Barcelona Summer 2021 - It's all getting a bit Messi (again) - also featuring Neymar

Agent Coulson

Did you smash it wrote: »

Atletico spent more than half that on Joao Felix and aren’t getting much of a return.

The lesson learnt for Barca was don’t let indispensable assets leave.

9 days after Felix joined Atletico they got €120m of the €126m the paid for Felix from Barca selling them Griezmann.

Barca then decided to pay him 800k a week.

Barca were playing with monopoly money thinking the game will never end now it's time to go to football jail.

Edit: Atletico won the league last season so they got something out of it.

rob316

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Bizarre claim. Ask yourself who has had the better Champions League record since he left, Barca or Neymar.

Why stop there, what's Neymar's personal record is like since he left Barca?

Messi and Suarez got older and couldn't carry that team as much, Neymar was the prince of Barcelona snatched by Qatar to deliver european domination for PSG but hes been underwhelming to say the least. So I disagree with the statement he was irreplaceable, Barca just pissed that money away.

Did you smash it

NITRO95 wrote: »

Neymar is far from indispensable

Barca’s fortunes since he left suggest otherwise.

Barca overspent but the players they bought were players that were being raved about in their own leagues. They just weren’t of that extra quality that a Neymar possesses.

~Rebel~

It's like Barca got superstar withdrawals after losing Neymar - they couldn't just hold tight and wait for the right player, they just ran out and bought the first shiny thing they saw. And then a few months later, they did it again. And then a few months later did it again, despite none of them working out.

And weirdly, despite looking at a Neymar shaped hole, only Dembele brings the asstes that Neymar did. Griezmann being the weirdest choice - incredible player, and probably the second best false 9 in the world. Except Barca can't play him there, because that's Messi's position. So instead he has to play out of his natural position, at huge cost, on huge wages. They were literally the one team that wouldn't get the full benefit of a player like Griezmann...

Neymar's of course a hard player to replace, but Barca went about it in a particularly dumb fashion, going for profile rather than attributes..

Agent Coulson

Did you smash it wrote: »

Barca’s fortunes since he left suggest otherwise.

Barca overspent but the players they bought were players that were being raved about in their own leagues. They just weren’t of that extra quality that a Neymar possesses.

Since he left they won two leagues, two copa del rey's and a spanish supercup in those 4 seasons so they have done alright without him.

I would actually say losing Luis last season was a bigger lose.

pjohnson

Messi and his ridiculusly huge contracts are what bolloxed Barca.

Totally unsustainable.

~Rebel~

pjohnson wrote: »

Messi and his ridiculusly huge contracts are what bolloxed Barca.

I don't think he necessarily is though - he's also their biggest revenue generator and keeps their profile sky-high.

Their problem is all the other deals. If you're paying Messi that much, you need balance elsewhere. But instead they give Griezmann 800k a week. They give De Jong 400k a week. Dembele, Pjanic and Umtiti on around (or over) 200k a week.

Every new signing was getting stupid money, well above what they needed to be offered to get them signed up.

Did you smash it

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't think he necessarily is though - he's also their biggest revenue generator and keeps their profile sky-high.

Their problem is all the other deals. If you're paying Messi that much, you need balance elsewhere. But instead they give Griezmann 800k a week. They give De Jong 400k a week. Dembele, Pjanic and Umtiti on around (or over) 200k a week.

Every new signing was getting stupid money, well above what they needed to be offered to get them signed up.

The problem for me is therefore the sale of Neymar. That doesn’t happen. The rest doesn’t happen.

The winners from the Neymar deal were PSG, Neymar’s da, liverpool and klopp. The losers were Barca and Neymar. It was the deal that changed football.

Did you smash it

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Since he left they won two leagues, two copa del rey's and a spanish supercup in those 4 seasons so they have done alright without him.

I would actually say losing Luis last season was a bigger lose.

Losing Luis didnt cost Barca a CL.

Weepsie

Does anyone remember the BBC documentary on Barca surrounding the 03/04 Season? It's all a bit of history repeating itself and some of the same people on the edges.

