General Rugby Discussion 3

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626041#Comment_122626041

Not arguing the validity of having SA and their clubs in Europe instead of Aus/NZ/Pacific, I agree with that.

But I dont agree with your argument that NZ/Aus are only 5 hours behind the US and should be in with them.

Auckland is 19 hours ahead of Los Angeles, not 5 hours behind. So if a game is scheduled for 17:00 on a saturday afternoon in Auckland it will be 22:00 friday evening in Los Angeles, or 01:00 saturday on the US east coast. Or other way around, if a game is on at 17:00 saturday on the US west coast its noon sunday in NZ, or even earlier in Aus.

Its not much better for the players either. Leave on a non-stop flight at 16:00 from Auckland, fly for over 12 hours, and get to LAX at 08:00 the same day, actually going 7 or 8 hours back in time. Sure if you can get proper sleep for most of those 12 hours then its grand, but I somehow doubt these clubs are flying first class.

Coming from LAX back to Auckland isnt much better, leave 20:00 from LAX and you get to Auckland 12 hours later at 05:00am, but its 2 days later, not just the next day.

Its not impossible, would be a massive scheduling headache I would imagine, but just wont be any better than having SA as part of the Aus/Nz competition.

pickarooney

Is there anything to be said for playing all the games in Guam?

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626855#Comment_122626855

The national stadium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam_National_Football_Stadium#/media/File:Guam_National_Football_Stadium.jpg

ersatz

Joey C broke his hand in his first Bordeaux game. That guy cannot catch a break.

CMcsporty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122627620#Comment_122627620

Grass. Tick

Better than Saipan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Islands

btw I knew a Guy who played for Guam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Guy

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626810#Comment_122626810

But even the specific example times you've given exactly prove why its much better for TV markets. A 5pm Saturday Auckland kickoff which is also a 10pm LA Friday kickoff is very watchable in both markets for casual fans. A 5pm Saturday Auckland kickoff is a 7am Joburg kickoff, which rules out all but the most hardcore fans.

It makes far, far more sense for SA to be in European competitions as you agree. But without SA its just not sustainable to have Oz & NZ play only each other. They need more teams to play against, and Japan / the Pacific Islands / the US / Argentina would provide it. And it would benefit the game hugely in those countries while we're at it.

Longer term throwing the US, Argentina, Chile, Canada and Brazil into their own Americas competition would probably be better, but its unlikely to be sustainable right now - whereas a Pacific Rim competition would be.

Ben Bailey

from BBC Sport

Scotland legend John Jeffrey said he feels "hurt, bitter and betrayed" as the former flanker ended his bid to become chairman of World Rugby after failing to secure the support of his own union.

Jeffrey is the vice-chairman of the game's governing body and was considered the favourite to succeed Sir Bill Beaumont as head of World Rugby in November.

But the 65-year-old, one of the stars of Scotland's 1990 Grand Slam-winning team, was informed on Friday that Scottish Rugby would not be backing his candidacy.

Jeffrey was chairman of the Scottish Rugby Limited Board from 2020-23 and was told various aspects of his performance in that role were the reasons he could not be supported in his bid to be chair of World Rugby.

"I'm very bitter. I'm very upset - very, very upset. To be beaten by your own country really, really hurts," he told BBC Sport Scotland.

"It came as a huge shock. It doesn't reflect well on us as a country. People are now laughing at us - 'you said you were standing and now you're not'.

"I don't know if they are laughing at me or if they're laughing at Scottish Rugby, but they're certainly laughing. It does not reflect well on the [SRU] board.

In light of Scottish Rugby's decision, Jeffrey is resigning as president of the Six Nations and as an executive board member, council member and vice-chairman of World Rugby.

He is retiring from all rugby union administration in order to return to his farm in Kelso in the Borders.

His withdrawal means the race for arguably the most powerful role in the game is down to former France back row Abdelatif Benazzi, ex-Australia flanker Brett Robinson and professor Andrea Rinaldo, the former Italy lock.

pickarooney

I think it reflects very well on the SRU that they consider his poor performance in his previous job more important than his nationality.

AbusesToilets

Out with the dinosaurs please.

