Mayo GAA Discussion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256067#Comment_119256067

Nail on head. And it starts young. Clubs think the best option is having the early developer dominating all round at U14 by pulling him out the field even though his natural position may be inside. They then get to 18/19 and they are no longer physically as far ahead but no longer have then instincts for the forwards. This is the way in mayo as long as I remember.

We then get the situation where we try to convert the likes of Jack Carney into a FF when all his football to date has been out the field. Madness

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256098#Comment_119256098

Conroy and RO'D would have started yesterday if fit (conspiracy theories aside) and that would have given us much more balance.

We could always do with more scoring forwards and our (hard running) style doesn't lend itself to bringing them through sometimes imo.

But that style has gotten us a fair amount of success in the past decade, the main prize aside obviously.

As people have said, it's probably best to let the dust settle before having these debates but we would have had a fairly balanced team with those two in it, and Cillian (who doesn't seem right) wouldn't have been so isolated.

When we've had these strong "runners" we've had for the past decade(s), it was fairly logical to use them / play that style imo.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256297#Comment_119256297

100% agree. We want this to improve and that to improve and everyone else to improve. But the first place to start is ourselves in consistantly listening to all this garbage. All this toxic nonsense bourne out of club rivalries and/or a soured twitter merchant. If reflects poorly on us that that stuff gets traction and we should really be more measured on it. For example, horan is looking after his clubman apparantly, by giving the top scoring forward of all time some responsibility in the team and not looking to sub him off yesterday. Yet 5 posts later horan is getting abuse for only having one 'natural forward'- the same player again - in his team because the rest play in midfield for their clubs! Which is it?

People just need to park their anger and approach the thing with objectivity. Keith higgins played in ff for his club, so did Vaughan, does that mean they can only play that position? We wanted horan out before, we were crying out for his return afterwards. Do we really want to open up the floor to the cb to do their worst on that front? The frank way i look at it is, there is no better option currently. If there was im happy for that to be explored, but we have to recognise that change for change sake is not positive.

Coillte_Bhoy

Re the posts about into developing good inside forwards etc, piece in yesterday's Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mayo-must-alter-a-losing-formula-the-absence-of-guile-to-turn-possession-into-scores-has-been-a-constant-grievance-41790030.html?fbclid=IwAR0Il64FlcAMPtj2LNsBlITywvfFQnC-6LZiRb8eMhEx9MHdvR0EsCfmgt8

Vish81

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255876#Comment_119255876

so which is it, was he objectively good, or was he off colour? you mention not using past performances - yet you then say they were off colour - i ask, off colour compared to what? past performances perhaps?

i say he had a poor performance. interpret it any way you like, but the typical player yesterday did not get black carded. His influence on the game was not missed, given that we clawed back a 2 point deficit and went in level while AOS was off.

Green&Red

Disappointing yesterday, the chances were there to win that. Too many players didn't perform and thats been the story of the season.

Some thoughts on yesterday/the year

• Cillian has been carrying an injury all year, not sure if its the same Achilles he got in Clare last year but he definitely wasn't the same player we had in 2019 but I wouldn't be writing him off
• Diarmuid, Ruane and Paddy Durcan all have had a terrible year, hard to do well when three of your top players are all off the pace. Durcan was marking Clifford for the goal yesterday and got burned for pace, because he hesitated, when have we ever seen that
• We need some full backs, not sure where they are coming from though, I haven't seen too many in club football, maybe Sean Holmes for us but he is young and light. Harrison is a massive loss. You can't expect to contain top quality full forwards with a full back line made up 100% of wing backs
• Thought Stephen Coen had a very good say yesterday after a poor year
• As for forwards in the county I'm not sure theres anyone not involved with the panel thats scoring heavy - Healy was in for a while at the start of the year but very hard to come from a junior team. Maybe Colm Moran?
• I don't think its viable for Horan to stay on, there is just too big a group that want him gone and when you have that donkey in London stirring things it has turned toxic. Rochford would be my man as the next manager. McGuinness or Gallagher if they could get them otherwise

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256390#Comment_119256390

Hope all is well with him, he was a great contributor.

Unfortunately, I think he seemed to post less when he became a moderator, and like many maybe, the new site wasn't hard to leave.

happyoutscan

I'm not sure if there are better options available, but I think a change of scenery is definitely needed.

As for the suggestion that ROD was fit but not selected. Nonsense.

I though Coen and O'Shea were fine yesterday. However, I'd be concerned about the lack of pace from both Coen and Cillian.

Kicking balls into the corner for Cillian to ridiculously chase - when it was apparent it was not going to work was headwrecking.

Hope the team enjoy their few weeks of summer.

