Looking to move... WTF is going on with prices?

bswan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893337#Comment_117893337

Yes I do get that, I've been looking for a house for quite a while. The prices they are listing them at are in line with the area/street or slightly below. Yes i expect them to go over asking price in this market and I have an increase factored in to the price before going viewing, but not 20% over asking, which is the point I'm making. Do you not get that?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894553#Comment_117894553

So your complaint is they are doing it more than you like. They can and do and don't have to pay any attention to how you feel about it because it works. Do you not get that? Bought and sold a lot of property and that is the game I have seen property sell over 50% of an asking price. What do you think can be changed about it?

bswan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894696#Comment_117894696

go back and read the comments again, the prices are listed inline with what id expect for the area by looking at the property price register and the market we are in, as in they are listed below the PPR for that street to yes attract more attention. by "They" i assume you are referring to estate agents and no they are not doing anything more than id like i think they are listing them as id expect, for example: if they go sale agreed over the asking price by say 10% id expect that in this market but 20% is just too much for most people, its the bidding wars driving it up by such a percentage that i was highlighting.

i never mentioned my feelings once or asked anyone to pay special attention to my feelings, so why are you bringing that into it ?

"Bought and sold a lot of property" - delighted for ya

"I have seen property sell over 50% of an asking price" - even more delighted for ya

people in my situation just want to be able to buy a place without getting absolutely fleeced, throwing all life savings at it and crippled with debt by having to pay X% more way over the asking price than a year or so ago. Most people just want to buy a home for themselves. do you not get that ?

you can see clearly its a thread about people struggling with house prices, yet you come and and lord it about the property you have bought and sold and that we don't understand "the game". we understand it all to well ! but its the kind of reply i would have expected

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895222#Comment_117895222

You don't get it. You are expressing your feelings and emotional about a home. You are complaining about how the world works because it effects how you feel it should work. Just because some people want to talk about how unfair prices are doesn't change that the discussion is about what is happening. What is happening is some people don't understand how bidding works and prices rise when people have more savings to buy property with. Reality is you are looking at the wrong price bracket if they are all going above your money. Adjust your expectations to the reality you are in. Your expectations were wrong so far so the fault doesn't appear to be with the professional person hired to sell the property and getting the best price. Whether you like it or not it is how the property market works.

Have you some suggestion to make it different? If you were selling your home would you want the best price for it?

bswan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895328#Comment_117895328

"If you were selling your home would you want the best price for it?"

-of course i would, at the detriment to society ? possibly not. i never once said i don't expect or i don't want house price to rise, once again im saying its its the rate at which they are rising

"Reality is you are looking at the wrong price bracket if they are all going above your money. Adjust your expectations to the reality you are in. Your expectations were wrong "

- how do you know I'm in the wrong price bracket ? maybe i can well afford it but refuse to pay it, maybe i refuse to pay something that is 20 - 25% more than it would have been a year ago, maybe the house was in a condition that it wasn't worth the price it rose to but some family is so desperate for a roof over their head that they felt they had to bid that amount and that im lucky enough that i can walk away from the likes of that as im not under that sort of pressure. you know nothing about me or my circumstances so stop making assumptions. would you pay 20 quid for a coffee you wanted just because you wanted it and you had 20 quid in your pocket ?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895535#Comment_117895535

You really are over the place. Determinate to society. 🤣You have money to pay but will not pay because you think it is too expensive etc... If prices go to the point you won't pay then you are looking in the wrong place whether price,condition or location, that is it. Sit on the fence and wait then it might or might not work out for you. How do you know people are buying out of desperation and not they think that is the correct price?

Are you just moaning or do you have a solution?

bswan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895699#Comment_117895699

You're the one all over the place. where did i say "Determinate to society", once again i have to tell you to read a previous comment "detriment to society".

"How do you know people are buying out of desperation and not they think that is the correct price?" - if you think this is not happening you are well and truly all over the place.

no need to worry about me sitting on a fence or not, id gladly be in my situation looking to buy a house, than actually owning one and being a miserable person.

