An Post returning packages from outside the EU-See 1st post

deezell

The crux of the problem is the returning of items that are clearly deliverable IF anPost follows hundreds of years of worldwide practice. There are only a few reasons not to deliver.

Address does not exist.

Good are restricted or illegal.

Receiver fails to pay duty and taxes

Goods are lost

AnPost, and AnPost alone it seems, have added a whole load more reasons, which contradict common sense and established practice. No business is going to continuously repost items for repeated shipping costs when they have no idea how many times it will be returned, so they just blacklist this country as having a dysfunctional postal service. €15 is easily the margin on a modest sale. No point getting stung again.

labrik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957325#Comment_117957325

Finally after two months, my package containing two cds has arrived. The Seller, Dais records had to re-send it. They put the value at 0 on the back of the package as it was re-send due to a return. Thanks to everyone on here who was so full of advice and has kept up the good fight. I don't often send off for stuff in the post and will be waiting a while before sending off for anything that is coming from outside the EU. I'll still be here for any info. Good luck with your packages.

30 September 2021 08:36

We delivered your post PORTLAOISE D.S.U., CO LAOIS

30 September 2021 07:01

Your post is out for delivery PORTLAOISE D.S.U., CO LAOIS

29 September 2021 16:04

Your delivery has been sorted DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

29 September 2021 14:13

We have your post in DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

28 September 2021 18:32

Custom charges have been paid. Your item will be processed and delivered to you as soon as possible. Please hold tight while we work through high volumes.

27 September 2021 13:29

Your delivery has been sorted DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

27 September 2021 13:27

We have your post in DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

24 September 2021 16:35

Your delivery has been sorted DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

24 September 2021 16:31

We have your post in DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

24 September 2021 16:30

Your delivery was received by An Post in DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12

22 September 2021 13:42

Your item is in Ireland. A customs charge has been applied and details have been sent to you. You can pay the fee on our website, or at your local Post Office.

Flaccus

Well my parcel from Ebay UK which was sorted 17 times has suddenly dropped off the tracker as if it never existed. Ignored when enquired about paying import VAT. Was eventually told over Twitter DM, that customs have it and it may get returned as no electronic customs declaration but they might accept the physical one. That was a week ago.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960090#Comment_117960090

Customs always had the power to refuse entry to foreign parcels. A new power given to them is refusal on grounds of absence of EAD, or incorrect EAD. So you can add that to your list. The information is on the websites of foreign countries. This is what Australia says.

Electronic Advance Data (EAD)

Many countries require data about articles and express letters to be sent in advance, for better border protection and security. Without this, your items may be delayed or returned to sender.

Learn what you need to do when sending to these destinations.

What is EAD?

Electronic Advance Data (EAD) is an essential part of sending items overseas, where your item requires a customs declaration to be completed. It gives the customs officials in the destination country all the information they need to complete their inspections.

To improve border control and security, we need to digitally capture and transmit information for your items to the applicable destination countries. This data includes the sender’s and receiver’s details and article contents, and is sent in advance to the customs officials in the destination country prior to the item physically arriving at the border.

If customs data has not been transmitted in advance to a country that requires EAD, your items may be refused entry.

And the Royal Mail / Parcel Force says this.

Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad (excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22 or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.

As of 1 June 2021, all Royal Mail shipping systems will require mandatory electronic customs data, to ship items internationally.

Jersey Post seems to explain it fairly well

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=999448130580856

NZ post

https://www.nzpost.co.nz/personal/sending-in-nz/customs-declarations-consignment-notes/changes-to-global-customs-clearance-requirements

For most countries, it is recommended to provide a 6-digit HS Tariff Number for commercial items. 

For some destinations, such as Ireland, it is mandatory to include a 6-digit HS Tariff number or 10-digit TARIC number for all items.

Hippodrome Song Owl

Does An Post make it clear that they require a 10-digit TARIC code? That is the reason my parcel was rejected the second time - only a 6-digit code used. Is this a change in regulations to require the longer code? Is there a definitive guide to when one is needed versus the shorter code, or is it now always the longer code required?

deezell

That's the thing. I have yet to see a step by step layman's guide to what exactly AnPost require. The label, the fields on it, the spacing between lines, maximum characters, fonts and so on ( you'll find this on royal mail site, but it doesn't seem to satisfy AnPost judging by UK returns).

If they gave examples of perfectly formatted labels, and of erroneous ones. The same goes for the electronic data. What file type and format. CSV text, or XML or whatever, examples and rules. They are requesting electronic format, but rejecting on the basis of printed labels, while all the correct information is actually there.

