Too many people would have to keep it a secret...

King Mob

So looks like we'll not be getting any answers from Alan about any of the points he's avoiding.

Again this behaviour and these points highlight the argument we're making.

Alan claims that no wreckage from Flight 93 was found. He also repeats his claim that the items that were found can't possibly be real.

The only two relevant options for the existence of these objects are either they are real and from the flight, or they are faked and planted. If there's other options, no one is suggesting them and I can't think of any that make logical sense.

Note however that Alan deliberately and purposefully avoids saying where he believes those items came from. He doesn't want to outright say that the items were fake and planted even though that's the only option open to him.

I'm sure he'll whine about being "on the fence" or something, but this is made transparent by his repeated dismissal of the official explanation.

So he believes that the items, passports, wedding bands etc are fake. He doesn't want to admit this though because doing so means he might have to defend this notion against the many, many problems with it.

If the conspirators faked these items, then it means they needed people to design the items to fit into their narrative about who died, where and when. Then all of these items need people to manufacture and craft them to look like they'd been in a plane crash. Then they would need people to go out and plant these in the rights spots or have them handed over. Then they would need people on the inside of the investigation teams in various agencies to overlook the fact that these items are fake and announce they were real.

This would require at least hundreds of people all working in complete knowledge of what they were doing and why. All of who stayed completely silent.

And according to Alan, these hundreds of people all worked for nothing. This is because according to him, all of these items couldn't survive the plane crashes and therefore give away the fact they're fake without need of any other evidence. Did none of the people working on these plot realise this?

And then, we still don't know why doing any of this would actually benefit ad conspiracy. Adding these items, even if it wasn't "obvious they couldn't survive", doesn't really help the conspirators.

And then, Alan is also arguing that none of the blackboxes were found even though he believes they all should have survived and should have been found. So according to him, the conspirators spend a huge amount of resources and manpower to fake items that don't benefit them and actually expose the conspiracy, but at the same time, they didn't bother trying to fake blackboxes that would have benefitted them and wouldn't give the game away.

This clearly does not make any sense.

It could be that Alan knows this too, hence why he wants to avoid the topic. But I think it's more that he didn't think this deeply about his claim, but knows that because of this, he wouldn't be able to explain it when someone did.

So again, we have 100s of people being added to the conspiracy for no reason just to make a piece of "evidence" fit.

And this is before we also add in the 100s or people required to help make Flight 93 and all the people aboard disappear.

Again conspiracy theorists show that their conspiracy theories are impossible because they require ridiculous amounts of people involved in plots that don't make any sense.

arthursway

Enough people certainly kept Jeffrey Epsteins situation secret for long enough.

To be fair to Alex Jones he was banging on about there being an island where the elite bring children to for years and alas it turns out true.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630530#Comment_118630530

Wasn't kept a secret very well. Official investigation started in 05 or 06 if I remember correctly.

Many in here refer to conspiracies that would have to involve thousands or even millions of people, all being kept perfectly under wrap.

arthursway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630711#Comment_118630711

Imagine if a poster here on boards posted that they heard there is this money manager guy that has his own Island and the queen's son, politicians celebrities and elites fly out there out for parties where underage girls are being trafficked for sexual acts.

You and I both would think they are crazy but they wouldn't be.

Then did he even kill himself?

Where and how did he make all his money?

Was he an agent and of so for which country?

What happened at these parties exactly?

Which celebrities/politicians did what?

So many questions and conspiracies with in conspiracies. I doubt we will ever find out the real truth especially now since his passing but what an unbelievable case all the same.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630919#Comment_118630919

Right. My point was that Epstein didn't manage to keep it a secret, it started to come out around 17 years ago.

arthursway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631119#Comment_118631119

Forgive me I thought you might want to actually partake in conversation about a conspiracy on a conspiracy forum my bad.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631152#Comment_118631152

Okay but you suggested a lot of people had kept Epstein's secret for "long enough". I don't see that as being the case. It wasn't a very well kept secret at all.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630919#Comment_118630919

That's not a conspiracy theory it is very believable.

Wasn't the Italian prime minister involved in the same sort of scandals.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058202675/too-many-people-would-have-to-keep-it-a-secret

Absolute correct. Pretty sure Mossad and CIA conducted hidden OPs still persist to be secret decades afterward. When agents are authorized to communicate we find out about it. Absurdity to claim leaks would Just simply happen. The conspiracy too big speech hear from debunkers.

To be honest: the JFK conspiracy and UFOs

. Leaks have developed but do we have a coherent picture of what has happened and what the US government truly knows ( probably not) Think most sensible and leveled people would believe the official stories were not quite right that something else was going on. UFO conspiracy went mainstream so it is no longer a story we have to explain. US government itself maintains there something there but what that this something is, not sure least the side of government whos enthusiastic release information. I am certain there is another side that wants to public clueless about visitors from somewhere else coming here.