Dave0301

Did you smash it wrote: »

The problem for me is therefore the sale of Neymar. That doesn’t happen. The rest doesn’t happen.

You are really overstating the impact of the Neymar transfer.

Barcelona and whoever is running their financials has made a total balls of it. If it was a result of selling a once in a generation player as you are trying to imply there would be lots of other clubs in the same situation.

800k a week for Antoine Griezmann...absolutely ridiculous.

Did you smash it

Did you smash it wrote: »

The problem for me is therefore the sale of Neymar. That doesn’t happen. The rest doesn’t happen.

That's a stretch selling Neymar didn't directly cause the other purchases by your logic the original problem is the signing of Neymar

Did you smash it

Dave0301 wrote: »

800k a week for Antoine Griezmann...absolutely ridiculous.

I don’t know where that 800k a week figure came from. It’s not that high at all. Not even half that.

In any case if Neymar had been kept Griezmann wouldn’t be getting paid a euro to flop at Barca.

ThunbergsAreGo

Did you smash it wrote: »

It’s not really fake superiority. Players especially South Americans all dream of playing for Barca and Real. That’s starting to change but it’s being the case for decades.

No it is, they are not the good guys, they are not more then a club.

They were a club, a badly run dysfunctional club.

Mitch Connor

Did you smash it wrote: »

I don’t know where that 800k a week figure came from. It’s not that high at all. Not even half that.

In any case if Neymar had been kept Griezmann wouldn’t be getting paid a euro to flop at Barca.

What is his wages?

https://fcbarcelonalatestnews.com/fc-barcelona-players-wages/

Says 800k

https://www.sportekz.com/football/barcelona-players-salaries/

Says 380 or something like that but it also says 500+ for Messi in the table, but 1.2m in the body of the story.

Might be some confusion on Net and Gross (player wages are generally reported as Net figures for euro sides)

https://tribuna.com/en/news/fcbarcelona-2021-06-03-barcelona-squad-wages-revealed-messi-1st-pjanic-and-coutinho-in-top-5/

this says near 700k.

~Rebel~

Weepsie wrote: »

Does anyone remember the BBC documentary on Barca surrounding the 03/04 Season? It's all a bit of history repeating itself and some of the same people on the edges.

Do you mean Barcelona Confidential? So good! One of the best football docs I've seen, just how close they were able to get to the story.

I'm sure a lot of Barca fans are hopeful, with having Laporta back in as president now, after he steered the club out of trouble and turned the finances around totally in the time of that doc. For all his positive process changes etc, ultimately a lot of it still came down to luck with transfers. I'm not sure anyone expected Ronaldinho to evolve as he did - and he was only 2nd choice with Beckham the first.

Well worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQPnbML1WFY

As you say, it's amazing some of the figures around the edge of it, lots of them who shaped the game over the past 20 years, like Rossell, and Man City's current CEO Ferran Soriano.


<edit>
Just popped it on again now myself actually, and it's funny to see Laporta taking the same first steps now as he had to all those years ago - just dumping players off the wage bill through sales or loans just to try to get the out-of-control finances in check.

marklazarcovic

Can Barca be bought by a oil group like city /psg

loyatemu

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Can Barca be bought by a oil group like city /psg

don't think so - owned by the members.

when RM get into financial trouble the city generally bails them out by buying some land off them or whatever. I don't know if that's an option for Barca.

It seems bizarre that La Liga can arbitrarily reduce their salary limit when they already have all these players under contract. No wonder they're keen on the SuperLeague when the PL clubs have no such restrictions.

LuckyLloyd

Did you smash it wrote: »

I would repeat that Barca”s troubles are mainly down to allowing Neymar to leave. A player they haven’t replaced because he was irreplaceable. They agreed a transfer release clause too low in his contract.

If Messi was sold last season; fine. But they would have had the same problem of replacing an irreplaceable player. Sell Messi last summer and I’m not sure they’d be in the champions league this season.

Barcelona didn't allow Neymar to leave. Neymar was taken from them. And there was nothing they could do about it. They were bullied.

