Took an internal promotion but not enjoying it

mick743

This is a bit embarrassing but…

I was an individual contributor in a technical role. I enjoyed my job, was seen as a high performer, in addition to the technical stuff I enjoyed the communication side of it. Always expressed an ambition for a more senior role.

My manager left the company during covid and I interviewed for his role and got it. That was 8 months ago. There was a salary increase but also a notice period increase to 6 months (!) which I agreed to (after failing to negotiate it down).

While the team I manage are hard workers, I’m finding it all such a struggle. They are relatively junior so it’s very time consuming delegating and reviewing work. My calendar is ridiculously busy. I feel the team’s engagement is slowly slipping due to full time WFH (due to covid), lack of interaction and increasing workload. It should be my job to motivate them but I can barely motivate myself these days.

There’s upward pressure on work, downward pressure on headcount/costs, everyone is busier than ever, I feel as well as being a people leader I need to be the technical expert on the team as I’m consulted every time something gets difficult. I could work around the clock and still not be on top of everything. It seems odd but the busier I am and the more stressed I get, the more I procrastinate and the less hours I’m actually working - which is probably adding to the problem as more things are not being done etc.

Part of me thinks: just stick with it for a few more months. Once we get back to office (with hybrid WFH) and I have a few months more experience in the role, some of these problems like engagement / time taken to delegate will sort themselves out and I’ll become a bit more comfortable with all the new things I’m having to learn.

Another part of me regrets ever taking the role. I’d love to transport back to my old IC job and although less salary, I just did what I was told, no politics, no taking responsibility for everything etc, no screen-sharing for hours each day trying to explain things to the team. But I can’t really ask for a step back internally (especially after so little time), it would reflect quite poorly on me. If I moved company, how would I explain this in an interview without seeming like I can’t hack the role or I’m bad at the job.

Any thoughts welcome, I don’t know if this is a common thought process or not!

You're going to have to decide whether you want to stick it out or not - I don't think anyone here can make that decision for you.

If you do decide to stay, you need a new strategy for how you're handling this role. There's probably an awful lot your manager was doing for you that you didn't know about. They knew your capabilities, your limitations, when to give you a challenge, and when to push back to stop the management s**t flowing downriver to you. One of the most important jobs for a manager in a project-based role is to know when to step in and protect their staff from unreasonable demands, politics, and pressure. To assess what can reasonably be done, who's going to do it, and be upfront about what isn't gonna make it into the 'Done' column. That way, staff can stay focused, morale stays up, and expectations remain in reality.

As for the delegation, don't feel like you need to answer everything yourself. If a junior staff member asks a question, there might be another junior that knows the answer. Get to know everyone's strengths, give the same tasks to the same people repeatedly, build up subject experts in your team so that they can support each other. Let them feel they have areas of ownership. If you think something's googleable/researchable, it's not a crime to simply say 'I don't have time now, can you look into this yourself in the meantime?'. Let people know why you can't take a call right now - it's good for them to know what's going on in the team and to know that you have your reasons.

The last thing I would add is, if you're used to being a high performer, you maybe need to let that go. You're responsible for other people's work now - you can't expect to push people the same way you would push yourself. When it comes to headcount/costs/workload pressure, you can't let your desire to impress overrule your responsibility to look after junior staff's welfare/morale. Even if you're only letting it get to you internally, trust me it will have an effect on your team.

But I'm no expert, just my 2 cents.

Connacht15

I was promoted to a line supervisor on a production line once.

The factory in Galway was the usual west of Ireland shyte - worker abusers to the last!

I earned 10 Euros more than the other workers on the line per week.

There was no aptitude test to get in there and it was at a time - early Celtic Pussy days when it was an employees market, which will never ever happen again or be allowed to!

On my line,

I had a man in his 30s who used to leave the smell out of his arse - the odour of his essence - behind him on the seat when he stood up from it!

An ass hole in his mid 20s who was related to the sales manager but was told at school post inter cert by his teachers to leave as he was to thick to continue! Then he went 'working' in a factory where his father was a big knob, 3-6 months down the line a deputation of lads from the shopfloor went up to his aul lad and gave him a him or us ultimatum, so he had to be got rid!