Their taric finder;

https://www.anpost.com/Commerce/Parcel-Solutions/International-Parcels/Find-a-TARIC-Commodity-code

let's you enter a description, or a code if you already have it. It will convert a HS6 6 digit code to a '"suitable 10 digit code for IE import" , which is your existing label (and, presumably, electronic data) code with 4 digits added on. If they are rejecting 6 digit codes and returning parcels, while at the same time they can instantly generate the 10 digit version, then wtf is going on. They could do this at scan time. It's an extra useless piece if data which apparently you can get without explanation from AnPost, automatically from a web app. Its beyond belief.

innuendo141

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961652#Comment_117961652

An Post absolutely makes none of this clear. Half the stories I'm reading I don't know if its an incorrect code, or the correct code but NOT electronic. Whatever about the current mess that's going on, the instructions STILL aren't clear, and @Convolved 's post above backs this up.

cnocbui

An post are returning my package to Japan; again - Mod <SNIP> them! Their concern for the CO2 climate emergency stupidly declared by th Irish goverrnment - is touching.

I'm not sure Buyee are much better. I tried informing them of what they needed to do and even gave them a link to the Japan post page that informs of Electronic Advance Data (EAD), and they replied:

"As for your concern, please kindly understand that we have applied for EAD for all packages. We do not use handwritten labels."

I am not sure they are grasping what EAD means, it's not about whether the label is hand-written or machine generated.

dxhound2005

They might be thinking of the policy in America, which is the automatic return of any parcels with handwritten customs declarations. Separately I read that the US Post Office uses surface mail to return all foreign parcels rejected by Customs, or which cannot be delivered for any other reason.

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2020/pb22537/html/updt_003.htm

innuendo141

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963344#Comment_117963344

This is what they are referring to with their "electronic" code required. They are basically covering themselves, so if it can't be read electronically it's going back.

Imagine that this is how a national postal service can operate in 2021. It seems like they have done nothing to address any issues since all of this started kicking off. They are just doubling down with the lies and misleading Twitter responses, which is actually horrible to keep reading. They are responding to people on Twitter giving them hope that their issues will be sorted, when they know full well their package has most likely already been sent back. No idea what it will take at this stage for anything to be addressed.

It would nearly make more sense for An Post to send their online shopping flier to every household OUTSIDE of the EU so that the rest of the planet knows how to send a DVD to Ireland.

rf4c

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961165#Comment_117961165

Hi and thanks for a very useful post. It's increasing our store of knowledge in this maze!

I don't know the extent of your knowledge/skill level, but if you know, I wonder if you could extend this post a little further.

I now get that EAD is a red line requirement for importing something.

My particular problem, which I'm sure is shared by many here, is that I regularly purchase from small sole trader or UK only market sellers who need to

be coached through this. I've found that mostly they are eager to learn. The whole CN22/CN23 is still an issue in which n Post seem to disagree with the rest of the world, but the big one for me is the EAD.

I'm wondering if you have any suggestion as to how I tell the seller to generate an EAD.

Do they go to a particular website?

Do they email it to Irish Customs and if so to whom?

Royal Mail seem to do a reasonable job, but this bit is still a bit vague and what if the seller uses someone other than Royal Mail?

Sorry if I'm overdoing it, but you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable people here!

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963580#Comment_117963580

for a small business the App might suffice. https://www.upu.int/en/Postal-Solutions/Technical-Solutions/Products/EAD-mobile-app

deezell

"Haven't seen it posted here and after 36 pages I'm amazed someone hasn't pointed it out but what is happening is that their barcode/taric scanners have a new system which is not reading the package information correctly"

I've speculated from early on here that this was what was happening, and I've suggested that such misread packets are being automatically gated on the conveyer belt straight to the return skip. There's no human picking it up and manually scanning it to ensure it wasn't just misread. Furthermore, the €3.50 fee only gets you the auto scan and auto demand for VAT, they've removed the human element entirely, no packet to your post office, no little note in your post advising you to collect there and pay the charge. Looks like an Post decided to combine the new customs/data/Vat regime with a discontinuation of a traditional method of collecting the charges. The first was mandated by the EU, but the second was their own uck fup.

Thargor

Has anyone had their issue sorted on Twitter or is it all just a waste of time?

My documents get resorted every 2 days, lots of people posting the same screenshot now but I notice this issue seems to get ignored whereas others will be engaged with and asked for a DM:

https://www.anpost.com/Post-Parcels/Track/History?item=RN802132730GB

rf4c

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963613#Comment_117963613

Thanks so much, this is a good start! All the best!

fritzelly

Being talked about now in the Dail

rf4c

Love their lightning fast reactions!

I've had so many mails ignored by Eamon Ryan.

Just to give him a mention, I've counted and my second highest is Joe Duffy.

He claims to be a champion of the people and sorts out things for them. Maybe if you bought stale bread from the local shop or got a cold pizza,

but he's way to windy to attract the attention of the powers. I've opened my ears to his programmes lately and it's all fake.

