Mayo GAA Discussion

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919019#Comment_121919019

Good early scoring by Mayo and good comeback from Roscommon by all accounts.

One thing from the game that frustrates me is hearing that the Roscommon midfield overpowered us again. How is it that with our population twice the size of the Roscommon that we are failing to produce big athletic ball-winning midfielders. Seems to be an issue all the way down from senior.

Is it a result of underage coaches focusing on smaller ball players?

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922363#Comment_121922363

Certainly an area we've commonly been short on size for a number of years, at nearly all grades. Notable that neither of the two starting in the middle yesterday (both fantastic players) are what you'd consider natural midfielders playing most of their football there either.

Injuries had a fair impact there yesterday, looking ahead for this specific panel with a little more hope. Jack Melvin (midfield) and Sean Morahan (from 2 to 7) (both part of the UL side that won the Fresher's A) would have made a difference for options & physicality in that middle third if they'd been fit to start. Others there in the panel like Mulroy or Armstrong that can offer a bit more size too so it'll be interesting to see how they set up for Galway next week, a side with plenty of powerful runners around the middle.

(And in the more long term view getting lads like Feeney, Clarke, D Hurley, Corless or Maheady back available would make a significant difference where you'd expect a minimum 3 or 4 of those to be starting)

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922743#Comment_121922743

Perhaps some of those players will add some physicality as you say.

Apart from the Clifford phase of minor all-irelands Kerry usually focus on developing players for senior rather than winning underage titles. I don't think we are as commited to that priority somehow.

It's been noticeable that for some time we have been playing midfield-type half forwards to compensate for limitations at 8 and 9. That works up to a point but against the top teams forwards priority should be on getting breaks, setting up attacks and scoring, not primary possession. The big teams have midfielders that dont require as much assistance and their forwards benefit as a result.

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922923#Comment_121922923

A lot to be said for focusing on the long term development rather than the short term games/gains alright... but once a ball throws in I tend to forget it completely (I'd try and justify it with saying it's good psychology to be in the habit of winning and know the lads can beat the Tyrones/Derrys/Dublins/Kerrys/etc but always just that competitive streak I'm sure). With that in mind was great to see the young lads like Darragh Beirne, Yousif Coghill and Eoin McGreal making a solid showing already just out of minor.

We've not done too badly ourselves in terms of developing lads for senior. Despite the lack of even Connacht successes at 20s we've had a conveyor belt of talent coming through from underage, with 14 of the current panel 24 or younger (and missing Oisín who'd be the pick of the bunch & Diarmuid Duffy who already went back to the 20s), the average age of the panel used so far this year down well below 26 & it likely to get lower as more of these 20s break through.

Some notable successes for local young basketball and rugby sides this year too, so fingers crossed (entirely selfishly) some footballing talent among the bigger of those. If not we've still young lads in Jack, Bob, Donnacha and Conor that seem to be moving in the right directions and could still gain that bit more physicality we'd hope for.

MacDanger

Bit of a balls up in the ladies this weekend - last round of matches but Galway v Waterford has yet to be played from the previous round. You'd think they could have found an alternative venue for it last weekend, esp with it being a BH

Edit: I see the final round of games aren't even all being played at the same time, that's pretty strange

Always_Running

Sad news on Ger Brady, only 44. Horrible Disease is Motor Neurone. RIP

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922363#Comment_121922363

Ah Ref spoke about this on this week's podcast. The vast majority of our team is u19, iirc, the Rossies had 10 or so in their final year. A year being a long time in terms of S&C at that age.

Our focus on this u19 group / forgetting about the guys a year ahead of them was the discussion. We have a u19 development squad but for this year anyway, our u19s are basically the u20 team.

blowitupref

Wouldn't agree with that point. Mayo's minors in 2022/23 was clearly better than 2021 group and only natural the U20 panel was selected in that way. At U20 level you are picking from three U17 groups and you pick the best 30 plus from the 90 to 100 players. Sligo last year the majority of their U20 team was 18,19 year olds starting they reached the All Ireland final beating Roscommon,Mayo,Galway and Kerry on route.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927734#Comment_121927734

Very sad. RIP Ger

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928014#Comment_121928014

The conversation was mostly Enda wondering why they were having (was mostly him just thinking out load, so I'd imagine a better framing would be "if it's the best possible use of resources") an u19 development team with some top coaching staff (Boyler manager, I think Mickey Conroy in there, they mentioned a few of the coaches too but I'm blanking on them now) when so many of the top u19 talent is already involved in the 20s squad (think it's 12 of the '22 panel & 2 more eligible for that one involved, though one of those is Rio from '23 too).

He was suggesting it might have been more constructive to pick up some of the u20 lads unfortunate not to make the 20s cut this year due to the explosion of that younger talent (e.g. Adam Beirne, Darragh's older brother, or Jack O'Reilly exceptional u20 talents with potential to make big progress in the future despite not being involved in this panel), combine it with the better of the 19s not involved with the 20s and use that as a development squad where lots of lads aren't falling through the cracks due to a specific DOB (can't remember the exact wording... he might have extended it out to some of last years 20s too, but I'd imagine you're getting the gist of it).

