Vaccination requirements to work in a tech job office in Dublin

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783647#Comment_117783647

Well, depending on which side of the abortion debate you were on, it could be argued that it was precisely a case of your choice somebody else's body.

Society is a very broad term, North Korea have a society too, but its about what type of society you want to be a part of. If vaccines and lockdowns are acceptable for a virus with a mortality rate in the fractions of a %, then where will the line be drawn? How many people die on the roads each year or over the last 10 years? Should we ban cars and force people to only use public transport for the greater good?, if people did that less people would die on roads, so we should do it based on the current logic. The loss of freedom and economic cost is a small price to pay to save lives right?

These vaccines are only partially effective at best, that's a fact. They have done a great job protecting the most vulnerable but they're job is largely done. Viruses are part of society, always have been, always will. I'm not anti vax, far from it, I even get the annual flu shot sometimes and my kids are fully vaccinated, but I have a problem with this particular vaccine for lots of reasons, both medical and ethical, and in a free society I should have a right to express those concerns and decide if I want to take it without reprocussions.

Vaccinated are about 50-70% less likely to catch the virus, but are more likely to spread it when they do catch it, so the argument about unvaccinated spreading covid isn't very strong, they're only marginally more likely to be spreaders, and less Lilley when you consider 90% are vaccinated.

Deub

Once you think you have the perfect candidate. Bring her/him to the nearest pub where you know they 100% check the DCC, for a chat about the position and see how it goes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784010#Comment_117784010

"Vaccinated are about 50-70% less likely to catch the virus, but are more likely to spread it when they do catch it"

Source please?

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784044#Comment_117784044

Better yet, just conduct the interview in a pub. More seriously though, employers can just separate candidates into two sets - vaccinated and unknown and take it from there.

robbiezero

If you are vaccinated, what does it matter about who is unvaccinated?

Richard Hillman

I am currently WFH with some talk of some people returning to the office. I noticed about a month ago that management have stopped talking about vaccinations. Never have I been asked in general chit-chat conversation by anyone senior about if I have been vaccinated or not. Seems to be a HR thing "Do not ask".

Charles Babbage

Presumably the cure for this is to have interviews in the pub and check everyone at the door.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784109#Comment_117784109

When I started my new job I was warned on the first day not to ask people if they were vaccinated. It was "politically incorrect" I was told.

Not sure how many employers would be bothered trying to lure candidates into pubs. Sounds a bit comical.

Is a company liable if their employees get covid? In my experience if a company isn't liable for something then it isn't an overwhelming priority.

There is a labour shortage with rising wages atm, in some sectors at least.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784104#Comment_117784104

You know full well no vaccine for this is 100% effective.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784104#Comment_117784104

If vaccines were 100% effective in preventing infection, it wouldn't matter as much but that's not the case. People would still rather not pick up covid, even if they're vaccinated. I wouldn't die from being slapped across the face by a wet fish wielded by an even wetter fish but I'd still prefer that it didn't happen.

growleaves

Everyone is going to get covid and many more people have already had it than tests show.

It's only after the vaccine campaign started that the vaccines suddenly became a mechanism for disemploying, shunning and demonising the small number of people who for whatever reason aren't taking them.

I don't remember hearing anything about locking a section of people out of society until the last few months.

What a disappointment these vaccines have been, politically if not medically. They aren't bringing freedom, just more terrorised scapegoating rubbish.

They're not 100% effective, so you still have an excuse - though just barely - to treat other human beings as it they are nothing more than toxic bio-hazards.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784681#Comment_117784681

It would depend on the velocity at which said fish hits you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784681#Comment_117784681

Bit of a drama queen there.

Who is locked out of society? I think the vaccines and indeed the uptake in Ireland has been fantastic, not sure how anyone would see the vaccines as disappointing?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784753#Comment_117784753

No one is locked out of society. However there is a push by people such as yourself for that to happen. You would clear a path to ban unvaccinated people from all or most jobs. If we have another bad winter you might get your wish.

