Unauthorised Development Question

rn

Fair enough. But OP can declare it as his home for car insurance, regardless of planning. It's a legit address as far as car insurance is concerned. Lots and lots of people declare home as X but are ordinary resident somewhere else during the week.

Home insurance, however, would be a problem for a new build. Just in regards home insurance, I believe it brings a certain amount of public liability insurance. Without it means you've no cover should you have someone do something stupid. There's another thread on boards about someone who had a visitor who had an accident with a bbq and now wants to sue for damages. Look, granted it's another remote possibility of happening but yet again you playing with fire with no planning secured for your development.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675412#Comment_117675412

You really can't declare either way for car insurance. Their questions are fairly carefully phrased, something like 'where is the car normally kept at night'? If you put down your mammy's house where you visit once a month in response, you'll find it difficult to claim when your car is robbed from your Dublin house.

John_Rambo

I can't believe people do this. An amazing mix of balls of steel and pure self interest with a little bit of the finger to everyone else in the country that does it properly.

And by the way, millions of people work hard all their lives and expect kids at some stage of their lives. I don't know if this will end well for you but I reckon you'll be in the house for a couple of decades even if it's detected by the cc tomorrow. I guess if you're very wealthy the money is a pinch of salt and the risk is worth it. Maybe monster penalties will be introduced if super rich people start flouting planning permissions and just walk away.

rn

The penalties are established. It's just the system is slow. Eventually OP or OP estate will have to seek PP for the house. The ultimate outcome of that process is granted or denied. If denied, eventually OP or OP estate could have to knock the house at his expense. Failing that the council could put a charge on the site and go in and knock it at their expense.

First it has to be brought to attention of council, which OP is gambling won't happen deliberately.

Calhoun

I wonder if revenue will cop on to it and let it be known, i know our public sectors aren't usually connected in that way but big risk i would see is that if you aint paying property tax.

Op would also want to be on their best behavior all it takes is one disgruntled person and council knows about it.

Ubbquittious

Well feck it I hope the OP gets away with it and fair play to having a gamble. I'd welcome a large scale movement of non-compliance with the draconian planning laws the government introduced since '08 with the sole purpose of pushing up the price of housing in order to help out privately owned banks

The government have really screwed us all insisting we all pay 20+ years wages for a simple roof over our heads and then all these anti-rural housing policies and insisting we put in massively expensive heating systems.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676502#Comment_117676502

I think you'll find that it was the greedy developers and investors that have been responsible for the increased house prices.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676521#Comment_117676521

That is true too. All part of a concerted effort to bring the prices back up after the crash

user05238

Housing both rural and urban in this country is shocking expensive even in very low-end areas, thanks to the developers and investors. I understand why planning laws are required, but they aren't set up right, they're definitely needed but just need to be reformed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676485#Comment_117676485

I doubt it, construction costs are part of my company's industry and we went about this very very carefully. Yes, I dodge the tax where I can, but I don't skirt Corporation tax or even VAT, mainly just income tax, which is stupidly high to the point where I cannot stomach to pay it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675412#Comment_117675412

My main problem was somebody with the ability to do so, running the plate on my jeep and it displaying the address of the new house.

Home insurance is a problem but I think the main issue would be something like an electrical fire or burst pipe (god forbid), but there isn't anything I can do about that and nothing I can do more to prevent those issues so there's no point in worrying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117674051#Comment_117674051

Yes, I believe it does ask for location overnight but I haven't checked it. Could be an issue but could also not be an issue. Same insurance company found out my brother had a different engine in an E36 after an accident but covered it regardless. (Although, they covered the liability, not his car)

My partner's car is a private car she has put her parent's address on. Might look into putting both addresses to the new house, but we aren't living there yet, we're still finishing it up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673792#Comment_117673792

Seems to be the opposite of what somebody else said earlier on this thread, where they had maps that they overlay layers on, which seems like a good system in theory but likely only have that in Dublin Cork etc not out here. Dealing with Wicklow Co Co here, not exactly the most funded I'd imagine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673252#Comment_117673252

It's about having the address on anything that the County or whoever would be able to check. Looking at it now, might just move it over once we move in fully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676502#Comment_117676502

Thanks mate! Without trying to sound like a d*ck, the house cost in total was less than 3 years saving, still a lot of money but it wouldn't leave me on the street if I had to leave it. I don't know if a large-scale movement would either loosen or tighten things but I'd certainly be backing it. Seeing the EU case stalled makes me feel as though the government would sooner put a stop to rural development although before dropping local needs requirements. Counties that don't require it have the most beautiful home you'd ever see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117674066#Comment_117674066

Haven't moved in yet and I don't plan on having many people up, just close friends and immediate family. I'm (sort of) young enough to the point where telling people I live with parents still isn't out of the blue.