9/11 is exceptionally difficult to believe for many ( i get that) due to complications of preparing buildings for demolitions before a substantive attack. Leaks about “ Able danger” and CIA knowledge of Al Qaeda moving inside the United States for years before the event you just know things are off about the event . The official narrative does not sit well with all leaks coming out. The fact CIA is still hasn't revealed what the surveillance operation found is highly suspicious to me. Tracking two of the Pentagon plane hijackers for two years inside the United States. They have to got video, audio, and a lot of detailed files on the subject somewhere?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893709#Comment_117893709

Whatever you want to believe about 9/11 is down to you. I think this revelation by Richard Clarke a high-level official in the Bush administration should be a wake-up call for the mainstream. Why was the CIA actively withholding information about the 9/11 terrorists from him? Doesn't make any sense when you look at his profile!!!

"National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism, the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the National Security Council. Under President George W. Bush.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Richard Clarke still trying to understand the cover-up years after the event when he spoke to people. He has a theory that makes sense to him. That revelation tells you a lot about the CIA. There was some operation happening in secret, big prior to 9/11 that they wanted very few people to know about it even major players in government. We can only speculate since the CIA denies it all still twenty years on.,

Video very informative about the dark side of the CIA and secret operations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl6w1YaZdf8&ab_channel=FF4Films

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781268#Comment_118781268

You believe a massive list of characters (including secret Nazi's) were involved in 9/11. Likewise you believe a cartoonishly long list of people (including secret Nazi's) were involved in JFK.

You are agreeing with a poster who thinks satellites and all space travel are fake - a conspiracy that would involve millions of people, all in on it, for no apparent reason.

If you want to believe those kind of things, fine, but all these fiendishly complex plans always work perfectly in your world. Yet in reality, politicians can barely do anything without cocking it up.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781593#Comment_118781593

That’s his point of view ( haven’t read these posts). Don’t have to comply with everything they’ve said, to understand they make here some good points. That kind of conspiracy( pointed out) would be hard to maintain long-term and there be too many countries involved.

Strong opinions about certain conspiracies. You accept the official line on it all. Differences between you and me see patterns that seem off. That doesn’t mean the official line is not true (partly don't seem to get that )

Gaps between what we know and don’t know is what I look at. You settle on the known stuff and leave at that!! Not wrong facts are important, but conspiracies have a tendency to be true. UFOs were dismissed by your side for a long time now gone a bit quiet since the US government said objects that may be alien in origin are coming here.

9/11 could have happened as the US said terrorists boarded planes and crashed planes. I debate it but overall the story probably happened like this. I consider it’s all possible there were other things that occurred that’s hidden and would modify the narrative. You assume that's impossible because we would turn up this information by now? I think that is not true since we know every last detail of every operation carried out by an intelligence agency if that was the case.

I don't think it would have required a major network of people to come together to topple buildings. If you knew a foreign terrorist group was coming to attack America you got plenty of time to use this operation for your own twisted aims. There lot of info still unknown here.

If you opened your mind. Nazis did not just disappear after WW2- they had a full-fledged Nazi SS officer involved with NASA.. Do you think his indoctrination abruptly changed? For me, conspiracies, the people involved, the moral compass is messed up. I don’t rule out there was a Nazi involved in the planning to kill Kennedy. There is a book about Hitler's best assassin who was hired by the CIA to shoot at Kennedy. Doesn't make it true anytime until we have facts. But there was more than one shooter that day, all the evidence points to that, so I don't mind thought who could have done it.

9/11 who knows but they definitely a shadow network of criminals and power players carried that demolition job out. Likely suspects( Mossad and CIA) but open ( have to be) some other sinister Nazi-like group in the shadows ( stuff that doesn't make sense ) Again a demolition job was done in secret and whatout anyone finding out, all amazing to me how they got away with it!! The people are fascinating characters though scary what can of planning was done here before 9/11 and how was it all put together. Maybe the theory nonsense but the demoltion of WTC7 occurred and and that most involve people.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781692#Comment_118781692

You randomly decide something from history is "fishy", and you then invent your own made-up story to explain it, which becomes the "truth" according to you. You change your mind a week later and invent another story. Rinse, repeat.

These scenarios you create have fantastical plans involving huge amounts of people doing fiendish things and everything works perfectly without a hitch. And you're the only one who has uncovered this plan, until you change the story a week or a month or a year later.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781692#Comment_118781692

What countries are involved and what secret has been maintained exactly? NASA is a very small branch of the CIA, literally 99% of the work is contracted out to 3rd party organisations who fire a rocket off every once in a while. All the deception lies in the fake footage they release, which does not take a lot of people to produce. And, in all likelihood, many of the people who are making the fake footage aren't even "in on it". The vast majority of the population are not even watching the footage or even thinking about space for that matter. So it doesn't take much to maintain a deception. (911 has fared pretty well for the last 20 years)

There are so many videos showing how they deceive, including some incredible gaffes. Unfortunately, much of this footage has been taken down.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784427#Comment_118784427

NASA isn't a "branch" of the CIA. You believe all space flight, satellites, etc are faked. That wouldn't just involve NASA (and anyone who has ever worked with them from the sixties), it would involve Russia's space programs, the Chinese, European space agency, etc. Plus anyone whose ever worked in satellite TV across the world, oh and everyone whose ever worked on GPS. Plus astronomers, physicists and significant chunk of the science community. Ah yes and the approx 10,000 SpaceX employees, Blue Origin's 4,000 employees.

