Is there an argument to be made for increasing police firm-handedness in Dublin?

enricoh

696 convictions - this has to be a record!! Well she's off the smack and crack apparently, so making progress! In her own words, it could be worse! I can see why cops don't bother their a#$e anymore.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dublin-woman-with-record-of-696-convictions-tells-judge-it-could-be-worse-40788999.html

Kermit.de.frog

That's the corrupt revolving door justice system. The judges helping their mates from the Bar and the legal aid bandwagon.

The results are to be seen on the streets. If you are beaten within an inch of your life by someone with triple digit convictions walking the streets, that's why.

Those solicitors aren't walking those streets, they are well sheltered in Foxrock or D4 or wherever.

Strumms

1) enough Gardai, to respond swiftly and to deter by having a visible presence.

2) judges who hand down custodial sentences without exception for every physical attack / assault on a member of the public / Gardai...

the actual custodial element of the sentence should be equal to any suspended part of the sentence.

Kermit.de.frog

Apparently this is not unusual.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1482373/Teenagers-Pearse-House-Dublin-violence-hammers-knives-police

What really ticks me off also is, if a stand up person gave one of the scrots or serial offenders a whooping or casual beat down, the police would feel "obliged" to ensure they feel the full force of the law.

What I'm saying is, we have to be constantly on guard not to ever act out against this anti-social malice, regardless of provocation.

I'm beginning to think this Mannix dude was right, McEntee and her department of cronies are really sub par when it comes to actually getting anything meaningful done.

I skimmed through this paper:

Benefits of Bullying? A Test of the Evolutionary Hypothesis in Three Cohorts

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jora.12675

"Partial support for the evolutionary hypothesis was found as bullies had more children in NCDS and engaged in sexual intercourse earlier in TRAILS. In contrast, bullies reported worse health in NCDS and BCS70"

In this instance I'm comparing teh "bad boy" trash demographic to essentially a bullying element of regular society.

I think the comparison is aptly analogous as, it's that general demographic that have kids on an almost whimsical basis, with little to nothing available in preparation for their future.

Again alludes to the conventional "poverty trap" where children are born into a situation from which the possibility of rising beyond is made orders of magnitude more difficult by way of their parents outlook (or lack thereof).

That kind of "feral" demeanor, I truly believe there's a strong tendencies of association specifically attributable to at least one of the primary female drivers - safety and security.

Re the "bullying" analogy, if they associate with a bully, there'll be protected from predatory behavior, as they're associated with the primary predator?

Taking my favorite tram ride out to Tallaght and clocking the little chavies with their girlfriends.... it just feels that way.

Without question gals aren't hooking up with this mutants out of physical attraction.

But a "rough" element = potential predatory element, association with which there's a safety component to be had, and in a "free for all" environment like some overcrowded wanna-be ghetto dump, no doubt there's status in some capacity associated with liaison with the predator type.

Basically the last two walls of text convey that certain societal demographics feel there's sexual advantages to be had by being trashy.

Even though in relation to sound genetics (phenotyping, gene expression) the opposite is true.

.....

Question remains simply, how to address this?

I still say enforcement units to crush that behavior and thus mindset will be in the initial stages at least, an essential decision of the state.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805608#Comment_117805608

The term corruption is thrown around like a loose cannonball. If you think the revolving door justice system is a result of corruption between judges and the legal profession, then do try to provide actual proof.

The revolving door justice system is actually rooted in our society's unwillingness to properly fund prison spaces or attempt any innovative ways of applying justice such as utilizing ankle bracelets for house confinement or penalizing social welfare payments for recurrent offenders.

How exactly would your enforcement unit work?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829661#Comment_117829661

Via eradicating the streets of scrots and their trash hanger-on gal pals.

.....

In a perfect world.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830064#Comment_117830064

How?

is that not what the police do now. How would your unit be different?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830076#Comment_117830076

Degenerates operate via fear and intimidation.

This has been allowed to run rampant to the point it's become an urban culture.

So fight fire with fire.

Honestly the question is self explanatory.

....

What a wonderful thing it would be to see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830110#Comment_117830110

So, you believe that the police should be allowed to dole out corporal punishment to whoever they see fit?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830172#Comment_117830172

in my experience ive found that Irish people want ruthless and aggressive policing applied to everyone apart from themselves, those related to them and those they know socially

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830172#Comment_117830172

That's a grotesque twisting of words.

Continental enforcement units, whatever they do bro.

Irish enforcement should simply emulate whatever continental enforcement units do.

Their presence alone, reinforced transport units, body armor, the sight of crowd control equipment = fear and intimidation for those that have malfeasance in mind.

It also = reassurance and comfort in the minds of decent folk that the state is aware and competent enough to manage scumbag cultures.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830452#Comment_117830452

I have no idea what you're talking about.

continental enforcement units do what exactly?

we have public order units and armed support units in Dublin. What exactly are you looking for?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830523#Comment_117830523

Them to do their job, I guess?

I've never seen either of such entities that you mention, and if they do in fact exist, I've never see them bring order to the public, or support with any arms.

What am I looking for? Don't make it sound like a personal crusade, the city of Dublin itself is crying out for this, but its common knowledge policy makers like Ryan and McEntee have their heads lodged in their own lower intestines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830556#Comment_117830556

They exist alright, just because you haven't seen them, hardly means they don't exist!

in fact, you probably have seen them. And you definitely have heard of them because they are in the news fairly regularly. And they do their job.

So, what else do you think should happen?

^^ Pfff, never seen them.

I see scumbags left and right though, I see intimidation, anti-social behavior, drunken disorderly and violence from the time I step off platform 4 all the way down talbot st, across O'Connell st, down to abbey st., on the Luas out as far as Tallaght.

