Does your club charge members admin fees for casual rounds?

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741207#Comment_117741207

I presume that overtime the WHS could starting with simply search criteria and later using AI be able to highlight possible handicap padding... That is one of the main advantages of having all this information computerised...

In future should be easy for a Handicap Sec to check the big movers...

Our club only checks the top ten cards for competitions.... But even in saying that, a buddy accidentally put in for a hole in one on a par 4 and they still had him in the prizes... He obviously corrected it but we got a good two weeks of slagging on him all the same..

DuckSlice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956885#Comment_118956885

Yea its only one competition ran over 3 days. We don't have big numbers in comps if we only do one day comps. There is probably only 75 members that would enter comps.

To be honest i think it should be up to the player if they want to enter casual rounds or a comp. We pay a Golf Ireland fee for a handicap and the use of the WHS system so it should be available at all times. Its up to the handicap secretary and committee to police people taking advantage of it.

slingerz

What’s the steps involved in recording a

general play score in an away course? Have a few outings next week for my holidays and want to record my scores

sean.ocall

You and your playing partner can enter a score in the golf Ireland app and approve each other's rounds. You need to start the round on the app before teeing off at the course but you can enter the scores just after finishing. Select your playing partner as the approver after entering the score and it will show up straight away. Takes a day for any handicap changes to be applied.

tommyaipsd

Absolute joke that you get charged for casual rounds. The whole point of membership is so you don't do that.

Just on the replies speaking about HC abuse, at a previous club I was in, I was "offered" the chance to get my HC higher by some, for a better opportunity to finish in prize places of a comp, and split the prize money with the lads who got the HC up.

BraveDonut

I would report that - you don't want people like that in your club

PARlance

Our club has introduced a €5 admin fee for processing a casual round. Crazy decision imo. The lads playing 5 casual rounds in the week in between round 1 and round 2 of Captain's Prize will see the €25 or so as money well spent but it'll put off honest golfers from recording rounds for handicap purposes throughout the year.

Just deal with the problem directly rather than trying a half arsed solution that ends up taking away from one of the only positives about the new system.

Seve OB

Crazy that more clubs are introducing this still. What do they do if you don’t pay? And what happens if you stick a score up at another course? They charge for that also? They still have to do the same admin on it don’t they?

the second point your making Parlance is that you just assume everyone putting in casual rounds is doing so to hike their index up. I think it’s probably fair to say that it is the minority who do that

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035290#Comment_119035290

I presume it'll be a straight reduction from our competition purse but I haven't looked into it further.

I didn't make the point that everyone putting in casual rounds is hiking up their index Seve.

My point is that this fee has (more than likely) been brought in to try to discourage the people who are hiking up their handicap (I don't think it'll discourage those people) and instead it will probably only discourage honest golfers. Honest golfers will still continue to submit casual rounds but not at the same level as before imo. I certainly won't be paying the fee on principal.

blue note

I'd be surprised if many would pay to submit a round. And I'd probably include the people hiking up their handicaps for that, so maybe it'll do some good for that.

It will be an absolute pain in the ar$e for people trying to maintain an accurate handicap who don't get to play in the comp every week. I don't think it's worth it.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035492#Comment_119035492

You would be surprised what goes on in some clubs. Our captain's day winner shot a net 61 in round one, played 5 days in a row iirc (or 5 rounds, I think he took a day off but doubled up on another day) of very bad golf and started the final round a week later off a higher handicap than he had before shooting the net 61...

€25 quid won't be stopping that carry on.

But that carry on is why we're paying the €5 fee imo.

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035669#Comment_119035669

That sort of blatant carry on needs to be dealt with by the club though. I know my club contacted Golf Ireland about someone notorious, not sure what came of it in the end but his handicap seems to be a good bit lower this year.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035682#Comment_119035682

The club did something, they introduced an admin fee for casual rounds... joking aside, I'm not sure what was done behind the scenes but even with a manual adjustment, it's very easy for these guys to get back where they want to be soon enough.

blue note

I suspect that the lads who do this wouldn't dream of just writing down the wrong score or kicking their ball out of the bushes. Which is so strange, because it's in reality no worse. In a way it's better because it's less premeditated.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035737#Comment_119035737

they can only go up 5 shots, so slash them back more than this and they can't recover for the entire year, if they do, another cut, and do on

spacecoyote

Seems a strange practice to have handicap change between days in majors.