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256688#Comment_119256688

• I'll be interested to see what McBrien can do if he can put the injuries behind him. Looked solid, if understandably raw, in the few cameos we've seen to date. Big potential there for a powerful 3 that would be comfortable being pulled out the field too. I'll be crossing my fingers watching Ballagh' this year.
• Big potential in Alfie Morrison in the coming years in the corner but he's probably a bit away yet on the S&C front. Again, be keen to see how the year pans out for him. (Conal Dawson the other I'll be paying a lot of attention to. I'll be surprised if both don't start sniffing around panels in the next 3 or 4 years)
• On forwards not sure anyone shooting the lights out that's missing (debates to be made about Boland on that one I guess) but serious work to be done on the setup, structure and drilling of the lads in general. Far too many shots coming from just outside of a decent range rather than just inside, again. Has killed us all year. The 'easy' fix to that one is more pace up there (so Tommy and Ryan) to create gaps and opportunities that bit further in. A little too easy to stay on top of a forward line where James Carr is our outstanding pace and the next best is probably Diarmuid or Jack Carney (both brilliant lads, but pace wouldn't be their outstanding feature).

Whats the story with the Durcan solo? Its very annoying to watch and if anything it seems to slow him down

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257175#Comment_119257175

Not even sure it's a solo anymore. More like a toe tap.

He seems to only do it under pressure / when surrounded, I'm surprised opposition haven't been calling out for frees for it tbh.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257572#Comment_119257572

It's legal alright I'd say - the rule is "may be played from the foot to the hand - toe-tapped". I presume he does it as it's harder for an opponent to flick the ball away

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257620#Comment_119257620

I always thought it had to leave the hand though, maybe he is releasing it a few mm.

MacDanger

Yeah, I presume he releases it a small amount

Green&Red

O'Neill had a similar solo, it definitely left his hand which was enough

Vish81

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257572#Comment_119257572

Thing is he seems to do it in space also, and when trying to break from cover. In the past, afterburners on, hop and a solo and Paddy was gone, now its his little toe tap and he is still in traffic. And while he is still getting forward there seems to be less intent and pace. Injury still a concern I wonder?

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256655#Comment_119256655

Its both. His season as a whole was one of his poorer ones, but his performance yesterday was an improvement and furthermore he was probably better than several other middle third players - none of whom are getting much criticism here. Surely you can see how biased that makes the thing sound?

Why do I have to either think he is great or sh*te? It is far more nuanced than that.

He got a black card but it was a bad call. He didnt deserve a black card. I dont see how you can criticise him for that, its completely unfair. It should have been a yellow card for both, or nothing for either. Im no oshea apologist, but we have to be fair with assessments if we want to improve.

Call me Al

Just announced that Horan is stepping down as manager..

What now?

Blackjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258180#Comment_119258180

Let's hope there isn't a balls made of the appointment process this time around.

irishgeo

Will be interesting to watch

blowitupref

In full rebuilding mode it was achievement in itself to reach back to back All Ireland finals in his 2nd term. He has once again left a rebuilt panel behind for the next manager to take over not the same talent and leadership as was left behind in 2014 however.

franklyon

No surprise to be honest, he gave us some memorable days though. Hardly his fault players cant put the ball over the far from 20 metres. Was not a fan of his in game management but best of luck to him.

gigantic09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258354#Comment_119258354

I don't think the new manager will have to face the likes of the juggernaut that was that Dublin 6 in a row team so even though the squad won't be as good as previously we still have potential to be there or there abouts I think.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258425#Comment_119258425

Agree with that. I think we'll go close again next year providing we get a good replacement.

martyos121

Hopefully it isn’t a backwards step with Horan departing, ideally someone with better game management skills will come in and build on his work but I’ve little faith that the correct appointment will be made.

Best of luck to Horan though, he did his best with what he had and would’ve wanted more than anyone to be the manager to end the drought. It wasn’t to be and after last year, it looked like he just didn’t have the tools to make that happen. There’s no shame in that, most wouldn’t even come as close as him. His skills are probably best suited to identifying and assisting players to make the leap from the U20s to the senior setup.

The Supporter

Appoint an All Ireland winning Manager ( Gavin, Mc Guinness, Fitzmaurice), what ever it costs, do it for the sake of Mayo Football. No time for experimenting with an Untried County Manager.

Word on the grapevine is they already have the new man lined up. A bit of a surprise candidate. Chap by the name of Tim o' Leary.

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258486#Comment_119258486

Not sure if that plastic-Englishman would be up to it tbh.

PressRun

Loved Horan's first stint in charge and wished he had stayed on for 2015. Was perhaps unlucky not to finish the job in those years.

He revitalised everything and did a huge amount for our psyche. Ultimately a limited manager maybe, but a great rebuilder.

