General Rugby Discussion 3

StevenToast

Time for the lions tour to be knocked on the head....a glorified barbarians tour....

The individual countries have a far better opportunity of winning down in Southern hemisphere on their own...

Clegg

The wind is causing havoc in the Argentina vs Scotland game. Lineouts going crooked from it and kicks, that would have stayed infield, are going dead on the full instead.

eagle eye

This is some performance from Scotland.

AbusesToilets

Well well well, a NH sweep . That's a pretty significant event. The WC is really shaping up to be a belter. Shame the draw is so lopsided.

A-Train

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315101#Comment_119315101

It really shows up the farce that was carrying the draw out so far out from the tournament.

A good day when it’s a northern hemisphere clean sweep.

eagle eye

I couldn't care who wins outside of Ireland. Whether northern or southern hemisphere teams win is unimportant. I'll be happy if Ireland win.

pickarooney

I'd say it's never happened before that either all NH teams beat all SH teams on the same day* or that all 3-match tours come down to the decider (not sure if Scotland play Argentina again?)

*Pending USA v Chile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315376#Comment_119315376

I agree with you. But it’s a reassuring illustration of the strength of the 6N.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315412#Comment_119315412

Again, I only care about Ireland. I don't care how strong or weak the rest of the 6N are. The litmus test is New Zealand and we beat them. If you beat the All Blacks you have no concerns about anybody else. I know they got a red card early enough but we were on top before it came.

We know France are strong despite their close call against Japan.

I think they are the only two sides that we need concern ourselves with.

Dave_The_Sheep

This Chile - USA game is mad. Atrocious conditions, a power cut at ~62 minutes with Chile 14-12 up after a sensational try by Fernandez, eventually power is restored (or Chile would be awarded the win ahead of the second leg) and then the ref comms stop working. USA currently 14-15 up with 68 minutes played.

AbusesToilets

Some try by the Chilean no. 10, beat 6 US players from inside his own half.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314071#Comment_119314071

I can't understand the mindset of referees in moments like that not to just take a moment, and double check the situation. I know players always complain and argue they did nothing wrong, but when the instant reaction from the Welsh players is so vociferous surely it at least merits taking 30 seconds to check it upstairs. It's inexcusable in this day and age to get that sort of thing wrong.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314071#Comment_119314071

I have no idea why the focus is on Gardiner here. The TMO checks these in the background. If the game was stopped to check incidents where players complained. It would absolutely ruin it. It’s up to the TMO to spot them. Maybe we have reached a point we need two TMO’s though.

Pete_Cavan

Given incidents like that, should the captain get one challenge to a refs decision where it gets deferred to the TMO/ref watches n the big screen? Obviously if it has already been reviewed, they wouldn't be allowed to challenge as that is just going round in circles.

Just having one means a team should only use it at an important moment. I wouldn't give another challenge if the ref was wrong, that could lead to teams challenging rather innocuous things if they are sure they are right, knowing they can still challenge something else later. One chance, use it wisely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316080#Comment_119316080

Because Angus Gardner made the decision. He said "It's cynical hands by 19" almost as soon as the incident had occurred, and he issued the yellow almost immediately. He took virtually no time over the situation, felt he'd seen Jones use hands on the deck, and issued the yellow straight away. If he'd taken another 30 seconds to refer it, or give the TMO an opportunity to review, the right decision would have been made.

I don't think anyone is calling for a situation either where every single time players moan about something is referred upstairs, but I'm saying when you're making a decision that momentous, in a tight game, 5m out, making a call to sinbin a player when the score is 9-3, you better be sure you're getting it right.

TMO's slow things up massively when they're trying to see if a ball is buried under a mass of bodies on the ground, it would have take literally one quick replay of this to see the correct outcome.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316080#Comment_119316080

It was more than just an incident, it was a penalty and a yellow card. Absolutely worth checking.

stephen_n

Yes and that’s the whole point of the TMO. Even after the card was issued. Gardiners attention could have been drawn to it and the decision reversed. In the moment it’s easy for a ref to get that wrong. There’s no excuse for the TMO not to see it and say hold on a minute. I have something to show you. As happened a couple of times yesterday in the Irish game.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316169#Comment_119316169

They're never going to do that. I've seen incidences where referees say they got something wrong and reverse it, even in the game yesterday Gardner called advantage over and brought it back when Biggar's kick went out on the full, saying he'd ended the advantage too hastily.

But you'll never see a scenario where they reverse a yellow card on a stage like that.

My point was, I thought even in the moment, I can't get over the haste he's made that decision in. I was unsure in real time, and the pleading from Josh Adams and AWJ was way more frenzied than just the typical whining from players.

Gardner is the guy in control, and all he had to do was slow it down for a quick second, and review it, but he was adamant he knew what he'd seen and he made the call. How can that not be on him?

Yeah, sure, criticise the TMO too if you want, but this was on Gardner.

Ho ho - sorry folks:

Egg, may I introduce you to face:

https://twitter.com/FrontRowGrunt/status/1546018114571325440

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316363#Comment_119316363

I don't see that at all, and I think the angle from the other side which is significantly closer to the action shows the ball came off du Toit's left foot, when AWJ's lifts him to clear him from the ruck.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316397#Comment_119316397

I was in total agreement yesterday that it looked like Gardner had gotten it wrong and absolutely should have checked, but there is nothing else from that image which would have sent the ball in that direction other than Wyn-Jones's hand. Gardner had a much closer view and was certain also.