Agent Coulson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barcelona didn't allow Neymar to leave. Neymar was taken from them. And there was nothing they could do about it. They were bullied.

They got 220 million cash in hand that’s a nice way to bullied

LuckyLloyd

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They got 220 million cash in hand that’s a nice way to bullied

Yeah, they seemed delighted about it.

Did you smash it

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barcelona didn't allow Neymar to leave. Neymar was taken from them. And there was nothing they could do about it. They were bullied.

Too low of a release clause was agreed. Brahmin Diaz’s release clause from Real was 400 million.

dfx-

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't think he necessarily is though - he's also their biggest revenue generator and keeps their profile sky-high.

Their problem is all the other deals. If you're paying Messi that much, you need balance elsewhere. But instead they give Griezmann 800k a week. They give De Jong 400k a week. Dembele, Pjanic and Umtiti on around (or over) 200k a week.

Every new signing was getting stupid money, well above what they needed to be offered to get them signed up.

Arthur, Semedo, Digne, Brathwaite, Busquets a five year deal at 30, Vidal. What has cost them was buying into the idea of a supporting cast for Messi in huge numbers at huge cost and then being stuck with their contracts when it didn't work.

The president who spent it all was there long before Neymar left.

DM_7

Barca now looking for La Liga to do something to help them keep Messi, can the league afford to lose it's key player?

Despite FC Barcelona and Lionel Messi having reached an agreement and the clear intention of both parties to sign a new contract today, this cannot happen because of financial and structural obstacles (Spanish Liga regulations).

"As a result of this situation, Messi shall not be staying on at FC Barcelona. Both parties deeply regret that the wishes of the player and the club will ultimately not be fulfilled.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0805/1239257-barcelona-announces-lionel-messi-will-leave-the-club/

MisterAnarchy

The timing of the announcement is interesting.

It was announced yesterday that a new company is to be formed controlling all of La Liga’s business activities. CVC Partners , a private equity firm, have bought a 10% stake in the joint-venture for 2.7bn euro.

The €2.7 billion will be shared across the Spanish footballing pyramid and will allow clubs (most notably Barcelona) a much-needed influx of capital to register new signings and sort out financial issues.

However Barcelona are considering rejecting La Liga's new TV contract amid concerns over the length of the deal in question, 40 years.

Shortly after the Messi leaving announcement , Real Madrid announced that they had rejected a deal that would see CVC Capital Partners purchase a 10 per cent stake in La Liga for €2.7billion. 

In a statement, Real claim that the "agreement was reached without the involvement or knowledge of Real Madrid".

This will rumble on for a while yet.

Mr.Nice Guy

Reckon there's a decent chance La Liga back down and change the rules to allow him to stay.

MisterAnarchy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117712217#Comment_117712217

Almost certainly.

La Liga cant afford to lose its most famous player.

TCP/IP

Messi is a financial noose around the neck of Barca perhaps it's not the worst he leaves.

But they really should have sold him for big money last year.

Mr.Nice Guy

Just realised Gary Lineker will be gutted if he goes. He joined La Liga TV a few weeks ago and I'm pretty sure a large reason for that was to praise Messi every week.

klose

Have to agree that LaLiga will eventually back down on this and accommodate Barcelona and Messi to continue.

Agent Coulson

The only other team other than Barca that will pay Messi his million a week if PSG.

City who could afford to pay it however they are better with there PR and wouldn't want that kind press paying Messi a million a week with the English tabloids digging into to it.

DM_7

This is from just before the Messi news.

https://twitter.com/KuperSimon/status/1423362689678692362?s=19

To keep Messi they would possibly have to sell key players for the future like Pedri or De Jong due to lack of interest in others. Maybe it suits Barca to move on Messi, his wages, his influence off the field and start the process of a post Messi era now? Blame the league to save some backlash from fans.

Kiith

I've absolutely no sympathy for them, and am actually delighted to see this happen. Barca signed players like i did in Championship Manager back in the day. "Give him 50k" was the quote for offering the maximum wages the game would allow, and was done for basically everyone. Terrible managed, and was only a matter of time before this happened.