I'm sure it goes farther, but that's as far as I go.

It's scum ridden.

It's beautiful in many ways, but scum contaminated, put it that way.

DCC continue to either play dumb or placate the entire fiasco cause maybe on some warped level they endorse it?

Who knows?

People are crazy.... loco..... and some idiots think that's glamorous.

I think it excites them actually to, in their minds, endorse the "criminal type".

Some men are like that.

Some women too.

.....

Anyways point being, if they were doing their job or their protocol was fit for purpose, I wouldn't see those things, and boards.ie would be full of threads underscoring exactly what I'm underscoring, and Pat Kenny and Claire Byrne wouldn't be raising the issue the ad nauseum, and Dublin City TD Josepha Madigan wouldn't have just penned an article expressing outrage that this matter continues to be neglected.

What else do I think should happen?

In all honesty I'd like you to take a walk up and down the bachelors walk boardwalk a few times next Fri/Sat night, then report back to us on Monday about these wonderful and pro-active police and enforcement units you speak of, doing such a fantastic job around Dublin city.

Oh wait, a dude tried that just a couple week ago.

It didn't go so well....

meathstevie

The law as it stands is quite alright, Gardai can use necessary, reasonable, proportionate and justifiable force, aka legitimate violence, in the execution of their duties.

There is no hard and fast definition of what exactly that means and there’s no cast in stone procedures for what such an application of force should look like.

Ultimately a judge and jury can be the arbiters of the legality of it all.

Unless it’s a planned operation it’s a pure judgement call for the Gardai involved in an incident.

The perfect scenario is the person/suspect they’re dealing with being compliant and somewhat cooperative.

The exact opposite is a suspect shooting at them, trying to run them over with a car, trying to stab them and so on.

How one deals with that can be practiced ad nausea in training scenarios but when it happens for real the reaction will be very personal and varying from Garda to Garda.

As long as the Gardai and innocent bystanders involved can go home unscathed and no clearly excessive violence was used all is ticketyboo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829374#Comment_117829374

".... engaged in sexual activity at an earlier age which is considered reproductively beneficial but developmentally a risk.

...indicative of a somatic versus reproductive trade off, whereby bullies follow a fast life strategy that implies investing in reproductive opportunities even if those come at health costs later on"

I mean does this not sum up the situation to perfection? Trash gals get knocked up early and often, with DISTINCT developmental compromise written into the future code of their offspring.

Cycle repeats itself.

It's a disaster, and at heart of Dublins primary issues currently, without a doubt.

.....

How to remedy it?

Well, it's all a mindset. Crap rolls downhill, and now the obligation IS ON THE STATE, to implement measures to ensure this mindset will be treated with the contempt it deserves, not endorsed and allowed to fester as has been the case under the incompetence of state administrators up to this point.

In perspective of the bullying analogy, it also makes little sense to me why Eamon Ryan would obstruct enforcement unit activity in the city center;

I mean you think this pretty face didn't catch a few lambastings from teh billy-bad-boys when he was a youth?

And now he wants to just allow them to do their thing with impunity?

It's like he must have a case of Stockholm syndrome or something and wants to assist his tormentors.

It appears that you believe anti social and illegal behaviour is committed by males, trying to impress females. And females encouraging such behaviour.

You believe we should have enforcement units, even though we have public order units and.armed.support units (although it appears, if you don't see them they don't exist! Did you ever see Everest?)

I think your ideas are just rubbish.

There is definitely a need for more gardai on the streets, despite having more members of AGS then ever before, there are less on the regular units. However, management 'managed' to do that.

Kermit.de.frog

The Garda don't even have body cameras yet despite being promised them two years a go.

Eamon Ryan is the type of ideologue that has brought these problems to the city. This idea that no one is bad, that society has inflicted something upon these gurriers and they are owed respect while the making the lives of others a living hell.

It's OK for Ryan and others to say that. They don't suffer it. It is not their communities that see the true cost of this behaviour.

They are hopelessly out of touch.

Kermit.de.frog

Well, it's the capital city and if it's not attractive to visitors, investors, people who might want to live here then that will effect the whole economy.

That Councillor Mannix Flynn seems to be the only one saying it as it is. Everyone else qualifying the situation.

Our mayor wants us to "understand the root causes of alcohol and drug abuse". That's what she had to say the other day as gurriers have the run of the streets and alarmed gardai are anonymously contacting the media about how they don't have the resources and they are intimidated by gangs of teenagers in the heart of the city.

Here he is talking about people being terrorised in the flat complexes in the inner city.

https://m.independent.ie/podcasts/in-focus-a-city-abandoned-street-crime-in-the-capital-40803118.html

Kermit.de.frog

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/deliveroo-carrying-out-urgent-review-of-appalling-incident-in-temple-bar-40901117.html

https://mobile.twitter.com/gerrynkennedy/status/1443110173464276992

Its the bingo card in this video.

^^ That is infuriating.

Those little bad-girl wanna-be's make me want to vomit.

I was passing Dr Quirky's earlier and there was a flock of them just hollering at the top of their voices.

God they make me sick.

And, listen I know it's not the popular opinion but I like cultural diversity.... when it's managed well (establishing supportive communities etc).

But WHAT is the deal with the gypsies from O'Connell St down to Amiens St?

Just literally gangs of gypsies sat on the street ("roma"?), I'm pretty sure I saw one women breast feeding a child, though I didn't want to be scarred for life so didn't try and catch a second glance.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960623#Comment_117960623

They're housed in private emergency accommodation in and around the Gardiner Street area.