And beaut of beauts a fcukdog, the biggest loon, I ever met as an adult with an assortment of mental health problems even down to a tourette syndrome fcuking head twitch, who was when he was landed on top of me, the general manager knew his father, in the process of being brought up on charges fro petrol bombing the premises of his previous employer!

At a later date, he was barred from his workplace canteen for putting stuff through peoples' food! And that's only a small example of his insanity!

Now that's a difficult promotion to take.

Don't forget I also had jealous, embittered fcukwits and rednecks there as well.

What did I do - well essentially my role was to be a shield for management who mostly themselves would not have been tolerated anywhere else either and who earned a minimum of two and a half times what I was getting! And I was also taking flack form the shytehawks on my line!

I had to wait until what I knew would inevitably happen, happened - they turned on each other on the line and then I could divide and conquer!

My advice to you is the first few months in any job are usually the toughest don't rush to give up!

Fighting Tao

I know a guy who requested a demotion after a few years in a manager role. The company gave it to him as he was a valuable member of staff. You could always ask for the same if not happy.

JimmyVik

Same kind of story from me.

I was in a company for a good while. Happy enough to keep doing my job.

They offered me a promotion into management and i took it.

About 2 years of it and id had enough. Horrible job. you get nothing done yourself in it and its no fun at all.

So I asked to go back to my old job.

They said no, so i handed in my notice.

Then they came back and told me i could have my old job back, with a nice raise so i stayed.

It wasnt long before they were just treating me like i was still in the management role.

Gave my notice again and gave that as a reason. Got another raise and stayed under the condition that i wasnt managing or mentoring people, Give me the work and i'll do it.

Roll on another year and i was mentoring and being given more responsibility again. So every year now i just ask for a raise and i get it.

Whenever stuff gets on top of me i just say - im not the manager here, you are and walk away.

Its not as bad as it was but once in that role they wont let you out of it completely, so just keep asking for raises.

When it gets too much just leave.

Also, never sign a new contract that states you dont get overtime. I had to get that taken out of my contract when i demoted myself :)

Over the years that overtime is enough to buy a house outright. So dont sign it away with a promotion.

embraer170

What you describe in your 3rd and 4th paragraphs is probably the experience of most new managers.

When I started in management, I got the shock to realise that most people aren't independent high performing individuals but instead needy and for the most part lazy. I found the double pressure (upwards from my stuff, and downwards from management) a struggle to deal with, with my calendar packed with pointless meetings most of the day (which I have to be part of because I am the manager).

I am not actually sure it gets much better as time goes by, but instead you start worrying less and accept it as part of the job.

Have you had the chance to do any management training? Would your company pay for some coaching? LinkedIn learning has some good courses (worth the subscription). Otherwise, I found Radical Candour to be a pretty decent read: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kim-Scott/dp/B01KTIEFEE.

caviardreams

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640040#Comment_117640040

OP and embraer I could have written exactly what you said word for word. Makes me feel a bit better to be honest. If you are a motivated, high performer who has initiative, the biggest shock may be having to solve every little problem for everyone else, making their decisions as they don't want to take any personal responsibility and just want to "Blame" the boss for everything that's not going right for them, and chasing up and cajoling constantly in a "nice" way without putting pressure on people. I thought people would thrive from being given autonomy and freedom to get the work done as they wish, and to take ownership and grow their role and come up with new ideas. How wrong I was - a lot of people need and want to be told exactly what do to down to the last detail so they don't even have to think for themselves, and if you don't spell out everything step by step, explicitly and to the last letter nothing gets done.

Like yourself, I am a new manager during covid and I do hope that with more on-site working it will mean less support day to day for people as they might check in with people sitting beside them more, and stay a bit more engaged and focused without reminding/following up. I also think managing your former peers (if you are) is an added complication too as there can be a lack of respect shown to you.

But as somebody else said, you do start to get used to it a bit and/or it bothers you less. Also, I am trying to develop better boundaries and limits on how much time I can give people and being clearer on that, and saying things like: I only have X time as I am spread across the team, so you'll need to stay on track with this yourself. I'm here for any roadblocks that stop you moving forward yourself, not for the day to day etc. where I need you do keep on top of things. I'm still making up my mind if it is for me though.