Great history and all that, but long gone are the days when you'd look at that team with any sort of respect.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713368#Comment_117713368

yeah - he's 34, no matter how good he is, his influence on the pitch is going to decline, Barca will have to adapt their team and tactics to get the best out of him; and then at some point he'll be finished and they'll be left with a massive rebuilding job. It may be for the best to let him go and be a luxury player in Ligue1 or MLS.

or, this is just a ruse to pressure the league to bail them out; only a few weeks ago Barca were basically willing to gut their squad and alienate their remaining players to keep Messi on board.

Cookiemunster

Laporta currently doing a press conference. Basically saying that the deal was financially unviable due to the shitshow the previous board left (debt situation actually worse than they though) and La Liga being inflexible and not allowing some leeway with the new financial rules.

Royale with Cheese

Any club in Barca's apparent financial position with any sense wouldn't have entertained offering him the contract in the first place.

GSPfan

Can someone else confirm something for me regarding Messi’s wages?

So it’s being reported that he was going to take a massive drop in wages in this new contract, but surely that’s playing with the numbers. He was going to be taking home less each month because it was really a 2 year contract spread across 5 years. If you actually condensed that 5 years back to 2 then he’d be earning the same/higher. So this idea that Messi isn’t about the money is surely wrong.

Am I missing anything?

GSPfan

I found this as a reference for the salary numbers. His last contract was 4 years at a total of over €670m, and his new contract was really a 2 year contract at a total of €420m. Laporta confirmed it was a 2 year contract this morning.

05A779BD-51D5-426C-8B17-99CBBA1CEC2D.jpeg

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/07/17/report-messi-barcelona-agree-to-new-5-year-deal-with-massive-pay-cut/amp/

rob316

He's 34, he cant go on forever. Its probably best Barca let him go and look to the future.

ebbsy

Messi leaving Spain would drastically reduce the value of both La Liga and Barcelona.

If it is actually allowed to happen I will eat my (edible) hat.

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714871#Comment_117714871

La Liga is finished, like Serie A after the 90s. Best to let him go and rebuild.

TomSweeney

Can't imagine two summers in a row where Messi is leaving is reversed ...

DM_7

Mad to think without Suarez and now Messi they still have a quality front three and midfield group heading into next season.

They might start to get some retuen from what were poor investments in recent times as they can form a team to get the best from the group and not all focussed on Messi.

DM_7

Just seen Pedri has played over 1150 minutes of internationals over the summer. He is only 18, Barca will have to rest him for the start of the season.

Re Messi he has a press event at the Nou Camp tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/SquawkaNews/status/1423988113504935939?s=19

MisterAnarchy

Seems Florentino Perez and Agnelli are in Barcelona today.

Seems like the overriding thing for Messi is a desire to stay in his gaff in Barcelona from his "tearful" shindig

Probably would be nice to still hanging out there bleeding the place dry on the 100 million euro a season also (this would obviously have been reduced if he stayed and he did take some pandemic reductions)

PSG surely the only real option with the Qatari money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHT9ZSMSpoQ

rob316

The latest is Laporta agreed to the CVC deal with La Liga so he could renew Messi contract, but then Perez at Madrid convinced the Barca board to reject it. That's how it went from them having a valid contract to no longer so quickly.

MisterAnarchy

Very interesting comments by Laporta this week.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/barcelona-hoped-messi-would-play-for-free-as-laporta/inc285ai0xr21cwyyb1uwxwzu

Laporta said: "With Messi I do not get angry because I appreciate him. I know he had a huge desire to stay, but also a lot of pressure because of the offer he had.

“Everything indicates that he already had the offer from PSG. Everyone knew that he had a very powerful offer. We knew from Messi that they had a very good offer.

“At no time do I think of going backwards. I think I'm doing the best for Barca. Nobody can put the institution at risk.

“I did hope that at the last minute Messi would say that he would play for free. I would have liked that and he would have convinced me. I understand that the league would have accepted it. But we cannot ask that of a player of his level.”