The climate report and aviation

Micky 32

Since the doom in the media today that we're all going die in a climate apocalyptic event where does this leave aviation? Is it the death knell for aviation?. I'd imagine a bit devastating for people who have families in other countries that they won't be able to travel to. Will aviation still carry on or is it the end?

Oafley Jones

It won’t end, but when the **** really hits the fan it’ll be costed out of existence for an awful lot of people. There will need to be alternative though. I keep on thinking about one company that’s currently pitching airships as a possible alternate for freight.

Atlantic Dawn

Aviation represents 2% of global CO2 emissions, I can't see any reason for any change needed at all.

https://www.iaa.ie/who-we-are/aviation-and-the-environment

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731118#Comment_117731118

At the moment. Aviation's emissions are expected to rise to 25% of the total because it a) plans to continue growing and b) has no realistic way of decarbonising in the medium term.

It surprises me that emissions isn't more of a hot topic in aviation. All threads here on the topic die fairly quickly, and there is little or no discussion on sites like pprune. I suspect the reason for that though is because the only "solution" if you can call it that is to effectively cull the industry through taxation. Change is coming though, there is an EU aviation fuel tax on the horizon, so it really is something that needs to be talked about.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800033#Comment_117800033

Have you got a source for that 25% figure? Becuse even with carbon emissions elsewhere reducing to 50% of current levels, that would only put current aviations emission up to 4% of global emissions. The airline industry is not going to grow to over 6 times its current size. Plus we are already seeing more fuel efficient 'cleaner' aircraft with the likes of the Airbus NEOs and the 737MAX and 777X coming into service. There is also serious money being put into alternative fuel and engine research.

3d4life

EU will continue to take ever increasing amounts of gas from Russia. EU have no plan to run on renewables in the near future. They have kicked the can down the road by going for 'carbon neutral' ( dieselgate deja vu )

Aviation is a minor sideshow relative to this

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800474#Comment_117800474

The plan is for all other sectors to go to net zero but aviation has no plan. Aviation is forecast to continue to grow while everyone else reduces. ICAO forecasts 300-600% increase in emissions by 2050

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/07/if-airlines-were-a-country-theyd-be-one-of-the-worlds-top-10-greenhouse-gas-emitters/

I'm not making this up. Every sector will need to be seen to pull it's weight otherwise you'll have farmers, energy producers saying, why does aviation get a free pass?

The problem for aviation is that it, sadly, has no technical path out of this. Electric planes are generations away. Synthetic fuels are ferociously expensive.

That could also be why there is no appetite to talk about this in industry. There is no solution.

Strumms

Flying literally can’t stop....

whatever about the need for people to travel, cargo / freight of an express variety cannot be put on boats.

right now dedicated cargo flights and space in belly compartments of passenger aircraft are transporting everything from...

medicines, pharmaceuticals, diagnostic samples - hazardous cargo, perishable cargo, stuff that by its nature isn’t being shipped for profit although it’s profitable but because it is urgently required...quickly, somewhere....by someone, for someone... fast, lives depending on it.

To fly is convenient of course, but it is fast.. there other huge contributors to climate change...

burning fossil fuels

deforestation

Agriculture industry.

miscellaneous industry.

when is the last time anybody went on tv bemoaning the agriculture industry for their part ? Easier to stand there pointing at the sky... and pointing the gun at the ordinary citizens if there are any bullets left after firing shots into the sky.

smurfjed

Read an article this morning that reports the mobile phones / computers / tablets are responsible for up 3.9% of green house gasses, that double the figure for aviation.

Flinty997

Back to sailing ships....

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875576#Comment_117875576

The difference is that these have a clear path to Net Zero that aviation unfortunately doesn’t have [1]

The above all charge from the grid, so as the grid goes Net Zero, they do too.

[1] though given the relatively short distance between Uk and Ireland, battery powered planes might be able to just about make it. And then there are hydrogen powered planes that Airbus is investigating

smurfjed

@BK, not all of the impact from mobile devices is from their daily power usage.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905493#Comment_117905493

Sure, around 75 to 80% is from production (factory, mining, etc.). But what happens if those factories producing electronics switch to carbon neutral grids, if the trucks delivering components too and from those factories and the mining equipment all switch to EV vehicles charging off a carbon Neutral grid?

The carbon footprint of the electronic devices can drop substantially. As an example Apple are aiming to be carbon neutral by 2030:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/07/apple-commits-to-be-100-percent-carbon-neutral-for-its-supply-chain-and-products-by-2030/

3d4life

The difference is that these have a clear path to Net Zero that aviation unfortunately doesn’t have

Rocket propellant has a route to 100% renewable so why not aviation too ?

BTW Net Zero is a cop out...weasel words...even the present consumption pattern can be made Net Zero...

bk

"Rocket propellant has a route to 100% renewable so why not aviation too ?"

Sure, Biofuels and eFuels, the issue with them is that they tend to be a lot more expensive then oil/traditional aviation fuel, which of course would lead to higher ticket prices.

Also Biofuels have other negatives. They can take up vast swathes of farming land that could otherwise be used for food production and can lead to rain forest been cut down and cleared for more land to grow. However they are likely the only option for most airlines.

Excellent video on the topic by Real Engineering here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BK7PRugK4

faceman

The EU transport ministers met some months ago to discuss aviation and ending low cost flights. All transport ministers, including Eamon Ryan, were in support of it

Eamon Ryan is a clown. He was the only European transport minister who attended that no alternative but to fly while every other EU country has access to a rail network to travel around the bloc without having to set foot on an airplane.

Eamon Ryan was quoted as saying we need to price flights so less people will fly.

We live on a **** island. What a wanker

Strumms

Eamon Ryan is not pro transport never mind pro aviation , he is a @#%#....Ryan as a minister for transport is no more then a pandering shîtebag move on the behalf of FF.. it would be like nominating somebody from a pro smoking lobby to be minister for health... a fûcking bone headed appointment.

Atlantic Dawn

When it means they now have to go to Dollymount V's Marbella, Kildare Village Outlet V's New York people will vote with their vote, green ideas will be out on their hole.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936483#Comment_117936483

every other EU country has access to a rail network to travel around the bloc without having to set foot on an airplane.

Err... Cyprus? Malta?

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013832#Comment_118013832

Really? Is that all you got?

Hotblack Desiato

I didn't dispute Eamon Ryan being a clown... but saying we're the only island in the EU is laughable.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936483#Comment_117936483

Wow. Some personal abuse there. And you are also a moderator??

there’s an age old debating phrase - play the ball not the man - focus on the issue itself and not ad hominem attacks

Do you realise huge amounts of Ppl fully support Minister Ryan’s efforts to decrease air travel?

if anything, ppl want more action.

Are you aware of a thing called the climate emergency??

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027709#Comment_118027709

Fair enough wanting a minister who champions looking after our environment but the particular minister mentioned above seems ridiculously incompetent. And in a way, that might actually weaken the climate agenda! I just can’t hear the name without picturing him asleep in the dail and also cleaning his glasses with a used face mask…..