We're talking millions of people, all perfectly keeping the whole thing a secret over decades

Or you are simply wrong..

Dohnjoe

robinph

There are so many videos showing how they deceive, including some incredible gaffes. Unfortunately, much of this footage has been taken down.

"Loads of evidence out there to back up my claims, but it's all been deleted so I can't show you it, but it's all out there if you 'do your own research'".

Dakota Dan

Money talks and there are plenty people after letting a few secrets out but of course they are discredited.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784692#Comment_118784692

Is there any sensible explanation of how, or why, the world is flat but yet the entire worlds space agencies, communication companies, amateur astronomers, pilots, navigation companies, sailors, or anyone with a basic level of secondary education on maths, geography or any even vaguely science based subject has instead decided to keep quiet about it all for unknown reasons?

Dakota Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784855#Comment_118784855

The world is a globe, what exactly does that have to do with a political agenda? Nice try though.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784427#Comment_118784427

Countries considered to be rogue Iran and North Korea have Satellites it is just impossible for the entire world lying about space. Too big of a secret and there are hundreds of thousands of people working in this field of science for them all to be covering up. I don't believe in a flat earth or that kind of thing doesn't make sense to me. You can see the moon on a good night does it look flat?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784348#Comment_118784348

Thousands of individuals would have to know about the planning and the operation ( believe this to be true ?)

All is needed is a trained hidden unit ( 8 to 10 men) the time to do the rigging up part, attach the explosives, the steel, access to the construction fittings, and work completed.

Commercial demolition crew will employ budget-grade explosives to bring down buildings, I don’t believe the people who took down WTC7 on 9/11 are cheap and have a restricted budget.

It’s persuasive to me since there is no evidence of this having happened anywhere else due to fire. Every record there is shows fires can not wreck a steel-framed tall structure like this. You have a strange out-of-place new deviation occurring on 9/11. Fires somehow functioned differently from fires before in the past?. Don’t make sense. The only explanation for free-fall collapse in tall buildings with a steel frame is controlled demolition.

Even NIST confirms their theory an unfamiliar one (it's an alternative explanation to explain the collapse that no base on real facts and will explain the collapse was the result of fire) They didn't create a new theory, the only last explanation left open to them is explosives) and did not want to open the pandora’s box to that!

Cheerful S

Right there in Q and A

Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone?

NIST starts off.(The collapse of WTC 7 is the first known instance of a tall building brought down primarily by uncontrolled fires)

https://www.nist.gov/pao/questions-and-answers-about-nist-wtc-7-investigation

NIST is admitting to the public WTC7 first time this has happened anywhere. That alone deserves investigation Instead conspiracy theorists are accused of lying and all sorts for asking important questions.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786390#Comment_118786390

But your alternative is that 16 dudes secretly demolished the building with secret high tech experiment silent explosives for literally no reason. And that then the people involved in the conspiracy then admitted this on camera. And that also for some reason they told the BBC to announce it before the building collapsed, again for no reason.

That's very silly.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784976#Comment_118784976

The question was about how many people would be needed to keep a conspiracy quiet, any conspiracy. Thanks for agreeing that Markus Antonius idea of a flat earth is nonsense though.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786323#Comment_118786323

Show me two conspiracy theorists on this forum who believe the exact same story about 9/11?

Why is that do you think..

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786145#Comment_118786145

What makes you think Iran and North Korea have satellites? I'd like to actually see what they look like and what they are used for.

Why do you think a scientist working on a space related project automatically means that they would be in the know and would have to keep a secret? If you are designing a novel vacuum resistant hinge for a door - why must you be made privy to the entire deception to do this?

It is clear that you have fallen into the same irrational hole of "too many would need to keep it a secret"

Dohnjoe

One of the first times I've ever seen one conspiracy theorist challenge another here..

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789490#Comment_118789490

The only reason we can't have useful discussion is because of trolls like you. And alas, this is the last comment I will make towards you in this thread (and hopefully sitewide)

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789571#Comment_118789571

You have a belief that satellites don't exist. Rather than ever explain this belief (and you've been given every opportunity) you instead choose to go into a complete meltdown, through tantrums, create fake photos, accuse everyone of being trolls.

If you have a belief that you can't support, it's not anyone else's problem but your own. I'm just curious as to how you support such a belief, but I guess we'll never know.