Thanks to everybody on here for your help, definitely makes me feel a little bit better about my gamble if you would call that. My solicitor was against the idea of it and he explained about enforcement orders etc but I wanted to get some community feedback on it. Sure f*ck it, even if I'm made apply for retention, I'd say I have a good chance of it.

rn

To give you a "good" news story OP. There's a house up the road from mine that's up about 8 years, no PP. Owner occupier is very happy,in the house about 6 years, no bother from roscommon coco so far. It was the occupier granny house and her brothers completely renovated, modernised and built a large extension onto the house... All DIY in the family. The house sits together with a more modern bungalow that's the new "granny", mother & father of the no PP cottage. They're both on same site/garden.

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676751#Comment_117676751

Seems like most county councils don't actually care and won't care until it becomes a serious issue, but isolated cases in the countryside don't seem to bother them. Although the "mansion" in Meath to be knocked does seem like the Meath co co saw the size of the house and figured they were going to make an example out of them. The people who built that really went over the top though, huge house with a massive sunroom and a 3 story garage, balcony to the front, and massive grand gates, it was only ever going to end badly. Feel as though they'd have gotten retention if they built something a bit more reasonable. To be fair, this country does have an issue with big ugly McMansions all lined up next to each other.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676502#Comment_117676502

Yeah, you would like to see people building whatever and wherever they like? Until your neighbour decided to build a massive block of apartments overlooking your house.

I lived in a country with no planning laws, no one wants that, trust me!

TheChizler

This thread makes me feel like a chump getting planning for my little ground floor extension, why would you bother.

listermint

It's grand sure the OP is leaving his family and kids to sort out the mess when he passes. Including all costs involved in restoring the land back to what it was.

It's all kind of genius really if you don't like your family.

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676903#Comment_117676903

Because it's certain that a) I'll still have this when I pass, b) It'd be passed onto them, isn't it?

By then it'll probably either have planning permission or it'll be just a concrete foundation in a field. I believe that the unauthorized development only needs to be rectified for a sale, not an inheritance anyway. Wouldn't it just be them inheriting my land but it happens to have a structure on it? Different from other countries, here there's no ownership of a structure separate from the land under it (I am 95% sure but not certain).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676882#Comment_117676882

You're definitely right, we need planning laws, but they need to be reformed. Building a block of apartments looking over somebody's house is quite extreme, wouldn't you think? Personally, if I was living in a nice home with all the planning in order and somebody wanted to build something next to me without planning, provided it blended in nicely with the landscape, wasn't stupid looking, and didn't obstruct anything, I wouldn't have an issue at all. Well, that's the approach my neighbors took and how any rational person should look at things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676885#Comment_117676885

Well, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble but it's the right thing to do so you should be able to find comfort in that :)

Once you allow people to build without planning, that's exactly what happens. Extremes.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058200518/unauthorised-development-question

“I didn't want to risk a refused planning application so the dwelling has been constructed without planning permission.”

It’s alright, your special, you can do what you want.

 

Had this kind of thing lately where I live. Neighbour built extension without planning permission, outside the property boundary, changing the appearance of a neighbouring estate in the process. The attitude of it!

Esel

Wicklow County Council ordering drones now.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058200518/unauthorised-development-question

if this is indeed legit, i really hope you get caught as this is the sort of bullshit attitude that we dont need in this county. yes, alot of the planning regulations are hard to deal with, but we have an over abundance of poorly-designed, once off isolated rural houses and just going ahead without permission when you were sure that you wouldnt have permission granted is ridiculous. 'I was going to build regardless of planning permission' - how unbelievably entitled of you. if everyone did that then we'd all be (even more) screwed.

RE: car insurance, you said it was a commercial vehicle registered to the company address - you shouldnt be using it as a family vehicle so

also, this '7 year rule' does not really exist as most people think it does (and i have many arguments with clients over this), it basically means the council cant issue legal proceedings against you and in most cases cant require the works to be taken down. however in your situation this may still not apply

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676502#Comment_117676502

you have very little understanding of how planning actually works

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677733#Comment_117677733

Building outside of a boundary in an estate is quite different from a well-integrated house in a very rural area, I would imagine.

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677842#Comment_117677842

I'm not disagreeing, it is an entitled attitude to think your above build regs, but at the same time, it's about as well-integrated of a home into a landscape as you're really going to get. I'm aware that it remains an unauthorized development forever unless retention is granted, and then it's statute barred from enforcement, but that is of little concern, I'm happy as long as it isn't knocked.

