutrality-ireland/

RavenP

politically he had to probably, but his original assessment has merit.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120734380#Comment_120734380

Not really, full of cheap shots and lazy thinking, but pretty much standard for those of that political alignment.

Hotblack Desiato

1) He is not his wife. Nobody elected her to anything, she is as entitled to her view as any of us. If somebody wants to publish that view, it makes no difference to anything.

The thing is, the average Joe or Jane isn't likely to get their hot take / brain fart plastered all over all of the newspapers in the country, and they're certainly not going to have it published on the President's official website. So this argument doesn't stand up I'm afraid. Like it or not, her actions reflect on Higgins' presidency and not in a good way.

RavenP

I aM specifically referring to his view on the chairperson, not his wider statement which is a bit woolly.

jonnybigwallet

I don't know why that fella got elected in the first place. I mean....for God's sake, he's supposed to be supreme commander of the Army, Navy, and Air Corps. When ya see him inspectin an honour guard sure he looks like a little leprechaun. Not the stuff Zelensky is made of! We need a man of more stature in the job. Somebody along the lines of Charles de Gaulle who can reflect the status of the nation a bit better.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120735514#Comment_120735514

His comment about her causes massive problems for him, regardless of any apology.

1) She got the Damehood for services to education, specifically working to gain better access for underprivileged kids to third level. This shows Michael D wasn't on top of his subject here and undermines the whole interjection.

2) The nature of his comments on some of the contributors, including The Chair, do not demonstrate the opinion of a person inclined to value open debate, or a fair hearing, or free speech generally. It's not a great look for someone with Michael D's long history in public discourse, principled stances etc. It makes him look petulant and closed minded.

Mind you, I have heard from a few sources close to the President's Office that he is becoming quite ornery and frustrated in his old age and now late into his second term. It may be that he is no longer able for both the demands and the limitations of this very busy but narrow role. Perhaps it would be better if he resigned and a place holder was installed by agreement of the Oireachtas until the election of 2025. Someone like Susan Denham or Catherine Day would be a fine choice.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120736239#Comment_120736239

If he resigns we have a new election, just as we did when Mary Robinson went early.