Conversation finished for me

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895759#Comment_117895759

Sorry spell check misfire. You pointed out I couldn't know whether you can afford the prices or not and I am pointing out you don't know how much money the other buyers have. If you can't see that is a hypocritical view I understand. Why am I miserable? I don't agree with you and point out reality to you?

Of course you want to end the conversation because you can't actually challenge reality. Again are you just moaning or do you have a solution?

bswan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895799#Comment_117895799

I didn't call you miserable I made a hypothetical statement, you joined the dots to yourself.

bswan

I'm ending the conversation because I have better things to do than have it out on an Internet forum with the likes of you

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895699#Comment_117895699

Are people not allowed to come on here and vent a bit, without having to provide detailed solutions for the entire housing crisis? Like it or not, a home is an emotional purchase. I think bswan's point was just that if properties are selling for 20% over the asking price, the estate agent didn't set the asking price very accurately. Yes, they sometimes set it lower than the expected sales price, for all sorts of reasons, but 20% less?

reubenreuben

It is in the interest of the estate agents to get as much as possible as they charge on a percentage of the sale price.

If they were forced by legislation to charge a fixed price instead, then this would stop their 'artificial' bidders pushing up the prices..

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896511#Comment_117896511

I dealt with an estate agent recently on a fixed fee basis. So it does happen.

There was an agreement of a higher fee if a figure way above asking price was achieved, which didn't materialize and realistically was never going to happen

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896511#Comment_117896511

I'm no lover of estate agents but with the commission at say 1.25 per cent of a sale the incentive isn't there for them to make up bidders. An extra 20k on the sale price gets the company 250 euro. And for the agent personally, I'd guess next to nothing.

Only incentive to get high prices is to impress other potential vendors. And maybe in situations where they've over promised a certain price to a vendor to get them on their books. But in pure financial terms for them personally, getting the highest prices comes a distant second to closing lots of sales very quickly.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896511#Comment_117896511

Estate agents don’t work for, nor act on behalf of the buyer. Their job is to sell that property for the maximum the market will pay for it.

I’ve never understood why people get so hung up on advertised prices for properties, there is no onus on the buyer to offer that price, it is just a guide. Offer 20% below, or 20% above, there is no set requirement, ultimately the property sells for the highest price someone is willing to pay, irrespective of the advertised price.

In all the years of viewing claims on boards about “artificial” bidders, not one person has ever offered conclusive proof they exist. In the current market, why would they exist? Are there not enough genuine bidders to push selling prices up?

Noo

So I've recently bought a house, not in Ireland, but reading whats on these property threads, the situation regarding supply, demand, and rising house prices is definitely not unique to Ireland. Just in response to people going to town on real estate agents, a few items that came to light during my dealing with them:

- They have to buy in this market too. The market is running away and they cant afford to buy homes either.

- People put in an offer for a house for what they think its worth and get angry when the real estate agent tells them that there are higher bidders. They dont get the current market and cant understand how someone could offer more than their perfect bid. The estate agents say people have getting really aggressive with them over this.

- The real estate I was dealing with was actually lovely, after she said "if youve any friends wanting to sell, send them my way". I laughed and said ive plenty buying, none selling. She said thats the problem, shes no houses to sell.

So while everyone thinks estate agents are to blame and they are raking it in at the moment, its not exactly an ideal situation for them either.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896433#Comment_117896433

People can vent all thy like but have to be honest about what they are doing. The question is are you moaning and do you have a solution. Both can be answered honestly. It seems you are telling me the other poster is answering Yes they are moaning and no they don't have a solution. They didn't answer and disliked being told about reality.

During the prices rises in the past there were other complaining the same way saying they wouldn't buy because last year prices were 20% less for the same type of property. Then waited for a price drop prices rose again and they kept complaining and not buying. Went on like this for a number of years. People then aid they would wait for the crash and then buy. The crash happened and then they couldn't buy as the banks wouldn't loan and/or they wanted to wait longer. They then basically aged out of mortgages and stuck renting.