He only deals with "safe subjects", where he can't be challenged. Basically a cowardly bait and switch just to get ratings!

Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964091#Comment_117964091

Can't see anything yet, like a post ir article, link it here if anyone does

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964170#Comment_117964170

Assume it will show up here some time today - Topical issue 1

dxhound2005

Paschal Donohoe answered a question in the Dáil on Sept 29. The Oct 01 business is not on the Kildarestreet site yet.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2021-09-29a.91&s=customs+charges#g93.r

Alternatively, where sufficient information to complete the customs declaration in not available, the postal operator or courier business may choose to return the goods to the sender. It is a matter for the relevant postal operator or courier business to determine, based on its business model, how to deal with instances where they do not have the data needed to complete the necessary customs declaration.

fritzelly

I forgot the link in the previous post

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/dail-eireann-live/

Dynomutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963344#Comment_117963344

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920241#Comment_117920241

This was confirmed by a poster who claims to be an An Post employee and they included a photo of a “return to sender” sticker sheet.

The fact that people like Joe Duffy and “Consumer Champion” Conor Pope constantly ignore the story show how useless they really are, unless covering an on-trend soft subject.

PhilHill69

Taric Codes- I Use the official Europa Database for mine- 10 digits.

These are submitted electronically, as well as the paper sticker with same info stuck on the parcel using the Royal Mail Click and Drop business app.

Ireland have some restricted codes, such as items made out of certain materials.....but none of the products I ship fall into any of these categories.

In endless phone calls to the Royal Mail business team they also cannot identify what exactly An Post are requiring, they tell me my CN22, and electronic customs data were correct. They were extremely understanding when I told them that I am now using Fedex and DPD to ship my international parcels to Ireland.

On one of my many rants on twitter.....I asked when An post responded to me in a human way whether there was some breakdown in communication....and I meant electronically in how their system is reading the electronic data. The customer service rep said no, but I am not convinced.

I have kept a spreadsheet of the items I sent to Ireland in the month of August. I can see approx 40% returned.

Many parcels I send always contain the same products. eg a lot of people buy baby hats. . I always use the same taric code for these....submitted in the same way, both electronically and also on the paper CN22. So why should some customers have theirs delivered, without issue albeit after an unreasonable amount of time, but many of the same parcels identical in contents and data have returned with An Post stickers saying insufficient electronic data etc.

I am still none the wiser what exactly An Post are requiring. Neither does the Royal Mail I gather from my conversations with their business team. So God knows how you could try to "educate" your Chinese / Japanese / Australian / American etc shippers what exactly they need to do to get the package through An Post.

Great to see informative posts on here about taric codes etc....but I don't see how this will help, as it is just a lottery whether it will get their or returned to sender when dealing with An Post.

rf4c

Regarding the Dail questions,

Isn't it telling that the Finance Minister, and not Eamon Ryan the Minister actually responsible could not respond.

Perhaps he nodded off again or wasn't even there!

Flaccus

My Parcel which disappeared off the tracker after it's 16th Sort, is now back. On Sort 17 and counting. No answer on email, twitter or the phones, other then customs have it and nothing can be done till they release it or return it to sender.

CollyFlower

Who pays the postage when items get returned, is it AnPost? If so the cost could be a lot more than just delivering the items to the owner.

cnocbui

Not an faeces, clearly.

deezell

This is what Paschal O'Donohue said;

"in Ireland, the information required to complete the declaration is generally supplied by the exporting party although the importer (the recipient in Ireland) may also provide information to the postal operator or courier business that is needed to complete the declaration."

As if. An Post explicitly say they will not edit customs data, and as for asking the recipient! I haven't read a case of a frustrated recipient being able to supply correct taric, values etc. Let alone being asked by AnPost.

An Post are not analysing why a packet attracts a return sticker. Computer says no, it gets returned. They have no record if its their fault.

If only a human would sample the packets selected for return, and analyse the steps that caused it, then contact us as Paschal Donohoe thinks is happening. If I hadn't been able to get more information from DHL and my supplier, my only correspondence from AnPost was a series of tracking messages fininishing in one that stated my "post had been delivered". I actually believed that one, and assumed my supplier was wrong when he said DHL had been told the packet was being returned. When nothing appeared in my post box. I knew it was a scam, to give the appearance that AnPost were doing their job. The poor agent who's ear I eventually bent could only say 'it's delivered, but to the return address' . That makes it OK then, contract fulfilled by an Post. Wasters.

Seems to me It’s just not worth shopping online with small retailers anymore. I’m going to send an email to the EU competition DG as this whole mess seems to just funnel trade in for Amazon and a very small number of big online retailers with special arrangements.