Would you be happy for your children to receive covid-19 vaccine

is_that_so

Latest UK guidance on this, an approach we'll probably follow.

The UK does not plan to vaccinate most children until more data becomes available, the government said today.

But children from aged 12 with severe neuro-disabilities, Down Syndrome, immunosuppression and multiple or severe learning disabilities, will be eligible, as will those who are household contacts of people who are immunosuppressed.

“Today’s advice does not recommend vaccinating under-18s without underlying health conditions at this point in time,” said UK health secretary, Sajid Javid. “But the JCVI will continue to review new data, and consider whether to recommend vaccinating under-18s without underlying health conditions at a future date.’’

revelman

The central argument that features in many posts is that it is still too early to tell whether the vaccines have any negative effects on children. But surely the same applies to COVID itself, particularly the new Delta variant, which seems much more transmissible among children. How do you know what the long term impact of this nasty virus will be on anyone, including children?

Deeec

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633744#Comment_117633744

Look Im just giving my opinion. These 125,000 babies born to vaccinated mothers were only born in the last year and probably will not have met all their milestones yet so how can it be said that it is 100% safe and there wont be issues with these children down the line. All they can say at the moment is that they were born and have no visible difficulties. Its not an easy decision for pregnant women to make. I would rather take every other precaution to avoid getting covid during pregnancy rather than take the vaccine.

I have no problem with all other adults taking the vaccine. I have got my first dose myself. I do have concerns however with children and pregnant women getting the vaccine.

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633709#Comment_117633709

So there are two flaws with this argument;

1. The risk of the Covid vaccine in pregnant women is unknown. It's probably very low but it's unknown. However, it IS known that Covid infection increases your chances of a preterm birth, ending up in ICU or even dying. So doing nothing is not necessarily the best protection for your baby.
2. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you are one of those people who is reliant on herd immunity to avoid infection. As noted above, having 20-25% of your population (i.e. the under 18s) excluded from vaccination greatly undermines the effectiveness of herd immunity.

There's no free lunch here. The more people who decline to be vaccinated, the more issues we'll have. If you fixate on the safety of vaccines, you're increasing the risk from Covid.

astrofool

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633801#Comment_117633801

I presume "take every precaution" means not being seen by health professionals during the pregnancy? as they will have been vaccinated and could be asymptomatic carriers.

Deeec

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633872#Comment_117633872

Of course I would be seen by health professionals. I would take the small risk of getting covid from them.

Mrs OBumble

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633872#Comment_117633872

As potential asymptomatic carriers, they should be masked, and so have very little chance of axtuallt transmitting Covid.

Deeec

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633845#Comment_117633845

1. I know there are risks to the mother and baby if the mother catches covid during pregnancy but I think you are agreed that the affects of the vaccine on a developing baby are also unknown. It is a real tough decision to make for pregnant women and their partners. It is one that could have long term consequences either way.
2. Most women though would get vaccinated after their pregnancy - they are just delaying getting the vaccine.

There is no doubt its not an easy situation.

NIMAN

Me and the OH gladly took the vaccine, now both vaccinated.

Will I be giving it to our kids, simple answer no.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633578#Comment_117633578

Yes, smallpox and polio are comparable. Ireland is a bit behind, the US is, once again, at the forefront: in Tennessee, the antivax based government wants to stop all vaccinations, including things like polio and smallpox, for children.

For the conspiracists, 'vaccine' is just that - no difference between polio, smallpox, mRNA, vector, protein based. Science is irrelevant.

The 'Covid vaccines may do more harm than good' narrative is a conspiracy theory, nothing else. Globally, there have been over 4 million deaths from Covid. To claim that deaths from vaccinations could be anywhere near as bad - which is factually what the conspiracists claim - is insane, completely removed from reality. And that's only considering deaths, not other harm, like long Covid in children.

Vaccinations have become completely politicised, to a degree where being 'concerned' about children is, in most cases, nothing more than a pretence for an antivax narrative by conspiracists.