FtD v2

This Bledisloe game this morning has been a really enjoyable watch. Some cracking attacking rugby on both sides.

testtech05

Not sure how the Tmo didn't call back that last tackle by NZ looked to me like initial hit by savea was shoulder to the head and TJ looked high aswell joining in before he got on the ball.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638918#Comment_122638918

Yeah clear high shot from TJ and Dickson refuses to review it, then even more annoyingly takes the school teacher tone and gets snippy with Harry Wilson who rightfully asked him to review it.

Decides the game. Sick to death of those three English refs in particular who seem to love making themselves star of the show.

ersatz

Razor has not improved the all. Blacks at all. Lethal on counter attack and great at exploiting mistakes but they got away with it tonight. Dickson was very generous to them on a few occasions and if Oz hadn’t sleep walked through the first 20 it would have been a different outcome.

TheRona

NZ make too many lapses defensively. They aren't playing well, but it would be hard to pick out any particular players who aren't playing well individually. It seems like they're still lacking a lot of cohesion.

Both teams could have scored several more tries if it wasn't for poor execution and/or poor decision making.

Caleb Clark was completely brain-dead making the play that got him yellow-carded when they were already a man down, and I just don't get the point of Sevu Reece. With the amount of wingers NZ have to choose from, they should be giving someone else a go.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638923#Comment_122638923

In fairness the ref did say it had been reviewed and the TMO said it was fine. That ones on the TMO.

Clegg

Argentina desperately needed that try. South Africa were dominant and up 0-17 after 13 minutes.

Now 7-17.

Clegg

Argentina winning 28-27 with two minutes remaining.

Clegg

Ah Jaysus.

Argentina infringe offside in their own half following a South Africa scrum. Boks have a kick to win it.

Clegg

Libbok misses!

Still 30 seconds left following an Argentina dropout.

techdiver

That's a bullshit penalty. Hendrikse dives on the player trying to roll away.

Edit: Justice

Clegg

Pumas win!

Shehal

Ireland back to being the best team on planet earth again!

thebaz

Brilliant from the Pumas, great atmosphere , love seeing this SA team on the wrong side

ruggaman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641465#Comment_122641465

nope,but u already knew that.that if were good u would get pat a 1/4 final when all teams actually play for something.stuck to ur Autumn wins

StevenToast

Argentina will be Irelands toughest opponent this Autumn.....

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642081#Comment_122642081

Maybe, kind of depends what team turns up. Amazing yesterday but Argentina are wildly inconsistent as well. They have seldom troubled us at the Aviva.

Jacovs

I didnt watch the game, went a bit heavy on the brandewyn and coke after the Currie Cup final, (how the **** do you throw away a win like that @ Lions?), so I didnt make it to the 23:00 kick off. Cant comment on any part of the game without having seen any of it, but I did see video of the missed kick at the end. Not much you can say about that. I think they went the wrong way around, shouldve played Libbok first and then Pollard off the bench, like they did twice in the world cup. If it comes down to a kick deciding the game then you have Pollard taking it, not Libbok. I dont see us losing again coming saturday at home, but anything is possible.

Quin_Dub

Both games saw one team race out to a big early lead only to be hauled back.

New Zealand hung on , but SA got beaten (Libbock again showing that he should not be the front-line kicker).

That's multiple games now in this years competition following a similar pattern.

Not sure if it means anything , just unusual for it to happen so often in short order.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644489#Comment_122644489

Is there no one else who can reliably kick in the starters? SA would kill for another Montgomery slotting kicks for them. Libbock shouldn't be asked to kick given his inconsistencies.

Jacovs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645521#Comment_122645521

The team who started on saturday, nobody else kicks as far as im aware. Of those who came on from the bench, Jaden Hendrikse has kicked before, but mainly during his u-20 time it seems. He was on the field when Libbok took that kick, but you wouldnt have him kick over Libbok, thats Libbok's job and wasnt the hardest kick. Having a less than part time kicker take the kick over a recognised kicker would severely damage the kicker mentally. But as it turned out having the recognised kicker take this particular kick ended up with the same result anyways.

Maybe Jaden's brother, Jordan, can come do the kicking, he slotted a 59 meter penalty after the final whistle to win the Currie Cup final for the Sharks saturday afternoon, against his former team. He goes between flyhalf, centre and full back, could be a useful addition to the squad and a kicking option.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645611#Comment_122645611

The new guy Feinberg-Mngomezulu looks like he's the perfect blend between Libbock and Pollard.