Important to get the next appointment right but I've little faith in the county board.

blueser

Bit of context here; I live in the Charlestown area (have done for 40 years). Anyway, I'm on here with a serious question. Did my post after the game yesterday (for which I've received a warning for "trolling") genuinely upset/annoy/ people on here? If it did, I apologise for said annoyance/upset that it caused. I don't, however, apologise for the actual post. It was posted in the aftermath of the game, and the sense of annoyance I felt at another opportunity being thrown away. Could I have phrased it differently? Quite possibly. But I tend to call things as I see it. Anyway; once again, apologies for any upset that I may have caused.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258648#Comment_119258648

I've been crying all day after it

naughto

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258486#Comment_119258486

Jimmy sloyan says hello

Green&Red

Horan is almost solely responsible for where we are now and where we have been for the last decade and some. Few people have done as much for Mayo GAA.

It's a shame he never won it.

Having said that I do think it's time for a change

MayoAreMagic

Jack O'Connor is someone who i feel would have potentially improved us. It is unfortunate that he is gone back to kerry at this juncture.

I too feel that at present, there is damn all between the best teams in the country, and that a good appointment with some returns from injury and returns to form for a few more could see us right in the shake up.

The thing is, what managers are out there? Gavin wont happen, (i dont think it would work anyway, personally) Neither will mcguinness.

Ray dempsey? Kevin walsh? Mickey harte? I couldnt see mcdonald going for it but i see value in his presence.

Clareman here. Just want to acknowledge the professionalism and class that James Horan showed throughout his two stints as Mayo manager.

Always came across as decent skin in interviews and yesterday was no different, compare that to the nonsense and tetchy conduct of the Armagh manager yesterday.

Maurice Sheridan who managed NUIG to Sigerson Cup success earlier in the year and Solan who managed the Mayo U21’s to All Ireland glory in 2016, a game that I was at, as it was in my hometown In Ennis, would be the local contenders for the vacant gig. What about Kevin McStay?

An outside and external candidate should be the replacement for Horan. But please don’t go near Jimmys winning matches. Had limited stints with the Galway footballers and the Waterford hurlers and by all accounts he flogged them so hard that the players nearly had their legs broken off.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice would be my pick. Led a bang average Kerry team to win the All Ireland in 2014. But whether the Mayo CB would go for such a left field candidate is very doubtful, especially after their shanigans during the Holmes-Kennelly debacle in 2014/2015.

HBC08

No one man has done as much for Mayo football as James.I just hope whoever takes over can keep us at the top table.

We have the players (especially with injured lads to come back) for next year but we are at a crucial juncture now.The likes of Ray Dempsey are not going to be the answer (no disrespect to him) I think Andy should go for it.

Unfortunately we took a step backwards with regards to the County board personnel and I have no faith in them to do anything right.

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258425#Comment_119258425

Juggernaut Dublin may have been but a few matches against them, the drawn 2016 AI especially was a game that was more there to be won than the 2012,2021 AI finals against Tyrone,Donegal IMO.

He who shall not be named had this last night, which makes me think there is some gobsh*te in the county board feeding him information which means as long as this gombeenism continues I struggle to trust the Mayo county board will do anything to benefit Mayo football over factional self interest

gigantic09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258806#Comment_119258806

Last year was soul destroying surely and we still haven't recovered.A fresh start will help that process.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258832#Comment_119258832

Or player group?

supernova5

the ideal managerial candidate for Mayo now would be the Dalia Lama, divine inspiration is what's needed...

MacDanger

Sad to see James Horan departing without landing the big one; he gave us many many more good days than bad and I suspect we'll only really value him when he's gone.

When I've listened to people giving out about him over recent years, I often think about this article from September 2010 and where we could have ended up:

Lyons T for Trouble? Mayo’s D-Day is Here – An Spailpín Fánach (anspailpinfanach.com)

The reaction in Mayo to what is expected to be a rubber-stamping of Tommy Lyons’ appointment tonight as the new Mayo senior team manager by the Mayo County Board has been varied.

Storming the Bastille

On the one hand, there are those who wish to storm An Sportlann, headquarters of the Mayo County Board, just as French stormed the Bastille in the name of liberty, before they made their way to Killala to spread the same gospel of freedom here.

And on the other hand, there are those who just want the pain to stop, like that clapped-out boxer on the telly who yearns for the old one-two that one only gets from Uniflu™. Think of the prisoners on the Moorish ships in Chesterton’s Lepanto, who find their God forgotten and seek no more a sign. You get the idea.

There are very few who welcome Tommy Lyons’ appointment and the one emotion that the Bastille-stormers, busted boxers and prisoners-broken-by-years-of-adversity share is a deep and dark dread towards what the future may hold under a Lyons stewardship.

It’s not about Tommy Lyons personally, although it can’t be said he helps. Mouthy metropolitans are seldom welcome back the heathery mountain. The big problem that people in Mayo have with a potential Lyons appointment is the way the appointment was made.