And genuine, natural concern for children in parents is exploited by conspiracists, to create fear and doubt, attract attention, and give a soft start for buying into their insane nonsense.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633457#Comment_117633457

You mean the drug that is probably coming back to market after further assessment per the normal process found benefits exceed risk in some circumstances. The system behaving as intended. If studies waited until all potential risks were studied and eliminated nothing new would be developed ever.

And prolonged use over a considerable period of time is quite different to two doses of a substance that disappears completely from the body.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633463#Comment_117633463

No I said the trials were completed at the pace the presence of subjects enabled. No vaccine I am aware of has ever had an effect that only became apparent 2 years after taking it. The active ingredients trigger immune response and disappear. What you are pushing is alarmist and based on at best a superficial understanding of the clinical trial process and the mechanism of vaccine operation. All the drugs getting cited as examples to warm against vaccine use either involved use over a period of time, which is not the case in vaccines, or presented quickly after inoculation in the case of vaccines. If the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks in children they will be approved. There will be no time bomb ticking where the vaccine causes an issue two years down the road as it will be long gong

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633414#Comment_117633414

That is absolute blatant hysteria designed to misinform deliberately. Care to guess the rate of myocarditis in young male athletes following COVID-19 infection?

Common sense? Non sense more like

Red Silurian

Yes I would be happy for my child to get a vaccine, he's 7 though so I'm not holding out on it happening before Christmas and then there's the question of should we instead use our supply as boosters for the vulnerable instead

In think this thread should be renamed the “I’m not anti vaccine but” thread.

With abundant misrepresentation and a sprinkling of wilful ignorance

Deeec

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634469#Comment_117634469

Just to clarify I am not 'pushing' anything - I am just stating my opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions.

byhookorbycrook

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633709#Comment_117633709

A friend died of flu , 7 months pregnant. I certainly would take any vaccine and be delighted to get it .

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634700#Comment_117634700

Being entitled to an opinion does not also entitle one to avoid having that opinion challenged as baseless nonsense when that is the case.

fits

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634707#Comment_117634707

Also re pregnancy not all go smoothly and it’s quite possible to have an extended stay in hospital where it’s demonstrably easy to pick up covid.

Everyone’s a bloody expert these days. I’ll leave it up to the actual people who know what they are talking about and follow their recommendations.

Pwindedd

For the record I don’t have to make this decision, my daughter is now old enough to make it for herself.

But yes I think I would be happy for her to be vaccinated if I had to make that call on her behalf.

Vaccines have been around for many years and the vast majority of them cause very few complications. She was vaccinated with all the standard jabs from a very early age as advised by medical professionals. I didn’t overthink it then and I probably wouldn’t now.

We expose our children to far greater risks on a daily basis than an approved vaccine could ever present

Sobit1964

https://www.wired.com/story/the-cdc-owes-parents-better-messaging-on-the-vaccine-for-kids/

Plenty of reasons to wait for more data, as most countries are doing. The ghouls who are rushing headlong with abandon towards injecting children belong in a padded cell. I only hope they don't actually have children of their own.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635477#Comment_117635477

We are being told on this thread that children should never get vaccinated, not that we need to wait for more data, which is what the approval process actually is, assess the data and weigh up the risk benefit. No one is saying otherwise, apart from those who are deliberately spreading false information to promote vaccine hesitancy when no evidence of increased harm exists or no evidence of anyone promoting use of vaccine without proper assessment exists

pc7

Im vaccinated and my smallies have all their vaccines uptodate, I paid for Men b for one before it was added to schedule. But as it stands no I wouldn’t give them this one (they are under 12) so likely not an issue in coming year.

if they had under lying issues or that would cause them serious harm from Covid I may think differently, but thankfully I’m not in that position.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635494#Comment_117635494

What is different about this one? Even though unlikely, they are far more likely to suffer serious adverse effects from covid if un-vaccinated, as everyone will likely catch it at some point in the coming few years, than they are to ever get Men b.