Has all the attacking flair of Libbock, and looks like he's a more than capable kicker.

But SA need to find another decent kicker to have in the squad playing somewhere other than 10 to give them depth/cover.

AbusesToilets

Also, Libbock didn't cause the team to miss like 30 tackles and give up a massive lead

testtech05

Karl Dixon trying his best to get NZ a penalty for that knock on there.

TheRona

Aussie get warned of a yellow after multiple offside infringements. NZ get warned after one offside infringement.

Jacovs

Dejavu?

Jacovs

Nah, killed them.

icdg

ITV have agreed a two year extension for the FTA rights to PRL (which according to one media outlet I saw recently they apparently aren’t paying a penny for)

As part of the deal they’ve reworked the highlights show as a Wednesday night (or, er morning in the case of the first episode!) magazine format. With Tick-Tockers apparently.

https://www.itv.com/rugby/articles/premiership-rugby-extends-free-to-air-deal-with-itv

arsebiscuits1

@Lost Ormond point taken on threading

This shouldn't be in this thread(too often case on here thesedays... ) could these posts go to a new thread or the general rugby discussion mods?

Problem with training refs in what way? How would you suggest training of officials change?

What of law changes made in past 20 years haven't helped refs and what would you change to help refs make it a better game for all.

So my issue is I don't feel the work behind the scenes is sufficient to improve refs who have deficiencies in their game (and as I stated in my post - they're human. They all have deficiencies in some shape or form)

We see the WRU, SRU and IRFU and probably other unions have high performance ref managers, there is also a URC referee manager. I don't see this as a positive structure that will foster a lot of joined up thinking and working to the same hymn sheet. That's before you even consider World Rugbys refereeing department too.

Using Irish refs as an example. One of them refs a pro game. Both their union manager and the URC will be giving them feedback on that. How do you ensure that messaging is consistent? Back to the human element, corporate egos exist here, it happens in every industry. Clashes and difference of opinion are common. Having worked in high performance for a number of years I can tell you that the some egos in that world are very highly inflated as it is 😂 By one persons metrics a referee might have had a good game where as by another they might have had a bad one.

What we see is the same refs with the same flaws they've had for years. Refs with a bullish demeanour that leads to poor rapport with players, refs who flip flop on decisions. A big one is what I call "zone based refereeing" it's not an uncommon theory in referee analysis. Basically some refs are overly prone to making certain decisions or changing their interpretations based on where play is on the pitch. This is fixable. This is something that can be fed back and worked on. But in so many cases it just isn't

The point I make on World Rugby is that I think they started making changing and focusing in on certain rules of the game without seemingly realising that if you were to implement every rule in the game, the game would not happen. So at times they're arbitrarily going all in on some rules whilst ignoring others. And they'll be very hot on some rules for a few months and then just quietly ignore them again. Look at the crooked scrum feeds, look at the high tackles (there was a brief moment the last decade where head contact regardless of body position of either player was to be penalised), look at the punishment based solely on consequence not action, look at the deliberate knock ons interpretation. There are heaps of examples.

sydthebeat

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/ex-wallabies-star-set-for-shock-move-to-new-zealand-super-rugby-powerhouse-report#:~:text=The%20Crusaders%20are%20set%20to,2025%20Super%20Rugby%20Pacific%20season.

James o connor reportedly close to a move to the Crusaders.

Not sure hes the answer to their current woes.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122675829#Comment_122675829

And that's confirmed today.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/41599731/former-wallabies-star-james-oconnor-seals-super-rugby-deal-crusaders

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682335#Comment_122682335

Strange enough move for them.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682364#Comment_122682364

I dare say after last year there have been panic buttons pressed all over Canterbury.

The only really have reihana and hoepa currently on the books as fly halves, now that burke is gone to sarries. I'm not sure if they made any effort to get mounga back from Japan, but I reckon razor likely made inquires from the higher level.

One year contract to be the senior fly half in the club screams "stop gap"

FtD v2

Don’t think it’s been discussed on here- but supposed to be a lot of grumbling down South about France’s decision to not pick their strongest squad to tour NZ next summer during the Lions tour.

The French have said they won’t select players who play in the Top14 finals.

