General Rugby Discussion 3

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227874#Comment_122227874

This x100. League dynamics need to calcify in people's minds now, and stability is key.

Though i wouldn't mind a Jaguares style team from Portugal in particular joining (who couldn't be much worse than Dragons or Zebre) but only if it were to replace a team leaving the league.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227874#Comment_122227874

I agree some stability would be good but it would take a few years of planning before any team from Spain or Portugal could be added. They'd need to create a team, establish a funding model, contract players, etc. Once the shine of having the SA teams weres off, the league might need something to keep it interesting, particularly if the Welsh lose interest.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227863#Comment_122227863

I suspect that the English would rather eat their own faeces than entertain the Welsh.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225839#Comment_122225839

It'd need to be NZ to walk away with us, imo. They'd be uniquely positioned as the highest profile SH team (in terms of brand recognition) who also don't regularly have interaction with the NH (in contrast to SA via the club game).

But my impression is that NZ would also be the Union most in need of the money?

Also, as pointed out by others, the IRFU will huff and puff but ultimately follow the money themselves at any rate.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227958#Comment_122227958

Their clubs are on their arses, I'd say they are not far off the eating their own faeces stage.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228330#Comment_122228330

From The Guardian :

'The absence of promotion and relegation from the equation is understood to have been among the reasons why the Premiership eventually had to accept a reduced £26m sum per annum for their latest two-year television deal with TNT Sports. Once CVC Capital Partners’ 27% share of the commercial cake is sliced off, sources suggest the 10 Premiership clubs are likely to end up receiving about £1.9m apiece a year. Compare that with the soaring figures in France, where the Top 14 broadcasting deal is set to rise in value by 13.3 %.'

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227863#Comment_122227863

Right, so you want the number of games played to remain the same. So which games exactly are you cutting from the current schedule? And how will you replace the revenue from them for our existing teams, given the presumed big step down?

Replacing the Welsh teams with 4 Portuguese and Spanish teams would be a horrendous step down both in quality of rugby and in revenue. And also presupposes the Welsh are going to be let into the Premiership, which is highly unlikely.

Expanding to take in the SA teams is completely and utterly different from taking in any proposed Spanish and Portuguese teams in terms of revenue for the league. South African clubs were already established professional entities, playing at a high level, with regular large attendances and the second highest TV viewership figures in the world. They improved the league both in rugby quality and revenue. Spanish or Portuguese teams would do neither.

The Spanish and Portuguese teams would also need to have funding, per team, of millions of euros overnight just to run the teams to a competitive level - where are they to get this? Zebre, the least competitive and cheapest run rugby team in the URC currently, operate off of a yearly budget of over €5mn. Where exactly are the Spanish and Portuguese rugby unions going to get the tens of millions of euros required for this?

The game isn't popular enough in either of these countries (or most others) currently to fund top level professional teams, its completely unrealistic. The developing countries need a second tier competition to gradually build up support levels and funding. If "Adding new countries, thereby expanding the market and being more attractive to global companies would be good way to increase revenue" was actually the case then rugby would be expanding rapidly across the globe, but in reality its clearly rather different.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228250#Comment_122228250

There is zero indication the IRFU have the slightest problem with this agreement. I highly doubt they will even huff and puff

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228250#Comment_122228250

I would say Australian Rugby is in a much worse situation financially than NZ. If Ireland and NZ walk out of the deal the others will follow as the money simply won't be there without all 10 teams involved

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229892#Comment_122229892

If the fans huff and puff enough though

The one thing I will say, the middle east is the mid-way point of Europe and NZ/Australia so might be the most fair place to have it in that sense

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229875#Comment_122229875

The developing countries need a second tier competition

And where does the funding for a second tier competition come from? It involves all the same costs but with far less revenue generating potential. Second tier competitions are not a runner, it would be better to officially announce that rugby is being ring-fenced for a dozen teams because second tier competition allows for no chance of reaching tier 1 and will lose money until the plug is inevitably pulled. It is a road to nowhere.

Th English and Welsh clubs are facing a major crisis, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide that they have a better chance together. The English need more clubs to play and a relaunch of the league in a way that is more commercially attractive. Playing English clubs would surely significantly reduce costs for the Welsh teams as travel distances and requirements to stay overnight would be slashed. I can see how it would be attractive to both.

At the end of the day, rugby needs to find ways to grow beyond it's existing markets. There are no ready made solutions (beyond selling out to questionable wealth funds who ultimately have no interest in the success of the game) so something has to give. It would be better to look at expanding the URC in a controlled and considered way. While things are good right now with that new car sell still there from the SA teams, that won't always be the case. Pre-URC, the league was stagnating a bit.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231374#Comment_122231374

I note you've completely avoided answering the question put to you.

That aside, teams in second tier competitions require a fraction of the funding of teams in top tier competitions. If you don't understand that very basic premise (that applies across all sports) then I fear you really don't know enough about the game to have a valid opinion.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122236737#Comment_122236737

As I already pointed out, there are various scenarios of various probability where adding a team(s) wouldn't require additional fixtures. The most like of which is if Wales drop a pro team, that gives an opening for one team. Over the medium to long term, the participation of all current URC teams isn't guaranteed and consideration of potential replacements should be part of long term planning. Just look at the situation in England.

The funding requirements of a team in second tier competitions may be a fraction of the funding of a team in a top tier competition, but the funding requirements of an entire second tier competition plus all the teams in it would be more than a team at URC level. You'd need to pay lads enough for them to see playing for a team as a viable career choice. That applies to a squad of maybe 30, then you need approx 10 such teams. And where would such teams be based? There aren't any other single countries where rugby is big enough so it would have to be a cross-border competition over a large geographic area.