Hard to fault the basic idea, moves the coaching time to the upper picks from 2 different age groups rather than going deeper on a single group... but pros and cons either way (that's assuming there's another seperate u18 development squad for all but the 5 that made the 20s. Not entirely sure if that's the case).

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928870#Comment_121928870

Yeah, it wasn't a bad point but I think he missed the fact that those U20s are the lads who would have been in that U19 training group last year so they've already had a decent amount of training. Maybe a few from both groups would have been an option

flasher0030

Can't see match on TV. Any other options? (Other than heading to Monaghan 😁).

km79

Madwest

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933941#Comment_121933941

Cheers. Living in Dublin though. So can't get it here (I think).

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933950#Comment_121933950

Online

km79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933950#Comment_121933950

Download Tune in Radio free app

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933963#Comment_121933963

Brill. Got it on the phone apps.

km79

Could be a costly day injury wise

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934094#Comment_121934094

What happened?

km79

Callinan went off with knee injury

Mcbrien subbed at HT (not sure if injury related)

Rod picked up an injury at very end of game. No idea why he was still out there . Might be minor

Panrich

Callinan and McBrien both subbed off with injuries. I wonder was McStay on the beer last night. Changes made pre-match meant we started with 9 defenders. You'd hardly be happy if you were a fringe forward to not get a chance today and see a half back taking your place.

PressRun

Team selection was bizarre and we struggled even with the extra man. Once again, huge problems with the mass defence. Really hard to know where we're going tbh - no evidence of any sort of game plan emerging at all, which is worrying given championship is around the corner.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934180#Comment_121934180

The whole league has been a bit meh.

Granted the defense is working well and up to the Derry game they were very tight.

But then again Derry are the type of team you want to be stopping at the business end of the championship.

Overall I can't see this iteration of the team being any different than last near.

There is nothing new there.

For one reason or another I watched the last 10 minutes of the 2015 SF v Dublin on YouTube, the one where Mayo came from 7 down.

The running, the energy, the urgency, fair enough it was mainly coming from the half backs but that was what the 2910s and Mayo were all about.

We seem a million miles away from it now, and not in a good way.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934570#Comment_121934570

Didn't see the game today and agree that overall the league was average.

However, there have been loads of 10 minute spells in the last few years where we did similar to that semi final (which we followed up with a comprehensive defeat a week later btw). Kerry and Galway in championship last year, Dublin in 2021, even Derry last week.

Dunno how the championship will go, but we seem to have a reasonably fit and healthy squad so wouldn't rule out a long run. Not that many teams better than us.

Be-Jaysus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934726#Comment_121934726

Mayo are barely a Top 6 side in Ireland now, with Derry taking our mantel as the Main challenger to the status Quo of Dublin & Kerry for the foreseeable future.

Its now a dogfight for the lower tier consisting of Mayo, Tyrone ,Galway, Donegal, Armagh for that 4th semi final slot.(making up the numbers slot)

Higgins5473

That is such heartbreaking news about Ger Brady. Condolences to all and RIP.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121935743#Comment_121935743

Thankfully games aren't decided based on what imaginary tier teams are in.

This time last year Kerry and Galway were top 3 in the betting for Sam yet we beat both in championship.

naughto

The rossies/galway had a very poor league is there anything for us to to worried about when we meet both in the championship?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936265#Comment_121936265

Not unless Galway get their big guns back from injury and up to speed. They are running out of time though.

The Rossies will have to be respected but don't appear to be a big threat. Seem to have gone back a bit since last year.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936312#Comment_121936312

Galway have 6 weeks until the Connacht final so loads of time for injuries to clear up.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936201#Comment_121936201

This time last year Kerry and Galway were top 3 in the betting for Sam yet we beat both in championship.

Fat lot of good it did Mayo when they couldn't beat Cork, top their group and avoid another a group winner in the Quarter finals.

The reality is they are no longer competitive against the real top contenders and are susceptible to losing to perceived lesser teams (see Roscommon and Cork 2023).

That's something that was not the case in the 2010s.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936583#Comment_121936583

It's not that simple. Yeah time for injuries to clear and for lads to get back playing but Comer, McDaid and Kelly have missed most of the league and the heavy training. Walsh has also missed the second half of the league.

It's almost impossible to recover all that stamina training once championship begins.

MacDanger

Whoever wins Connacht has a pretty decent chance of topping their group, being in an easier QF and potentially making a SF. That's as good as it's getting for any of us based on what we've seen so far.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936732#Comment_121936732

I think some people have rose tinted glasses looking back at the 2010s.

We lost to Galway 3 years in a row. There were also numerous lucky escapes - Roscommon 2014, Fermanagh 2016, Derry, Cork and Roscommon 2017.

Unlike last year, in 2016 and 17 we got lucky to avoid Dublin in the quarter final and semi final draws so went on a long championship run.

Personally I think we're in a similar position now to the last 12 years. Clearly not the best team around but capable of beating anyone on our day.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936877#Comment_121936877

Nothing rose-tinted about it. We are barely at the level of 'beating anyone on our day' now, certainly not a fresh and hungry Dublin team at late championship stage anyway.