Not wholly inconsistent behaviour from the French who never seem to pick strong squads for summer tours, but I get why the Kiwis are frustrated.

NZ should respond by simply opting not to play the French in November windows for a few years.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683320#Comment_122683320

It's hardly surprising, it is standard MO for the French really at this point. But I think its a pretty worrying situation - the T14 is incredibly successful and well done to them, but it doesn't seem like it is something that can be replicated elsewhere and I worry about it somewhat cannibalising the international game.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683347#Comment_122683347

Yeah, that’s it for me.

It is brilliant for the French how strong financially their game is, but there needs to be a bit of give and take here. Some unions are financially in relatively poor position.

It is very tough to sell these games out if it’s a largely second choice French side.

It’s not an inconsistent decision with what they’ve done in the past, and I know their hands are tied by the clubs to a certain extent, but it still feels a bit selfish and ****.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683347#Comment_122683347

Indeed - I saw an article a while back that showed that outside of World Cups, DuPont has not played for France outside of Europe since his debut season which is incredible really.

AbusesToilets

There's an argument that a lot of the financial and schedule issues in the game are directly tied to the French. The Top 14 is such a dominant force, it really impacts everyone else massively

FtD v2

https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-2024-lipovitan-d-challenge-cup-and-northern-tour

Interesting-ish All Blacks squad for the November series. Cam Roigard comes back in at 9, and some guys like Perofeta and Ruben Love have kept their places. David Havili probably a more surprising selection for me.

The guys who have missed out are Finlay Christie, Hoskins Sotutu (again) and someone like Harry Plummer and Noah Hotham who both made debuts relatively recently but miss out here.

They’ll both probably be in the All Black XV selection though.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122693985#Comment_122693985

They are in the AB xv selection, which is, in my opinion, much more interesting than this boring AB test side thats coming up here.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2024/10/08/all-blacks-xv-squad-named-for-the-2024-northern-tour/#:~:text=Munster%20will%20be%20welcoming%20the,Scott%20Robertson%20and%20Clayton%20McMillan.

Forwards (17) 

Props
Xavier Numia (25 / Hurricanes / Wellington)
George Dyer (24/ Chiefs / Waikato)
Saula Ma’u (24 / Highlanders / Otago)
Marcel Renata (30 / Blues / Auckland)
George Bower (32 / Crusaders / Otago)*

Hookers 
Brodie McAlister (27 / Crusaders / Canterbury)
Kurt Eklund (32 / Blues / Bay of Plenty)
Bradley Slater (26 / Chiefs / Taranaki)

Locks 
Josh Lord (23 / Chiefs / Taranaki)*
Fabian Holland (21 / Highlanders / Otago)
Isaia Walker-Leawere (27 / Hurricanes / Hawke’s Bay)
Naitoa Ah Kuoi (25 / Chiefs / Bay of Plenty)

Loose Forwards 
Du’Plessis Kirifi (27 / Hurricanes / Wellington)
Peter Lakai (21/ Hurricanes / Wellington)
Hoskins Sotutu (26 / Blues / Counties Manukau)*
Oliver Haig (22 / Highlanders / Otago)
Christian Lio-Willie (26 / Crusaders / Otago)

Backs (12)

Halfbacks
Noah Hotham (21 / Crusaders / Tasman)*
Finlay Christie (29 / Blues / Tasman)*

First five-eighths
Harry Plummer (26 / Blues / Auckland)*
Josh Jacomb (23 / Chiefs / Taranaki)

Mid-fielders
Quinn Tupaea (25 / Chiefs / Waikato)*
Riley Higgins (22 / Hurricanes / Wellington)
AJ Lam (26 / Blues / Auckland)
Dallas McLeod (25 / Crusaders / Canterbury)*

Outside Backs 
Kiniviliame Naholo (25 / Hurricanes / Taranaki)
Emoni Narawa (25 / Chiefs / Bay of Plenty)*
Chay Fihaki (23 / Crusaders / Canterbury)
Shaun Stevenson (27 / Chiefs / North Harbour)*

sydthebeat

Poor Ben healys status at Edinburgh has fallen.

Hes starting for Edinburgh "A" versus bath tomorrow while the first team play the sharks with Ross Thompson starting and no real recognisable 10 on the bench (cameron scott has 1 cap for embra at 10)