In my place you play off the same handicap on both days of the majors, and any cuts/increases are only applied after the overall comp is complete.

The admin fee thing is crazy though and seems to go against the spirit of the new system

Mantis Toboggan

Wonder if participation on comps has declined as a result? That's probably why they're charging to recoup the money lost on comps.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036115#Comment_119036115

As much as I would like to see the carry on wiped out, I don't envy a club having to deal with it. Could be a costly exercise, maybe the fivers will go towards the legal fund.

It all goes back to the new system for me, it's way too flexible for the cute whorism that goes on in Irish golf. I don't think any one club can stop it tbh but some clubs seem to have a lot less of it going on.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036206#Comment_119036206

sure that would make it even worse

in this case they try to undo the damage done by the one good round

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036272#Comment_119036272

as long as any correspondence is between the handcap sec and the player they are safe from any defamation as that pensioner in Lucan found out, I presume a costly lesson, thats put people off repeating his mistakes

can they refuse a renewal of membership?

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036470#Comment_119036470

Not sure how this makes things worse?

I agree on one side that someone could shoot a 61 to qualify and play off the same handicap a week later in the final. But it eliminates the behaviour highlighted by ParLance of someone playing off a higher handicap in the final day then they did in the qualifier by playing a bunch of casual rounds between days.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036206#Comment_119036206

That seems stranger imo Space! But it would eliminate the problem. Then again, you would have a lot of people playing off an incorrect handicap for a week as a result? I can imagine the hassle if one was to go to a neighbouring club and win an open or something.

Maybe they'll have to bring in a rule in our place that no rounds can be submitted in the 5 days in between if you qualify for it.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035377#Comment_119035377

I doubt these fees are being brought in to combat any handicap manipulation. I would think it’s just clubs looking to generate revenue where they can. Some will need to do this more than others.

As someone above said maybe comp fees are down. Peoples attitude may have changed since pandemic where comps weren’t allowed. I often wonder why a 90 year old who gets out for nothing more than enjoyment with his mates, keeps putting in his 5er comp fee every week when he has about a snowballs chance in hell of winning anything. Maybe now they have just stopped paying in. I play in one place where they have a 2’s comp. But after I got a 2 one day to find out it didn’t count because it was on the wrong hole I don’t enter it anymore.

I’ve no doubt there has always been a lot of lads who nearly never play comps for whatever reason and at least now they can play counting rounds, these clubs are just gouging.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036547#Comment_119036547

They are building their score, then say putting in a gross 61 on day, getting a cut, then going out doing 5 days of dodgey golf to counter the cut that shooting say 13 shots under their handicap might make

Russman

Haven't followed all the posts on this, but I thought that if its the same competition, you play off the handicap you started to competition on ?

Like, you could be off 10 in round 1, shoot a good score, and you still play off 10 in the final round, BUT if you play a different competition on say the Wednesday between rounds, you play off your "new" handicap, no ?

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037247#Comment_119037247

Yes, that's what I was talking about from my side. I may have made a poor job of describing that.

Your record would be updated based on your Scores, but your handicap in a 2 day comp would be based on the handicap you played off in the first round.

If someone has built their handicap prior to the comp, there's not a lot you can really do to deal with that is there? We had it happen in our place for Captains last year, and there's still bad blood in the place over it

BraveDonut

Is there an actual requirement to always submit your casual rounds or is it only for those that you plan to play under competition conditions.

My friend and I usually play a casual 9 on Thursdays but we play more that one ball, don't always finish out, etc

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037422#Comment_119037422

sure it depends on who sets the rules the comp is played under, you can do either

if someone builds a handicap up and shoots the lights out in the captains or whatever there is something you can do, a cut, a rule that if you win one year you can't the next etc, same as normal comps, win two and say you are out for the year

its unlikely someone who isn't manipulating would win 3 comps anyway

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037520#Comment_119037520

Not for casual rounds no. If you choose to declare the round before you start as counting for handicap purposes then you must submit it. No obligation to declare any casual round though. Its largely to allow people who don't compete in competitions often to have their casual rounds count towards their handicap so that they can keep their handicap accurate and up to date.

dan_ep82

Making "bandits" pay for the privilege of building a handicap is not a solution at all. If they cough up the €25 a week is anyone actually happy about that?Punishing the majority for the alleged actions of a minority is a poor way of looking after your members.

If it's about recouping costs from lost income from competition fee's , make the competitions more appealing. Find out why your members aren't interested in them anymore.