So great to feel it's a common struggle though!

BrianD3

When you are consulted on every little thing ask yourself are you providing them with fish when you could be teaching them how to fish. I was a junior manager for many years and this was always my strategy. It takes a bit of effort and, openness and good communication but it helps enormously in the long run. Some managers don't seem to get this, either they are insecure and tight with information or alternatively they don't know their staff well/are lacking awareness. The latter can be an issue with high performers who subconsciously assume that because they know something, that everyone must, therefore no explanations are necessary. Result is staff not knowing the background/context/whys behind the work and constantly asking the manager to hold their hand.

backwards_man

I had the same experience when I got my first IT management role. I was doing some of my team's work as well as my own, taking responsibility for everything and working 55-60 hour weeks. Over time I learned what I needed to be involved in and what I didnt. I learned to cut short the moaners and whingers who come to you with their persoanl issues, write essays in emails to explain why they didnt do something or other, and who will do everthing but their work but are the first to complain. Its a learning curve but you will find your own style. If you truely do not want to be a people manager then consider moving to another company in your old role, its not really feasible to go back to being an IC on your own team.

6 month notice period is insane. But it is negotiable. They cannot hold you to it. They can put you on gardening leave if you are in sales or commercially sensitive role. Otherwise if you get another job work with them to get a handover done and get out sooner, like 1-2 months. I had a 3 month notice and got agreement to leave after 2. I could have walked out after 1 month, the company will not persue it, unless you are CEO or something they wont bother.

tobottherobot

OP I was in a very similar position to you quite recently and took an internal promotion managing a team in a large MNC. I am an experienced people manager had managed relatively large teams before (8 mid-level managers) but it doubled in my new role.

People management is not easy and there is always problems to deal with.. I don't think that ever goes.... as someone else said, most team members aren't high performing, self-starters. But you accept it and that's why you got a salary increase.

The more concerning part for me is the upward pressure on output and downward pressure on costs on top of an already jammed diary. Speaking from experience, that's a dangerous trifecta and will soon start to manifest itself in stress and exhaustion if you're not careful.

On your point about how you would explain the what happened if you were trying to move to another company.. Personally, I wouldnt worry about that. The fact you got the job in the first place is a very good sign for a prospective employer and if you get an interview to begin with, the likely aren't too concerned.

If I was in your position, I'd be looking to give myself some options so that you can weigh up the pro's and con's of each: stay in role -v- move employer -v- ask for demotion. Get in touch with some recruiters and see if they have suitable roles coming on stream. At least then if you do decide to stay in the role, you'll be more comfortable knowing you gave it your full consideration

FWIW that's what I did and I left and got a new job as an individual contibutor and actually ended up getting a higher salary.

mikemac2

Not embarrassing at all OP, many of us have been there

As a pretty reliable worker who needed little supervision I reckoned most others were like me but it isn’t the case at all. I was managing graduates (hey I was young once too) and ended up having to sort petty nonsense like some staff running out the door and the conscientious staff staying late but they got bitter and resentful and who could blame them. Shouting matches between staff sometimes on the office floor and I had to call people into meeting rooms, I would prefer a flat out workload for myself all week than deal with this nonsense.

VP’s using me a dog to kick around so I had pressure downwards and upwards. I also got no overtime, it was standard as a supervisor to give up OT. Never again

I resigned and have no ambitions to a people manager anymore. Maybe I’m like Steve Staunton, good reliable player and rubbish manager!! :p

If you can find the right role you can earn more being an expert in an area. I’m no expert but I earn more with less stress than that supervisor job. Good luck OP

embraer170

How is it working out for you OP?

I had one of my team members dump news on me that she was planning to leave the team just the afternoon I was going on my summer break. That was after over a year of heavy investment in her, training and upskilling for a very specific role. Just reminded me once again why being a manager is sometimes no fun.

mick743

Hi all

OP here - just wanted to thank everyone for the responses. It’s reassuring to know I’m not the only one in the situation, and that other new managers have also found it difficult balancing the upward/downward/sideward pressure that I seem to be constantly under.