Vaccination or previous exposure to the virus starts the process of the population resistance which see an end position of Covid being just like the the other endemic human corona-virus's. Vaccination is far more controlled. Prevalence of conditions such as myocarditis are far higher in young people exposed to the actual virus than to the vaccine, and everyone unvaccinated will get the virus. And even so myocarditis is not a death sentence or even a live limiting condition unless untreated

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635477#Comment_117635477

Again, the risk of getting myocarditis from Covid is much higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccine

olestoepoke

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117631593#Comment_117631593

No pass no school, surely they wouldn't get away with that?

FishOnABike

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633578#Comment_117633578

Well measles has a fatality rate of 2 or 3 per 10,000 (higher in young children, up to 0.2%) and we routinely vaccinate against it.

.42.

Kids will end up getting the COVID vaccine in the end like any other vaccine they receive.

iguana

Of course I would. If Covid is allowed to run through children, we will still be years before this actually ends. Vaccines are only as good as a person's immune response and there is a huge population of vaccinated people who are still very susceptible to the virus who need herd immunity. That's how vaccines work. It's not a case of get a shot and you are completely protected. It's everyone gets vaccinated so the virus can no longer spread. That's where the protection comes from. It's societal rather than individual.

And that's even without the risk of the virus evolving a vaccine resistant strain if left to continue moving through a very significant chunk of our population. There is a strong argument for ensuring all adults globally are vaccinated before we move onto healthy children in wealthy countries. Both ethically and in terms of preventing mutations. But that's an argument about the order in which paediatric vaccinations should happen, not if they should happen. We do need absolutely everyone who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated to end this for once and for all.

paw patrol

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117632840#Comment_117632840

the conditional marketing jargon is the equivalent of the USA's EUA . it isn't approve in the standard way and that is the fact.

you wanna play with words and think you are some Shakespeareo wordsmith with your gothca declaration , fire away - I hope it comforts you but you know I'm right.

spaceHopper

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634438#Comment_117634438

No They mean a drug which was suspected to a have issues which the makes suppressed for 5 years. Since that the FDA seems to think it is safe for long terms use.

It now been considered for one condition for which there is no other treatment. Voxx is not approved for general long terms used except for a very small set of patients under an orphan drug program.

It's not helpful if you only give part of the information, the part that helps your case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib

seamus

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635557#Comment_117635557

No pass, no school is specifically unconstitutional. If a child requires education the state cannot refuse to provide it.

In theory they can refuse unvaccinated kids, but the state is on the hook for providing an alternative, be that an in-home tutor, an "unvaccinated" school, etc. In other words, it will not happen.

Just to note that the constitutionality is based on the state's obligation to provide education to every child. Private schools and clubs are not so bound and may be permitted to refuse unvaccinated children if such a thing is reasonable in their context.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635646#Comment_117635646

Conditional marketing authorisation is a pragmatic tool for the fast-track approval of a medicine that fulfils an unmet medical need. Despite earlier approval, it guarantees that the medicine meets rigorous EU standards for safety, efficacy and quality and that comprehensive data is still generated post-approval.

It offers a robust post-authorisation regulatory framework based on legally binding obligations, safeguards and controls.

These include:

• full prescribing information and package leaflet with detailed instructions for safe use and conditions for storage;
• a robust risk-management and safety monitoring plan;
• manufacturing controls including official batch controls for vaccines, as required;
• legally binding post-approval obligations (i.e. conditions) for the marketing authorisation holder and a clear legal framework for the evaluation of emerging efficacy and safety data;
• an paediatric investigation plan.

pc7

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635507#Comment_117635507

At their age currently (under 6) the risk from covid is low, I feel this vaccine is very new and I’d rather wait. But again it’s not an issue at this stage as it’s not being muted for their ages.

I had a school friend die from men b when I was 10, there has also been outbreaks over the years where I work. It was a well used and monitored vaccine, so that’s the difference. 2 years down the line as things progress and more is known about this vaccine and kids I will happily change my mind. Also if a variant emerges that is a greater risk to young kids I would reassess then.

its not relevant at this stage as they are under 12.