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677737#Comment_117677737

😂 Honestly

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678012#Comment_117678012

i really hope you complied with building regs at least, i was talking about planning regulations and that process. if it is as well-integrated as you say then the chances are it would have been granted permission if you had made your case. i would also think that without any permission/retention your building will always be in danger of having an enforcement against it. the 7 year timeline has limitations (contravening planning conditions for example) and a flagrant disregard for the planning process may fall under an exception, especially when many councils are becoming harsher on any developments without planning (contributions for retention for example have increased/become much more common recently)

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678062#Comment_117678062

Yes, fully in with building regulations. It isn't a huge ugly box on top of a hill or something stupid, it's a well-thought-out traditional home that sits in a neat corner of a large enough site, garage appropriately sized (within allowable size for domestic use), and isn't an eyesore or anything of the sort.

My concern with the planning was not of the design, it was of the Local Needs. I qualify for Local Need but there were no sites available within the required distance from my family home, and there were no homes available for sale. It's not like there were some bungalows etc and I thought I was "above" a house like that - there were no houses for sale period.

As far as the "7-year rule" is concerned, the development isn't in breach of any conditions on other grants e.g. land sterilization. There haven't been any nearby planning applications in the last 10 years as it's quite a rural area, but there was a rejected application for a dormer house on this exact site in 2002, rejected due to lack of local need but no other reasons for the refusal (I believe).

If I am required to apply for retention, it technically is outside of the 4km distance from the family home so I may go to the Carlow County Council for retention. Their policy is they can review applications for sites within 3km of the county border (which it is) and then can do 8km from the family home, then only 800m out of bounds, as opposed to 4.8km. I certainly agree with proper planning to restrict development and I wouldn't have the cheek to straight-up build a house completely in violation of the rules (you can argue that breaking the rules is the same regardless I suppose) but a 4km from the family home rule is too much in my opinion. Went to every farmer and landowner around my parent's house, none were willing to sell even after offering eye-wateringly high amounts.

paddysdream

Seen this happen near me a few years ago.House built in the mid 1990's without any planning whatsoever .This was roadside on their own land .Very noticable as its a large 2 storey dwelling .

Had to apply for retention about 10 years ago .Got it in 2 months along with permission for extension .Just after looking at the decision on the council website and fairly straightforward .Actually a lot less conditions than any new houses in the area .Council planning fees were small enough .

Not too sure why they applied for retention but must ask them sometime .Do know they had a mortgage at one stage so perhaps needed planning when it finished up or maybe needed planning cert to borrow for extension .

Don't think ESB ,phone line ,broadband etc was ever an issue .Own well and septic tank so no public connection.

As regards insurance ,well not one farm building here was ever put in for planning. Has never been an issue with storm claim etc. Bit of a red herring .As for the motor insurance part think people are clutching at straws with this .

Councils are hard set to do much around here so the idea of them paying for drones is like the stories of helicopters being hired by councils to fly about looking for backyard burning .

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676668#Comment_117676668

You've a 300 grand directors loan in the form of your house. If I was a betting woman I would say that you will get caught by Revenue but not by the council and also as long as your septic tank never has a problem you will be grand to keep the house.

I think you were mad not to apply for planning permission; because you would have certainly got it.

user05238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678143#Comment_117678143

Fair play to them. Going ahead without permission is a very tough pill to swallow, as your seeing your home being built you imagine it being knocked in a few years.

I don't have a phone line and I know for a fact the broadband and Sky won't bat an eye, but I'm genuinely surprised ESB didn't ask for planning permission. In the case of them refusing to install it to the house, I was going to get them to install a farm supply to the back of the property and then run a cable from that to the fuse box inside, for a 100amp supply, the same if you were putting in a 2nd fuse box in a garage or shed.

I think I'll wait the 7 years so they can't issue any enforcement orders and then apply for retention. Hopefully, the EU case will have gotten rid of the distance requirements by then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678207#Comment_117678207

Less than that amount, but never the less I'll be making it right soon.

user05238

Does anybody on here know if councils can just bend the requirements a bit?

E.g. Must be 8km or less from the family home rule but the house is 8.8km away.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678139#Comment_117678139

my siblings and i couldnt build anywhere near our family home, so we sucked it up and moved elsewhere

if there were a genuine need for you to remain in the area then you could have made your case and most councils will allow be some be lenient in terms of distances. otherwise you are no different to everyone else and to continue and build a house just because you have the financial means (which seems suspect at best and also looks likely to cause trouble) screams sheer and utter ignorance.

and as i previously said, your house will mostly likely always be liable for enforcement, the 7 year statue would most likely not cover such a development and if such flagrant disregard to the process was brought to council's attention i imagine they would be doing their utmost to bring about such an enforcement.