I haven’t made any decisions yet. I am hoping a return to the office improves things somewhat - I just find it so demotivating being alone in my house, taking on a shed ton of responsibility, meetings and ‘urgent’ actions without any 3D contact with anybody.

I might talk to a recruiter at some point just to see what’s out there. It might help me figure out what I do or don’t want in any case.

Thanks again

mick743v2

Hi all

OP here (had to set up 2nd a/c as can’t get into original).

Thanks again for all advice. Still in same role, still feel burnt out but it’s been good food for thought.

I haven’t mentioned this to my manager yet. A gap is soon coming up on another similar team (but not the team I manage). It’s a more junior role, but would mean more technical and less management which I’d prefer.

Pros: same company, would reduce notice period (which would help future options), I’d have less stress, and at least there’d be a smooth transition for my replacement as i’m not leaving

Cons: my manager may say no (more difficult to backfill a manager than a junior perhaps), the internal optics may be poor (although if I’m less interested in climbing the career ladder, this doesn’t really matter?), because I was the manager I might end up getting asked to do some of this in an ‘unofficial’ capacity, might never ‘finish’ handover as I’m constantly roped into old role work, CV might look strange to move from mgmt. to technical role within same company

Does anyone have experience of this? I don’t know anyone who has stepped back internally, but I suppose the opportunity doesn’t always come up.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639931#Comment_117639931

What kind of job you in? IT?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497562#Comment_118497562

Unfortunately, I think you are right to be paying close attention to the Cons.

You can expect that if you do go in this new but junior role that your progress within the company will effectively come to a halt. And that might neither be a surprise, or a disappointment to you in simple terms but if the company and your colleagues see the only reason you go in to this role is because it will be less intense and less pressure then they are likely not going to forget it. This might not mean anything too serious but any judgement you pass on management styles or practices in future will likely be given little or no regard is one thing that maybe comes to mind, which again, might not be a big deal. Hopefully it won't happen but if downsizing redundancy type conversations come up in future, they are more likely to look in your direction as you may have shown your limits more so than someone who hasn't and talks the talk.

Is there anything about the role that is particularly interesting which you could focus on in saying that that is what is motivating you to take a step back just to get involved in it or will it be obvious to everyone that you are stepping back because you don't enjoy this role?

It is a tough position to be in, I did similar, but left the company in order to build up experience in a technical role after having been in management for years and was asked about staying the company but moving in to the type of role I'm in now but decided against it for some of the reasons above amongst others.

Has there been any improvement since you you started the thread? Can you see some progress within the team or your situation that could mean there's light at the end of the tunnel? The nature of management is of course dealing with problems, and one thing I learned about managing people is that the problems are never gone, you'll solve one issue, and a new one will crop up, that's just the reality of it. I did see something in a manager in a previous company which I think is big, if you can do it, and that is to leave work at work. This guy could be arguing with you in a meeting at 4.30 and meet you in the carpark at 5 and be as cheerful as if he was about to go on holidays for 2 weeks. Have you asked your current manager to engage or facilitate you in a structured program to overcome the issues you are having?

BASHIR

No shame in enjoying a more technical role over a management role. You need to decide which role leads to a happier life, as ultimately that is what's more important in my opinion.

@Connacht15

@Connacht15 "early Celtic Pussy days when it was an employees market, which will never ever happen again or be allowed to!"

That didn't last long, it's a definite employee's market right now.

Flinty997

Can you pick the best of your team to do the training with the others. It would lighten your load.

Connacht15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614532#Comment_118614532

In the West of Ireland it most certainly remains an employers' market!

And I suspect through most of the country and the majority of industries!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627167#Comment_118627167

I'm in the west of Ireland.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627167#Comment_118627167

I'm not in the west of Ireland but I can't believe that. All the remote positions being offered at the moment in the IT sector you could be on the moon and still get a job. Work with a lot of recruiters and all I'm hearing at the moment that it's the hardest its been in 30 or 40 years to find employees.

Mrs OBumble

Can't speak for other companies. But mine has hired a few who were going to be 100% remote, and live a good distance away.