Here is the clip you're talking about, the far side angle being towards the end: https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-union/12648941/wales-down-a-man-after-alun-wyn-jones-is-sent-to-the-sin-bin

The foot of the SA in the ruck is still stationary after the ball has moved and the legs of the player on the ground are on the wrong side of the ball. It's trajectory is identical with the movement of Wyn-Jones's hand and the image from the blindside is obscured at the point of contact. I don't think he realised he'd made contact or was intending to - but I'm pretty certain that he did.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316487#Comment_119316487

Yeah, that's a fair call on that point, I looked to see when the ball moved versus when the foot moved, and it does look like AWJ hits it in the act of scooping Pieter Steph du Toit's leg.

I think you're right too that he didn't realise himself he'd made the contact.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316181#Comment_119316181

Yes but Gardner was obviously convinced of what he saw in real time. If he had any doubts at all he would have checked but clearly he didn’t. Players whine non stop these days. Just look at Sexton after Barrett’s try yesterday. Gardner believed he saw cynical foul play. Not something that’s beyond the bounds of believability it’s AWJ. It was up to the TMO to draw his attention to it and clearly he didn’t. All he had to say was Angus I want you to take a look at this.

Or maybe that’s ^^^ what the TMO saw when he checked.

Yurt2

Perhaps missed with all the action yesterday, but Japan were one dropped ball over the try line away from beating France yesterday.

Very strong performance from the Blossoms, and bodes well for them to kick-on from their 2019 performance.

Looks like Japan as a high-quality opponent is here to stay.

pickarooney

At home, at least. It's about time they got regular tours to Europe and Oceania.

Edit: just saw they play in England and France this Autumn.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316986#Comment_119316986

They make more sense in the Rugby Championship than Argentina truth be told. Timezone and travel-wise. Big TV money and sponsorship on offer as well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317367#Comment_119317367

Tokyo is definitely closer to them by time zone, but it's not actually much less travel time than the Argentines.

It's around 9,976km from Wellington to Buenos Aires, but it's 9,272km from Wellington to Tokyo.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317419#Comment_119317419

Don't know if they charter planes for RC teams to Arg (maybe), but there are zero direct flights from Aus, NZ and South Africa to Buenos Aires. Japan is far more connected to Aus and NZ (not really SA) than Argentina.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317470#Comment_119317470

Yeah, that's a fair shout.

OldRio

A good week for Georgian Rugby gets even better

https://twitter.com/GeorgianRugby/status/1546193043371458561?s=20&t=V_FlHwCcoyxxY45DFMYLSg

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119318664#Comment_119318664

Great for Georgia , with Italy making strides , finally , would be nice to bring Georgia in too , even every second year , a 7 or 8 Nations.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319011#Comment_119319011

Bringing any side in every second year for a 7 nations wouldnt help either and we just wont see an increase as sides wont necessarily want to play 6 games in 7 weeks and french/english clubs wont agree to expansion.

AbusesToilets

They should have a Euros style tournament that runs the same year as the Lions.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319157#Comment_119319157

I agree, something , the atmosphere would be a welcome addition, Italy are making progress , so something to help smaller nations, and get rugby to grow,

pickarooney

So Namibia through to the World Cup. Again. That final was a difficult watch, Kenya never looked remotely threatening.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319463#Comment_119319463

would like to have seen Kenya make it - a change, Namibia are in every tournament and not sure if they ever won a game -

pickarooney

Never won one.

Kenya have one last shot, against Portugal in Dubai in November.

The lengths these players have to go to in order to have even a chance at qualifying are incredible. I don't know how they balance all this travel and playing with a full time job

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320008#Comment_119320008

Portugal have a decent team, would expect them to win easily.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320413#Comment_119320413

Yes they pushed Italy close the other week.

Sidebar: Italy appear to be sh*te again all of a sudden.

errlloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322677#Comment_119322677

It's a sort of a weird vibe for Italy right. Most of their players haven't played since May 20th, and they have to remain in shape and in camp from then until three test against Portugal, Georgia and Romania. Hard to be hyped

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119323068#Comment_119323068

Watched the highlights and they looked no better than Portugal, thats the reality, I loved ther win against Wales , but getting a free ticket into 6 Nations not really helping them and certainly not Georgia and the rest. Unless they improve consistently, only a matter of time before thers promotion.

sydthebeat

I see vaea fifita is set to make himself available to play for Tonga next year.

They're building quite the squad

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324174#Comment_119324174

It's not a free ticket, they paid their dues. Have a look at Ireland's record prior to 2000, before clamouring for them to be jettisoned.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324174#Comment_119324174

Italy didnt get a free ticket into the 6 Nations and yes all the 6 nations and rugby championship sides need to play the rest more often but just removing them and replacing them with a side as bad/not much better isnt the answer. Georgia arent likely to be added to the 6 nations any time soon.

Itxa

Irish provincial A teams considering tournament with Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas.

https://www.the42.ie/irfu-a-teams-south-africa-5814690-Jul2022/?amp=1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327906#Comment_119327906

That would be brilliant for Irish rugby.

Itxa

It will be interesting how they consider which players are eligible both with Leinster full team possibly needing to dig deep into the squad during the season. Can full Leinster players play for them? Also AIL commitments

sydthebeat

Great way for the academy / 2nd / 3rd strings to get meaningful game time and challenges. Those would certainly not be easy games by any stretch.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326318#Comment_119326318

Thats over 20 years ago , the reality is they just about beat Portugal with a last ditch try , and if you read what said I respected ther victory against Wales, and was not Clamouring for them to be jettisoned, but I'm sure Georgia and many others outside the establishment believe they have a free ticket into 6 nations.

Itxa

You’d wonder also if it might fracture the squad a bit into two groups where certain players get pigeonholed and less chances for the firsts. Would they bring in a separate coach?

I’m all for the idea the game has to grow beyond the traditional 8/9 powerhouses in the international game and expanding the professional game internationally is the only way to do it