Should NPHET be disbanded ?

secman

secman wrote: »

We should obviously disband it, we have a good cross selection of Publicans, Hoteliers, Restaurant owners, Airline owners to replace them with. These people have all the answers............ i jest and laugh at the notion

Well it's just as ridiculous as a bunch of admins from the "fantastically well run" HSE knowing everything about every aspect of the economy and society ! Balance is needed.

Pwindedd

Pwindedd wrote: »

To clarify on my yes. I feel a board of advisors from a cross section of life such as economists, psychologists, social welfare experts etc. should replace it. Edit: as well as health, virology experts of course.
There should be no leader of this new board. A regular report can be compiled for government to aid their decisions. Meeting minutes should be made public and no member is permitted to use social media to advance or publicise their personal views. This is no longer an emergency. Time to manage and develop how we live with this.

You do realize that NPHET only deals with public health from a medical point of view and are not the only expert advisors to government?

Why would be have experts on economics and other non related areas included? Should we have doctors included on the financial side?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well it's just as ridiculous as a bunch of admins from the "fantastically well run" HSE knowing everything about every aspect of the economy and society ! Balance is needed.

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well alternatively we need a separate panel of those with equal input to any decisions around opening or closing businesses.

We have them. We have expert advisors in pretty much all areas

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

Most of this can't be avoided. The MoH and MoF are involved with the Cabinet sub-committee which filters NHPET advice. That came after the October NPHET event. What they really should not be doing is forcing government policy, that's not their job. It would also be very useful if they could reel in winter predictions before it has been dealt with in government.

Mrcaramelchoc

No definitely not. They are doing a great job imo.
What should be disbanded are the bunch of cretins moaning and bitching about nphet every single day in the comments section of journal.ie

is_that_so

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We have them. We have expert advisors in pretty much all areas

Not as input in NPHET.

Oranage2

We needed other options, so far Nphet have only come up with lockdown and no lockdown. Their phased plan that took them ages to come up with fell apart within days. They implemented travel restrictions too late and now are keeping them closed too long. The track and trace fell apart as soon as we had over 100 cases. I think they've been a complete fail.

What do ye all do yerselves, lads, out of interest

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted Yes, mainly due to the ‘large’ personalities that have wrestled control of the country through NPHET. Their remit was once to flatten the curve and stop the health service being overwhelmed - it’s now become stop anyone ever getting sick with Covid.

However, I would be willing to have them kept on, with some changes.
1. There are far too many members of the HSE, to the point that they can never be an impartial group. Every decision is made with our creaking, mis managed health service in mind. Unfortunately this can’t be used to keep other sectors locked.
2. The Minister for Health should be it’s head and main communicator. There is no need for a CMO or chair to be talking about their feelings in the media.
3. From the point above, make it clear to NPHET members, you’re either a part of NPHET or you’re an ‘expert’ constantly talking to radio, papers and social media (Favier, Nolan & Holohan take note). You can’t be both, far too much grenades being lobbed into the media.
4. The minister for finance should be part of the group. NPHET’s decisions (both right and wrong ones) have meant we have to haemorrhage billions. At the very least the MoF needs to have an input as to what their decisions will lead to.

1) Isn't that part of their remit though ? They can't advise based on the health service we'd like, it can only be based on the one we have.

2) Media are always going to ask questions. How would it look or be perceived if the CMO didn't take questions ? You'd have people on about the cult of secrecy or how they're like the politburo or some other such sh1te.

3) Similar to point 2. I agree their communications have been mostly terrible through the second half of this, but you can't silence them like that. You'll have those affected by their decisions complaining that their businesses are shut and no-one has explained why. Like it or not (and I don't particularly) social media is part of the "game" now.

4) No, he shouldn't. Health advice is health advice. MoF role should be at government level after they have received the medical advice, when government are deciding what to do. Government have to take the other factors into account, not the doctors etc.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

They are not

sameoldname

Getting rid of the problem is hard, let's get rid of the people who tell us about the problem instead!

ballsymchugh

grogi wrote: »

NPHET seems so preoccupied about COVID that forgets about different aspects of public health: cancer and depression to name a few.

their whole point throughout the pandemic is to keep people out of hospitals so that cancer care and other treatment can function as much as possible, where the ICU beds aren't full, and the staff aren't taking time off through illness.

Russman

is_that_so wrote: »

They are de facto, not wholly NPHET's fault though that the government can't get over what happened at Christmas and consider alternative decisions. They are already signalling their recommendations for September and beyond.

Do we know for sure that they didn't though ? I get what you're saying alright, and its certainly the perception, but maybe the government happen to actually agree with NPHET ?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

What do ye all do yerselves, lads, out of interest

Is this where posters are deemed unworthy to judge NPHET? They have made mistakes, not all of them in the public health area but very much in how they communicate and particular in their lack of a grasp of politics.