A second tier competition is going to be a blackhole for money and won't do anything to narrow the gap to the top tier. If you think otherwise, it is you doesn't understand the basic premise here and your knowledge (and not just of rugby) which has to be questioned.

sydthebeat

very sad news coming out of wales.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-player-collapses-dies-29342778?int_source=nba

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-remarkable-scenes-29343020

There were moving scenes at a Welsh rugby club on Wednesday night as more than 100 people turned up to honour a hugely popular player who collapsed and died in training on Tuesday.

The big crowd gathered to pay tribute to Lee Southall, 36, fondly known as the “people’s captain” at Hollybush RFC near Blackwood. Mr Southall died during a game of tag rugby at the club.

reminder to us all that we're not here for a long time, so make the very best of it that you can.

sydthebeat

Marky Mark called up to Aussie sevens

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/06/13/axed-wallabies-star-to-be-called-up-to-aussie-sevens-side-ahead-of-olympics/

pickarooney

Yeah, they totally axed their best back, definitely wasn't him quitting to play League.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254405#Comment_122254405

thats your take away from that article?

did you read where they said

Although Nawaqanitawase’s form hasn’t reached the heights of the past two seasons, his non-selection was more likely down to signing with the Sydney Roosters in the NRL on a two-year deal from 2025

i wouldn't be getting picky about what some sub-editor chooses as a click bait headline.

pickarooney

There were only two things to take from the article and you said the first one :P

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255509#Comment_122255509

and the other thing was not that he was axed.

you feel for clickbait headlining without reading the article

pickarooney

An article you posted. Good job.

phog

France name 19 uncapped players for their training camp for their summer tour.

That may change after the T14 completes

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269144#Comment_122269144

That group has no players from La Rochelle Stade Francais Toulouse or Bordeaux, I would say it will change big time.

theVersatile

Some interesting new names in the Bok team

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1803019394617847845?t=GGc6OX4zkWicUB53LiEPXw&s=19

pickarooney

Happy for Edwil, a real terrier of a player. Looking forward to see how Sacha takes to int'l rugby

sydthebeat

Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu is some player ! very exciting

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273672#Comment_122273672

Keeping in mind the Bulls are still playing the URC final this weekend, so none of their squad are in the Springbok team.

Does allow for some new names to get international game time.

theVersatile

I'm loving the idea of a Barbarians team meeting mid-game with their lineout under pressure.

Player: "How do we win the ball back?"

Whitelock: "Keep it simple. Throw Sinkler up at 2"

https://twitter.com/Barbarian_FC/status/1803455060870861211?t=AQiUji2A1-i4LYlN_LcXVA&s=19

Clegg

Not the first player Gatland has fallen out with since returning to Wales.

https://twitter.com/_AlexBywater/status/1804198620637376889?t=h6QUOyBwMuecBHzFPUL8yA&s=09

Podge_irl

I would say bringing him back will go down as the worst decision the WRU ever made, but christ there is some strong competition.

icdg

England trounce Japan 52-17 in a game very few people probably will have seen as there was no linear TV coverage on this side of the globe.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290249#Comment_122290249

It was free on Rugbypass.

Clegg

Really looking forward to Wales Vs South Africa. The Boks have won two World Cups off a suffocating defence and forwards dominated gameplan but seem to be changing their style of play.

Tony Brown is their new attack coach and his sides have been some of the most innovative in attack.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290764#Comment_122290764

This is going to be a long day at the office for Wales

Shocking kick from Hendrikse.

Crazy that the country that produced kickers of the calibre of Percy Montgomery, Morne Steyn and Handre Pollard often finds itself relying on kickers like this guy or Manie Libbok.

theVersatile

Springboks playing passes out the back? Tip ons? Playing wide early? What is this sorcery?

Great score, a bit easy.

Clegg

Great break from Roos, but that was off a one out pass from the ruck. The Wales defence was appalling. Should have been set after their own box kick.

theVersatile

Springboks showing nice variety in attack but Wales have the defensive integrity of a wet paper bag

Clegg

Penalty try for South Africa and another yellow for Wales. Discipline is shocking.

Clegg

Wales their own worst enemies.

Two yellow cards from ill discipline, then a knock on in front of an open try line.

theVersatile

Thats a serious double tackle from EDVM

And then follows it up by casually dancing around Rio Dyer 1v1

theVersatile

Good work from Busby over ruling his linesman there re: the Fassi incident

I think it might stay yellow since it looks like he hits the shoulder rather than the head?

theVersatile

Can see Sacha coming in at HT or early in the second half. Hendrikse is not it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291110#Comment_122291110

Yeah he’s a liability here.

Not shocked to hear the Saffer commentators at half time claiming Fassi shouldn’t have got a yellow 😒

How is that pass not called back?

About as obvious a forward pass as you’ll see.

testtech05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291165#Comment_122291165

Maybe that try with the blatant forward pass will cheer them up

Clegg

Malherbe and Mbonambi on as substitutes.

Ludicrous.

Clegg

Roos is a great athlete, but there's so little subtlety to his game. He runs straight and hard every single time.

Clegg

Wouldn't be against giving PSDT a yellow for the sheer cynicism of that. South Africa have been playing the 9 all day and given away a few of those.

AbusesToilets

Ref having a shocker today. How was that not carded? Mental thought process

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291293#Comment_122291293

Welsh player already bent over, Bongi looks at him, lines him up, bends and smacks into him head first, no attempt to wrap. Bizarre that it wasn't at least a yellow.

Think Busby been ok, he communicates well, but that was a very soft call, imo.