The team of the 2010s was clearly much better than this. One of the most consistent Mayo teams ever. 5 connacht titles in a row and 5 AI final appearances, 4 semi final appearances. Also a number of our players were in the top 10 in Ireland. Hard to make an argument that we have any now apart maybe from an injury free Paddy Durcan.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936877#Comment_121936877

But they could go toe to toe with Dublin and Kerry back then.

In the last two seasons they have been blown out by both.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936941#Comment_121936941

Well we didn't beat Dublin at all between 2012 and 2021 so that's nothing new.

No denying we had some good years during that period but also had multiple defeats to Galway, lost to Roscommon and got knocked out of the championship by Kildare one year.

In the last 3.5 years we've won two Connacht titles, contested two All Ireland finals, beaten Dublin and Kerry in championship so our form hasn't just fallen off a cliff.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936958#Comment_121936958

Would we have gone toe to toe with Dublin back then if we'd to play them with a week's notice? The replay in 2015 would suggest not.

Also, we beat Kerry last year.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937022#Comment_121937022

When Rochford took over the emphasis changed to peaking for the AI series so the connacht championship wasn't taken as serious. Whereas any time we met Galway or Roscommon at knock-out stage when it really matter we went on to beat them. If the connacht championship was do or die we would almost certainly have won those games. The 2010s was our most consistent phase for winning big games in Croke Park.

I also forgot to mention that we had what was probably the best Mayo player of the last 60 years on the team which we don't have now. You could go through the teams line by line and the 2010s was clearly superior to now. Diarmuid, Aidan and Cillian were in their prime then but are not the players they were. They haven't been replaced by players of the same calibre.

spakman

Westernview, Diarmuid is only 29. He's injured at the moment, but it's a bit soon to be saying he's not the player he once was!

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937262#Comment_121937262

I agree he is still young but like Paddy D and Cillian (who is still only 31) he is probably now suffering from recurring old injuries. In his case I'm basing it on availability. If injuries are limiting his game time or ability to get to full championship fitness then he won't be as effective as he once was. Apart from lasting just a few minutes against Tyrone Diarmuid has only featured in one league game (against Kerry in Tralee.)

muddle84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936877#Comment_121936877

I think it was summed up really well on the Ah Ref Podcast there a few weeks back when comparing back to where we were then and where we are now.

There was a top 20 player list they were referring to, does anyone remember what list it was? We only had one in the list. I can't remember was it Ryan or Paddy. Where as in the 2010's we would have had 5 - 7 players on that list.

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938201#Comment_121938201

They were chatting in relation to the original list, Paddy was our highest in that one and Ryan surprisingly low. He'd shot up a lot for this update. (StatsAndSolos put's out some fantastic stuff on odds/game modelling for odds. Well worth a follow for anyone on Twitter)

https://twitter.com/StatsAndSolos/status/1765840201392291848

km79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936860#Comment_121936860

Spot on imo

Barlett

I think a Semi-Final appearance plus a competitive showing in that semi final would represent a job well done for Mayo this year

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944847#Comment_121944847

I'd agree

flasher0030

I was optimistic at the beginning of the league. But getting a little more pessimistic as the weeks are moving along.

For Mayo to get to a semi-final, I think it will take a lot of fortune along the way - decent draws in the group stages, minimal injuries, decisions to go our way. etc.

If Ryan O'Donoghue gets injured, I think our goose is cooked. Too many teams have better players than us - Dublin, Kerry, Derry, it is arguable that Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Galway may be slightly better (but that is debatable and can depend on the circumstances on any given day). And the likes of Louth, Roscommon, Cork, Down, Westmeath could give Mayo a close game.

MacDanger

0-16 to 2-6 win for the U20s against Galway. Looking good for at least a SF spot at this stage

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947987#Comment_121947987

Great game. Mesmerising number of turnovers by both sides, but made for an absolute joy to watch.

Massive performances from 2 of the younger u18 lads. Eoin McGreal an absolute rock at the back and Darragh Beirne's cultured left boot & feverish tackling for turnovers a constant threat up front. Both with astonishing performances, especially for their age. John MacMonagle another that locked the door on the Galway attack in the second half holding them to just the 2 early points in the half.

11 different scorers from play, all 6 starting forwards getting a score, a nice impact from the lads off the bench (Cronin again making a big impression with an absolute peach of a point with the outside of his right boot), looked athletically able to run down the opponents (massive spike in Galway turnovers as the legs started to go the later the game went) and looked absolutely buzzing with intensity & controlled agression for turnovers from 2 to 15 all big positives to look to.

In reality, we were still pretty wasteful up front, kicked a lot less than we created (and a lot less than we should have given the positions) and still yet to see that forward unit really click near where we know they can... which is a fantastic complaint to have while sitting in a relatively commanding position in the group after tonights results.

A million different things that still need to be improved or fixed for now, yet all sorts of massive positives to take and be super content with.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944849#Comment_121944849

shoot for the stars. Thats what really separates mayo from Kerry. a loser defeatist attitude. As paidi said Kerry people a ducking animals.