Cienciano

I have 2 kids under 10. No, I wouldn't probably wouldn't vaccinate them unless it was recommended. Pretty much zero chance of covid effecting them. Same with the vaccine. Why bother?

cgcsb

Well if kids aren't vaccinated, covid will continue to circulate in the younger age groups and more new strains will emerge, perhaps strains that are vaccine resistant and strains that are very harmful to children, and then we'll have a fresh pandemic and lockdowns. So ultimately yes that's the only way. The viruses that we eradicated in the 20th century through mass vaccinations included all ages as it was understood this was the only way to fully destroy them. There's no reason not to take the same approach now.

Sure there's little risk to kids right now from the current strains but that can all change very quick. I do get people have concerns about children getting long term side effects because they're still pubescent but there's no real biological reason to implement 18 as a cut off point anyway. 99% of males are not fully physically developed by 18 anyway.

revelman

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635842#Comment_117635842

But the COVID virus is also very new. We don’t know the long-term impact of this virus on anyone, including children. We are starting to discover some things e.g. long COVID.

NaFirinne

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635887#Comment_117635887

Covid is going to continue to be circulated in both vaccinated and unvaccinated, new variants are going to continue to emerge weather vaccinated or not.

The current line of vaccinations are not good enough to erradicate covid. We already know that. Hopefully in the future we will get vaccines that will.

pc7

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635889#Comment_117635889

Yes and at this stage giving or not giving my smallies the vaccine isn't an issue as they aren't even being considered. If something changes in the coming months I'll consider it, but if we were told tomorrow that kids under 6 could have it I would hold off at this point.

biko

Let stick with the original plan, protect the old and let the virus burn itself out in general population.

fits

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635933#Comment_117635933

When was that ever the plan🤨?

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635933#Comment_117635933

That was NEVER the plan. Never, never, never.

Worth reiterating that vaccine protection is not 100%. And of course, the people most likely to get infected despite vaccination, and to get seriously ill are.... old people.

If/when Covid becomes rife in children, it is inevitable that the number of old people getting sick and dying in spite of vaccines will go up also.

We have still more than 50% of the population who aren't fully vaccinated. It is absolute madness to talk about letting the vaccine burn itself out. This is what the UK are doing. Let's see how they get on...

Cienciano

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635887#Comment_117635887

But you can still get covid and pass it on if you're vaccinated. The symptoms are just far less severe.

paw patrol

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635833#Comment_117635833

from your own source

for such medicines on less comprehensive clinical data than normally required

left off the quotation. oddly.

you can take it is you want , you can argue the need is there - i'm good with both argument - but don't say it was tested as robustly as is the norm.

My main gripe is mandatory vaccines - which what a two tier society will mandate by proxy.

temporarily - like all our covid rules - of course :rolleyes:

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117636051#Comment_117636051

The point is and continues to be it is the standard approach to authorisations of products for unmet clinical need. Multiple products authorised each and every year using this process.

The continued attempts to insinuate otherwise are just a reflection of the anti vax propaganda coming out of the US where they did use a non standard approach, and attempts to conflate the talking points from the US with what is happening here.

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117636027#Comment_117636027

Well, yes and no - you can still get infected but you are far less likely to get infected. If you get infected, you are far less likely to pass it on and you are far less likely to get sick.

Lumen

@[Deleted User] The point is and continues to be it is the standard approach to authorisations of products for unmet clinical need. Multiple products authorised each and every year using this process.

Including several flu vaccines.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117635885#Comment_117635885

Why bother?

To reach herd immunity.

To protect those who have medical reasons why they CAN'T be vaccinated.

To minimise the risk of vaccine resistant variants emerging.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117636366#Comment_117636366

As a parent you make the best decisions you can for your child. We can make choices for ourselves as adults about society, our children cannot and it's very murky moral grounds when we suggest that parents choices are to blame for what happens to others.

Pherekydes

My kids are all old enough to decide for themselves. And they're all (bar the oldest) done already. All double Pfizered. No major issues bar some levels of tiredness.

The oldest is getting done, eventually. She probably needs it the most.