JDxtra

We need to move forward as a nation. Current NPHET need to tone it down with the doom and gloom(which they won't), or the Government need to balance their advice with everything else (which they also won't).

So maybe they should recycle some of the NPHET members? You know who has probably had enough time at the top anyways.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Again you seem to think that the public health committee is the govt

Whats that about

I don't recall any other committees addressing the nation on a weekly basis? I don't think they are the government. I think the government and opposition have gone missing in action since all this started.

Hurrache

fun loving criminal wrote: »

What is with the hatred towards Nphet?

Usually stupidity.

ednwireland

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

No definitely not. They are doing a great job imo.
What should be disbanded are the bunch of cretins moaning and bitching about nphet every single day in the comments section of journal.ie

we've seen no reduction in covid rates in what 8 + weeks ? please explain what they are doing so well ?

Mimon

seamus wrote: »

Disbanding a National Public Health Emergency Team in the middle of a National Public Health Emergency, is...misguided...to put it very politely.

It's the kind of thing Trump or Bolsonaro would do.

I think it needs to be restructured though and as suggested above have a more balanced membership that will help with looking at the bigger picture.

is_that_so

Russman wrote: »

Do we know for sure that they didn't though ? I get what you're saying alright, and its certainly the perception, but maybe the government happen to actually agree with NPHET ?

There are different factions in there and not on party lines, the MM wing do and will agree outright to do what they say, the Leo wing not so much. The latter do have a sense of grievance that NHPET are messing with government plans and the forced backtracking and lack of communication annoys them a lot more.

Ficheall

Silentcorner wrote: »

Jesus can we keep Trump and Balsanero out of this thread, only the truly brainwashed would even consider them relevant to us.

Nphet will never allow society to fully reopen, that much is clear, and it's up to the politicians then to decide whether they wish to go along with that or not.

Calling other people truly brainwashed in one sentence, and then suggest NPHET will never allow society to reopen in the next. Brilliant.

Russman

Russman wrote: »

1) Isn't that part of their remit though ? They can't advise based on the health service we'd like, it can only be based on the one we have.

Maybe I'm stupid but they are the same people in charge of the health service? They got an extra 4 billion this year and didn't add a single bed to ICU capacity. Surely this should have been the #1 action, especially considering that the ICU capacity is really low by international standards even before COVID, and their models project over 2000 more COVID deaths over the next few months ?

is_that_so

Mimon wrote: »

I think it needs to be restructured though and as suggested above have a more balanced membership that will help with looking at the bigger picture.

TBH all we really need them for now is the modelling and some limited advice. Plans have been set and the pattern of the disease is unlikely to ever push us back to last winter.

crossman47

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't recall any other committees addressing the nation on a weekly basis? I don't think they are the government. I think the government and opposition have gone missing in action since all this started.

They don't address the nation. They hold a press conference. if they didn't, they'd be told they were hiding something and weren't accountable to the media.

grogi

NPHET would want to keep reducing the infection rates until it is zero. Either by completely eradicating the virus from the island or by relying on the vaccines. Both scenarios are not realistic - first because we would need to completely shut the borders, second because sooner or later there will be a new variant that is a bit more successful against vaccination efforts.

COVID is not new. It is not an emergency anymore. And it is here to stay with us. FOREVER. We need plan how to live in future, not how to postpone living. We need changes - changes in how our nursing homes operate, changes how schools operate etc. We need new faces that will tell us how we need to do things we want to do.

We need changes, not prohibition. Without taking personal trips, the current NPHET cannot deliver on that.

grogi

is_that_so wrote: »

TBH all we really need them for now is the modelling and some limited advice. Plans have been set and the pattern of the disease is unlikely to ever push us back to last winter.

Modelling like the last one? No, we don't need that.

Even a broken clock shows correct time twice a day. We don't need advisors that ALWAYS paint a black picture and twice a year come back saying 'told-you-so'.


But I agree - we need good modelling and prediction models.

crossman47

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe I'm stupid but they are the same people in charge of the health service? They got an extra 4 billion this year and didn't add a single bed to ICU capacity. Surely this should have been the #1 action, especially considering that the ICU capacity is really low by international standards even before COVID, and their models project over 2000 more COVID deaths over the next few months ?

They're not in charge of the Health Service. They're advisors on a pandemic. Some of them have a role in running the health service, some have not.

Silentcorner

grogi wrote: »

NPHET would want to keep reducing the infection rates until it is zero.

I think you are spot on....which begs the question, how can so called experts actually believe that is possible, you don't need to be an expert to realise how off the wall that is, yet here we are in the middle of summer still crushing huge industries and small businesses.

I think the fear needs to be at maintained hysterical levels until the winter when the numbers will do that for us...our spend on PCR testing should be stopped, it is costing a fortune and for what?

I don't believe Nphet ever want to see a return to normal, I don't think vaccines will be enough for them...the variants of concern will with us for as long as we obsess about them.