It seems people are not familiar with the most widely known tale from Freakenomics about estate agents not really that bothered about pushing up the price as the effort reward ratio is off and it is not worth the hassle. Better to sell another property than spend time pushing up a price of a house they are already going to sell.

If your objective is to buy a property complaining about the price rising does not help you and wishful thinking where prices align with your view doesn't really happen. You might get lucky and time it right but that is a massive gamble. People who were in negative equity actually did well once they didn't sell.

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898173#Comment_117898173

I don’t understand your point. I and others can use this forum for anything I want, as long as we stick to the charter rules. If I want to complain and vent about a housing system that has utterly failed the people of this country, I can do so. No it’s not going to change reality, but it helps me sometimes to share those experiences with others, who are going through the same thing.

I suppose you’ve never gotten upset about anything in your life? The housing situation in this country causes an incredible amount of stress, anxiety and devastation for people here. People are delaying or not having children because they can’t find anywhere to live. I think it’s you who’s being unrealistic by expecting people to just shrug that off and say “that’s the way it is.”

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898766#Comment_117898766

I am equally free to express my feeling on people moaning. You see how it works now. I am also not saying shrug it off I am saying you have to deal with it one way or the other Being dishonest about what posts are is the issue I have. If you are moaning then say you are rather than go around the houses saying I don't understand why they are moaning. People can wallow and do need a dose of reality to deal with the actual world rather than having confirmation.

Sit on the fence and complain won't get you a home. It may very well prevent you getting a home. Reality is if you spend your time complaining rather than dealing with an issue is an unrealistic way to progress. I am upset about how the public view on housing is so immature. The poster I addressed said people paying more than him are desperate without any back up along with their own valuation of the property was right. That is more than moaning and hypocritical by saying I didn't know if they could afford it or not.

Dishonest and hypocritical views should be challenged regardless of the subject. Saying I can't express my views because people are venting and have the right to complain is a hypocritical view. I have just as much right to comment and challenge a view by your own words

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896433#Comment_117896433

Yes they do that. it creates a lot of interest, gets people talking. More talking is more potential bids.

People get sucked into over buying and upselling all the time. If its stupid but it works, then its not stupid.

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898867#Comment_117898867

I still don’t understand your problem. Of course you can say whatever you want, so can I and others. That should be the end of it.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898942#Comment_117898942

I don't have a problem you have the problem with what I expressed which is the end of it. A true hypocrite never acknowledges it

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898999#Comment_117898999

The only bit of your posts I take issue with is where you try to moderate the posts of others. This is getting ridiculous now. I’m out.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117899005#Comment_117899005

A true hypocrite never acknowledges it.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895535#Comment_117895535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898867#Comment_117898867

I don't mean to join the (heated *ahem*) conversation but the conversation does have some interesting points there that i thought maybe it is worthwhile to further discuss on them. Somehow this is touching the 'mystery' that I have observed in Ireland (nation with a tiny population) - the prices of things (not just houses, like you know, the average cost for a pint, a meal etc) are generally insane in Dublin especially if you compared to big cities like London, Paris etc.

So I quite like the analogue (not really a strawman right) from bswan and this may be touching the core of the 'mystery' - this valid question:

Would you pay 20 quid for a coffee you wanted just because you wanted it (and you had 20 quid in your pocket)?

(Now, there are coffee beans that I have purchased €200 for 100g i.e. near €40 for a cup but thats beside the point lol)

So yes, given the condition that the coffee in this town is mostly €3-5 - if you see someone is suddenly selling €15 - oh yes, you bet people will react for sure (and there is no hypocrisy in that). €7-8? Oh ye for sure people will wonder what's happening - in general though, in a normal world, people will say no and that €7-8 coffee shop will shut down soon if they don't adapt to the reality. But ya, we are actually seeing insane pricing like that in Dublin (€10 for a pint at temple bar ahaha) and people actually eat it up - is this a good thing or bad? Who is the biggest winner in all these?

