Interesting articles

jonnybigwallet

The navy needs a couple of corvettes with ASW capability.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553607#Comment_119553607

With the explanation being?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551744#Comment_119551744

Because the Irish Defence Forces didn't see it, because they cannot see it.

Can't bollock an Ambassador with absolutely zero proof, other than a mobile phone camera on a beach.

Dohvolle is probably right, but optical illusion or not, its some sort of large vessel and the profile looks military, not merchant.

In any event, these 295s cannot go into operation quickly enough.

roadmaster

The article below I think was really written by the GOC the Defence Forces

https://villagemagazine.ie/the-state-is-abdicating-responsibility-for-national-defence-by-gerard-humphreys/

Larbre34

I wouldn't think Clancy would be putting his hand up to claim such a poor article as his own.

I know its a periodical rather than a newspaper, but even still, it rambled and examined the irrelevant.

Larbre34

In basic terms, no. But the article made zero references to the CoD and decisions already made for significant expansion of numbers and kit. It is at least his responsibility to inform people who know nothing about it, and I'd suggest many 'Village' readers could fit that description.

I think he's also wrong about the necessity for Coastguard aviation to be a DF function too.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573086#Comment_119573086

By listing three alternative scenarios, the Commission has perhaps inadvertently created the impression that any of the three Levels would be an equally valid choice.

Only among the terminally stupid

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573836#Comment_119573836

Well we are talking about defence matters to Irish voters and politicians… Always bet on stupid.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574421#Comment_119574421

fair point

Larbre34

I did indeed miss that bit on the basis of TLDR or TBDR.

jonnybigwallet

Surprised nowt on the DF twitter page about this exercise. Would be interesting to see which LE was part of the task force and a bit of detail about the Air Corps activities. IE. Did they use the P12's.

roadmaster

Jonny your getting your PCs mixed up it’s the PC9 that’s used now for Martime Missions that’s why they got the extra fuel tanks!!

jonnybigwallet

Weird. I thought them PC12s were carrying some fairly up to date ISTAR equipment on board, useful surely....I mean it's not likely to turn into a shooting match is it?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580878#Comment_119580878

Single engine prop operations over the ocean are too risky and the range of the PC12 is less than half of even the current CASAs. They are an overland and coastal ISTAR asset, at best.

Also, it wasn't a 'Task Force', it was a Royal Navy / NATO squadron of Frigates with long range surveillance aircraft covering the top, and there might have been an Irish ship larking about in the general area too - probably with a Russian SSN cruising underneath her hull, using her as camouflage against the NATO detection assets.

jonnybigwallet

Hmm. Wonder if the PC12s can accommodate drop tanks? Imagine they can.

Larbre34

Jesus wept.

jonnybigwallet

No need to throw your toys out of your pram. We're not all experts like you!

Larbre34

You don't even try. You just talk shyte. Like a troll.

roadmaster

We all know Jonny is actually an Assistant Secretary in the DOD just having a laugh between his tea breaks

jonnybigwallet

On the contrary. I'm a retired admiral in the Swiss navy!

jonnybigwallet

Ya know...I think that poor divil has a bit of an exaggerated sense of his own importance. No sense of humour and completely dismissive of anyone who has a bit of a different opinion. God love him. Sure he probably wishes he was a general!

roadmaster

Oh Deer Looks like 112 may have to keep flying south for another while

we could see the HSE panic yet and end up with a139 in kilworth

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/0906/1320961-hse-helicopter-contract/

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586092#Comment_119586092

that would explain why he knows so little.

jonnybigwallet

I wasn't aware that you had contributed any Pearls of wisdom to this discussion....

roadmaster

State of the Art Radar System! Are primary radars off the shelf or is there a lead In time like our recent aircraft purchases?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/9384410/budget-simon-coveney-defence-forces-cost-of-living/

Larbre34

Nothing like that is sitting on a shelf waiting for customers, but there are obviously well proven systems available from active manufacturers, subject to parameter surveys which are probably either underway or done.

The lead time will depend on orders on hand and supply chain of components, which are well known to be troublesome in the electronics sector just now, so how long is a piece of string really.

Whether it would be worth while getting in tactical mobile units from our partners in Europe to fill the gap in the meantime is debatable but it must surely be a live issue for the DoD and DF.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632157#Comment_119632157

I'd presume they would be co located with many the IAAs stations at Mount Gabierl and Malin as the main infrastructure is already in place. Planning would probably come under Part 8

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633240#Comment_119633240

No, Part 8 is a particular classification of project to be delivered by a County Council itself for municipal purposes.