Heartbreak and Bitterness

After the heartbreak and bitterness of John O’Mahony’s Second Coming the Mayo Board was in humour to salve wounds. They promised a process through which a new man would be appointed, divisions healed, new processes set in place and the Good Ship Mayo pointed to a brave new tomorrow.

Everyone who got involved in that process now seems to have been sold a pup, as horse-trading went on behind the scenes. The result is Tommy Lyons. The stories about the nature of that horse-trading vary, but the bottom line is that there are very real fears that the Lyons appointment will happen for reasons other than what is best for the county team.

Liam Horan has been put in charge of a Strategic Review Committee but Horan’s first job as chairman of that committee will be to explain how exactly it’s the case that Tommy Lyons has a better chance of having a Mayo team still playing football in September than James Horan, Denis Kearney, Anthony McGarry or John Maughan. Or Mick O’Dwyer, if it comes to that. Because it’s not at all easy to see right now.

A lot of this has to do with the responsibility of the County Board. What is their duty? Is it towards the clubs, the debt on McHale Park, or have they also a duty to field the best team they can in the senior inter-county football championship?

There is no doubt – except, perhaps, in the addled minds of the GPA – that if there were no clubs there would be no GAA. But the county team cannot be treated in so cavalier a fashion as to appoint a manager for reasons other than his being the best man for the job.

In Memory of Our Fathers

People live and die by their county teams. This is true for all counties, of course, but – and An Spailpín must confess a certain bias here – it seems especially so in Mayo where the people are so defined by what the football team does. The very notion of the team, of a Mayo style, of the unique colours, has a resonance for people that transcends a game or an organisation. The notion that there is a Mayo team out there, playing football, is a part of people’s souls. It helps people understand who they are.

For instance: a great and good friend of the blog was at the 2004 final, and he got talking to the man next to him. The guy next to was from Limerick, but he had hunted down a ticket and come up anyway, because of his father.

His father was a Mayoman and had died earlier that year. The son was making a vigil to Croke Park to do honour to his father’s memory, to see a Mayo victory that was no longer possible for his father but that would have meant so much to him had he lived. The Mayo GAA scene meant nothing to this Treatyman, but the very idea of Mayo was vivid and clear in his head.

He went home disappointed, as did we all. But that man, whoever he is and where-ever he is now, deserves better than this. He did honour by his late father’s memory, and he deserves better. The poor deluded fools who travel on Sundays for FBD League games and National League games as well as the glamorous Championship games of high summer deserves better than this.

The gobdaws and buck eejits and helpless innocents who daydream at least once a week about what it will be like when Sam returns to Mayo deserve better than this. The ludramans and the mentally unbalanced who compose greatest-ever Mayo teams drawn from men who never played senior club football in their heads to pass the time deserve better than this. Or else it’s time for us all to wonder just why we invest so much emotional energy to just get smacked around by an ungrateful lover. Again.

The Eleventh Hour

Today the eleventh hour, but it’s still not too late. The Board can still turn away from the Lyons candidacy and appoint James Horan, one of the stars of the first John Maughan team of the mid-nineties and the current manager of Ballintubber, now contesting a county final for the first time in their long and proud history. Horan has galvanised the anti-Lyons feeling and become the people’s choice. It’s up the Board tonight to do the right thing. God be with them.

MacDanger

Lots of comments about the county board which is understandable tbf but when we talk about them getting the "right candidate", who are you referring to? There are no real (realistic) stand out contenders imo. The bookies have the odds as:

Dempsey 2/1

Solan 9/4

Sheridan 4/1

McGuinness 4/1

Deane 10/1

McStay 10/1

M O'Rourke 12/1

Rochford 12/1

Andy 14/1

C Mac 20/1

Boyler 20/1

Out of those, I'd probably have Malachy O'Rourke or Rochford as my top pick but all of them have question marks against them to a greater or lesser degree

Oscar Bravo

From Midwest Radio "

Ray Dempsey has been installed as the early favourite to become the next Mayo Senior Football manager.

The back to back county title winning Knockmore manager is the 2/1 favourite with Paddy Power to replace James Horan as Mayo boss.

Horan stepped down earlier this evening less than 24 hours after the eight-point loss, bringing to an end a second four-year term.

Former All-Ireland U21 Winning Mayo manager Mike Solan is 9/4 to succeed Horan.

Elsewhere, the bookies have both Maurice Sheridan and Jim McGuinness installed at 4/1 to become the next Mayo manager.

Other names mentioned for the position are Sean Deane, Kevin McStay and Malachy O'Rourke".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259091#Comment_119259091

The right candidate is difficult. The right process is not.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259234#Comment_119259234

Fair point, you'd hope that it will be transparent

grbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258832#Comment_119258832

I wouldn't pay much heed to that. Looking at Horans post match interviews yesterday you'd have been leaning heavily towards the idea he was going.

Higgins5473

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