Obviously the housing prices is more complex but the point still stands. For myself, I don't give in to b*llsh*t in life that no chance i am paying for the same coffee for €15 (this is irrelevant to how much i have in my pocket btw) - hate it when i see those 'fine dining' that slap a gold leaf on a burger and sell it at €100 - but I think most people don't think or act like me here now. I might actually give it a go for the experience for some truly exquisite coffee etc for €15 you know, you get my point.

So ye, the things happening in town/city/nation are due to the people - currently yes, nothing is normal anymore. And yes, it is a mystery to me why the prices are insane and this housing problem will never be resolved - look at that laughable 500quid tax for vacant places - do people really have the hearts to face the problems and really say "enough b*llsh*t!". And people wonder why things over here are so easily manipulated.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900206#Comment_117900206

Ireland is unique in a few ways.

Ridiculous standard to reposes a property not being paid for (higher mortgage costs result)

Ridiculous long process to evict non paying tenants (high rent)

Higher rental standards and less costs to tenants (high rent) [ in Germany you provide your own kitchen]

Punitive tax threats on landlords (less rentals resulting)

Insurance payouts and costs (higher cost of labour and services)

Central employment around capital (higher pressure on a finite space)

Selling social housing at a discount (less social housing)

The reliance on private landlords to provide social housing (less rentals in the private sector)

High minimum wage (higher labour costs)

Historical destruction of property that was seized by governments and got free money to develop (larger stock than we have that they don't sell)

These are all a result of public pressure and desires which are counter to cheaper prices. I can go to Spain and buy a cheap drink but the tax the bar pays is less, labour cheaper, insurance cheaper, property cheaper etc... To expect the same price in Dublin is just unreasonable. What is social welfare and disability payments like in Spain compared to here? How often do you see a disabled person begging for money in Ireland? Go to a Spanish city and look there.

People don't actually realise that there are lots of benefits here and that those things have costs which somebody has to pay. Add more taxes on landlords is a common belief rather than reduce the risk to landlords so rent will be cheaper. Make it so banks can reposes property quickly and easily with debt forgiveness for the people. We are a post colonial country with a massive chip on our shoulder about authority and land ownership. We as a nation need to grow up and take responsibility for the costs of unreasonable protections.

lossless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900206#Comment_117900206

It is no mystery why homes are priced the way they are.

There are three key basics.

1) There is motivation for it. An awful lot of money "on the table". A means to lengthen the QE intractability via hoarding of paper value. Easy for amounts of money to go missing when it's flying all over.

2) Irish people are very much low confidence "pleasers", an historical and present-day malaise that will have them saw their own legs off if it means looking like a good boy to their supposed peers. Generally a low-information population that believe what they're told to believe.

3) both points above combine to insure that the housing crisis continues ad infinitum. How many years has the mantra of "supply" been given to the masses? How many more years will they accept it? Plenty more.

To the coffee analogy, if the various providers combined in unison and decided that all coffee will now cost an average of 20 euro, aided by some nefarious publicity and one-sided "information", you can bet your arse that people here would pay it. And naturally there'll be an army of self-destroying nutters that will defend it into the bargain for want of looking the good boy.

Pushovers get pushed over. The reasons for this housing crisis are plain to see, but the pushovers don't want to see it.

It's all pure and utter manipulation.

Dizzyblonde

Mod warning:

Stop bickering please. If you have an issue with a post, report it.

positivenote

kind of back on topic....

latest price on the property we were very interested in is that its guide price was 475k and the current offer is 550k with 3 left biding. Jesus I hope this is not the norm now.

Villa05

Limerick city a relatively small geographical area finds enough state owned land in the centre to build 3000 homes plus new parks and cycleways.

Amazing timely discovery considering the supply shortage.

I wonder could there be other such discoveries in our other cities

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/largest-ever-transfer-of-state-land-planned-for-2800-new-affordable-homes-in-limerick-40857807.html