If I understand it correctly, Section 30 (a) of the Defence Act exempts the Minister for Defence from needing planning permission for pretty much all defence installations and other Sections cover compulsory acquisition of lands for defence needs.

However, if as suggested, primary military radar will end up joining existing civil installation sites, I think a hybrid of regular planning permission and Aviation legislation provisions will cover it.

roadmaster

I see on the DF facebook page more amercians over with the army this time teaching Javlin tactics. Seams to be a lot of co op lately

Larbre34

With the serve the Taoiseach gave the Russians at the UN last night, its probably no harm!

Larbre34

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2022/09/23/spying-and-right-wing-extremism-listed-among-main-national-security-threats-to-ireland/

**********

roadmaster

New Ships,Armour and jets! The headline below but not a lot of detail. 46 million for armour i presume for that cash where talking RG32 replacement and not extra mowags

https://www.thesun.ie/news/9471175/budget-2023-inside-defence-forces-billions-war-chest/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669493#Comment_119669493

The Mowags are coming up towards the start of their replacement project, I can't see any new hulls being ordered. Frankly I'd wait and see, I get the feeling the Sun might have the wrong numbers or adding the existing planned Capital spend in the five year plan and new funding together.

Larbre34

Yeah undoubtedly the Defence estimate will already include previously planned capex

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671314#Comment_119671314

Yeah, its an extra €67 million for Current spending (pay, recruitment) and an extra €35 million for Capital spending (making up the €175 million the Sun was talking about), references to Radar systems in the speech so that almost has to be the next project to start procurement.

Larbre34

So thats, what, ~6.5% increase in current spending against 8-9% inflation?

I know that rate of inflation won't fully transpose into the Defence sector, but it is good to note a separate allocation for pay and pensions that will hopefully make a dent in lower pay.

If we take it that Defence (in the corporate sense) needs to vastly improve its capacity, to improve its capability, then it would be also good to see the organisational changes progressed in 2023 to reflect the serious of commitment by the Govt.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671411#Comment_119671411

Yeah it's about that level of an increase, tiny compared to what we are seeing in virtually every other European nation but sadly likely to be one of the largest one of jumps ever for Irish defence spending. €67 million is low for current increases given the Retention crisis, but maybe the other cost of living adjustments could help more broadly there?

roadmaster

Are they inculding the Kiwi ships as extra vessels?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672639#Comment_119672639

Doesn’t stop “creative accounting” tricks…

roadmaster

The 4 Naval Reserve boats but they are probally taken account in last years budget. Its going to be suprise!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672687#Comment_119672687

An order for the MRV crawls out of Procurement hell? I won’t hold my breath.

roadmaster

Any funds for Aircraft, Radar systems and vessels at this stage would probably be depoists as the equipment would probaly have a min of 18 mths lead in time

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672974#Comment_119672974

Be a fair bit longer in the current supply chain crisis I daresay.

Planes 2 to 3 years, Ships 3 to 4 years, radar systems, no idea, depends how much of that stuff is OTS. Probably not much.

roadmaster

Maybe the suprise is we are getting the P8 that is currently flying up the West Coast

roadmaster

According to the times the Air Corps ate to get several piper training Aircraft What does that mean for the PC9s?

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/09/27/defence-spending-military-radar-and-training-aircraft-to-be-acquired/

donvito99

Multi engine training? How do the AC currently do it?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674966#Comment_119674966

CASAs, Learjet, overseas with Britain, USA and Australia.

Its a most curious comment by the Times.

A) what possible need could we have for any Piper model that isn't already covered by an equivalent in the fleet?

B) The Air Corps / DF can't just *say* they want a particular model of Aircraft. They have to business case up a requirement for a gap in capability and then put it out to tender. The likes of Pilatus and Dassault would haul them in front of the European Commission in two seconds flat if they tried to go around Procurement rules in such a way.

roadmaster

Here is a wild Optimistic reason they want small trainning aircraft. They are going to dump the Pc9s and use a small aircraft from basic flight training because we are going to get fast jets in the medium term and all trainning will be carried out in the country we buy them from

donvito99

It is a bit odd that all training is done on the PC9, most other air arms have a Grob or Piper in the mix, before moving on to a PC9 equivalent and then ultimately a LIFT.

This could be a way to extend the lives of the PC9 (would make sense to DoD) - certain amount of early hours done on a basic trainer, the remainder done on the PC9 and then there's your wings.

jonnybigwallet

It seems pretty illogical to me as well. Surely it would make more sense to acquire a similar number of basic jet aircraft such as the L39 NG ? Why a mixed fleet of prop driven basic trainers? Does the article indicate the number of airframes being acquired?