About 1/2 of them quit within 2 months, because they got better offers elsewhere: if they'd have to move here, it would have been an upfront test of commitment to the job. But with no move, they were happy to burn bridges.

We now look for local or planning to move closer, even for jobs that are 100% WFH.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627962#Comment_118627962

Nonsense, every 2-bit college, ETB and PLC course are producing IT graduates.

The problem, if there is one, is that the Industry is not willing to take on inexperinced people. Thankfully the electrical and plumbing industries are not as up their own arses as the IT folk are or else we'd all be shitting in a bucket in darkness

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637067#Comment_118637067

I’d be very very surprised if they were stuck for work if they had an interest in IT. Doing a course is one thing. Actually being interested in IT is very different. There’s very little cost in writing code. Anyone I’ve interviewed I’d always ask them what their personal project is. They needn’t have gone to college at all if they can show they’ve interest and keen to learn.

Flinty997

Regards IT I would agree. We only hire mostly over qualified people who never stay. We don't hire junior people internally or externally and mentor them to grow into a role.

Liberty_Bear

Hey buddy

Sorry to read about the stress that you are under.

My own background. I jumped a few grades into management and was thrown into the deep end a couple of years ago. Took me a good six months to earn my spurs and I had never managed staff before . I had a key learning experience from another senior manager who asked me to ascertain what skills my staff had, identify the gaps but to trust them when I delegated. Still I do spot checks once in a while but I am very lassiez faire when it comes to it. I focus on motivating, coaching and training and praising where necessary to give my staff the push they need.

When you junior staff doing projects would it be possible to (as with maybe programming) to let them do the job but just let them approach you if there are issues. Delegate to them and trust them with what they are doing. Check in once a week that they are focused, offer some encourgement and let them know they have the support where needed. Now that might not be possible but I hope it might give you a different way of thinking.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637224#Comment_118637224

Do you also ask your doctor what his personal project is? Ask your car mechanic if he is tinkering on a car outside his work hours? Ask your dentist does he volunteer to go round the homeless providing treatment as his pet project? I'm going to guess no.

I suppose it's good you ask that question. Allows people who actually have a life avoid your company.

You know there is a probation period that allows you get rid of people fairly easily if they show no willingness to learn, probably the easiest in the EU. There is no risk in taking on inexperience young people and absoluley no need to expect people to work on projects in their personal time.

If they are graduates, they would have worked on assignments or projects. If they have some experience, they would have worked on their employer's projects. Personal project is exactly the jumped up bullshit in IT that I was referring to.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637966#Comment_118637966

😂 outstanding. Nuts stuff.

Would you not ask a graphic designer, photographer, writer for their own portfolio?

Hired a lot of people through the years in IT, the best ones are the ones that have had their side projects making them a few bob, tinkering at things out of interest, the worst have been the ones that come in with nothing.

There's obviously a lot of risk too training up the wrong person, a lot of time effort cost involved in training someone, if they don't suit it's money / time down the drain.

Outa here, I should know better than to feed the trolls.

Flinty997

The best people have an interest beyond just doing the job.

mick743v2

Hi all

OP here - following up on my situation. Always hate when these threads don’t get any update.

Can’t believe it’s been a year since I set up this thread. While the situation has improved somewhat - the team have built experience, luckily nobody has left so there’s more knowledge built up now then previously.

However after a lot of contemplation, being honest with myself I don’t enjoy management work particularly in a WFH situation. It’s not just the people management but it’s the politics, the constant pressure from senior mgmt. to make project timelines more and more ambitious and endless virtual meetings meaning I can’t get anything actually done. I can do the job well but it’s draining a lot from me, mostly feel burnt out / fatigued.

I found a new job in a small startup. Will be completely different from my current global corporate but I’ll be a technical individual contributor again, and to be honest I just prefer learning new things myself rather than coaching others. Same money as I’m currently on.

I’ve handed in my notice in the current company. They’re a bit flabbergasted as I’m highly regarded with upward potential. But I think it’s the right move, just need to experience something different. While a startup might be a bit chaotic compared to an established global corporate, it seems like a cool company.

Thanks again for all the advice.