Last year there was anger and scapegoating of people who wouldn't stay at home. I was hoping with this vaccine campaign that the anger would dissipate. It hasn't dissipated, it has simply been transferred to a super-minority of unvaccinated people. Therefore the political effect of the vaccine campaign has been a disappointment imo. All of the bad feeling, recriminations, fear and hysteria have been retained in a slightly altered form.

This 'political effect' has nothing to do with the medical aspect of vaccines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784799#Comment_117784799

Actually I am pro choice, if you don’t want it, don’t get it. I do not support making vaccination compulsory. But, if you decide not to get vaccinated, I do support the right of the Government/business owners to deny you entry.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784858#Comment_117784858

Then you are an anti-choice fascist.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784681#Comment_117784681

That's to be expected and there's historical precedent for it. It's also not that long ago that the antivaxers on team Measles got a few wins under their belt by helping to create outbreaks here and abroad where it had previously been eradicated. And it today's interconnected world, we can see what they're capable of in the US where their kind are clogging up the hospitals, forcing more legitimate patients to wait or forego treatment. Thankfully, we don't have as nearly as many as those loons over here but it's always a concern. Rightly or wrongly, there's a perception that these types are assisting with the spread due to their inaction of a disease that we're starting to get a handle on. I know that it can feel unfair but societies tend to take a dim view of those with negative effects on that society. It's always been like that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784894#Comment_117784894

It’s a cross I’ll have to bear then, while I’m drinking my pint and eating my steak, inside.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784858#Comment_117784858

If unvaccinated people are barred entry from all public and private indoor spaces that qualifies as locking them out of society. It's a wicked thing to do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784902#Comment_117784902

They lock themselves out. You know in advance what the terms of admittance are, if you do not agree to those terms, then I don’t see why a business owner should be forced to admit you.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784894#Comment_117784894

That's pro-choice. With his way, both parties get a choice. Forcing people to accept the unvaxed into their business removes that choice from the owner.

growleaves

mcmoustache,

What historical precedents?

There are the Victorians, who starved out our ancestors. They also put down the Indian Mutiny and prosecuted the Crimean War.

There are no precedents in the free world of western Europe post-1945.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784902#Comment_117784902

Coppers don't let the trouserless sections of society into their establishment. That annoys the trouserless but all they need to do is put on some trousers and they can get in.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117779794#Comment_117779794

Lots of jobs require you to present for and pass a medical. And divulge your full medical history within a certain timeframe to them.

if you apply for a job and your employer wants to know if you’ve been vaccinated against covid, that’s a reasonable question in my view... you can choose to answer or not... if you choose not to answer I would like that employer be of the ability for the good of staff, contractors and indeed any customers you’d be in contact with, to not offer the position if that’s what they felt was in the best interests of the company, customers, staff and contractors.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784914#Comment_117784914

No, you lock them out and gloat about enjoying fine food and drink.

Don't fear death, fear becoming evil.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784922#Comment_117784922

Those damned Victorians.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784922#Comment_117784922

Antivaxers during vaccination drives have been disliked since vaccinations drives.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784937#Comment_117784937

I fear neither, if supporting the rights of people to choose whether they get vaccinated, and businesses to admit based on medical advice, then it’s evil I am, damned evil at that.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784922#Comment_117784922

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784858#Comment_117784858

I won't claim to understand the reference to the Victorians but as far as precedents go, many western countries insist on MMR vaccination for children to be educated.

If selfish Irish people have to go without pints for the winter, then I think that's a fair trade off.

But you'll all just lie about it anyway. Because that's what selfish people do. They sort themselves out, don't give a fnck about anyone else and this thread is irrefutable proof.

And none of this is really about vaccines.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785018#Comment_117785018

Your comment is unreasonable. How is this thread irrefutable proof that all unvaccinated people are habitual liars, as well as totally self-interested and that this discussion has nothing to do with vaccines?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784914#Comment_117784914

In many cases, though, people are unvaccinated on medical advice, because of reaction to a previous vaccine, or some other condition.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785048#Comment_117785048

I didn't think the comparison of Covid vaccines with the Famine or Nazi Germany was particularly reasonable either, yet here we are.

But it's not about vaccines. It's a general disaffection with society.

The people who don't want to get vaccinated are the same who protested against lockdown, don't think masks are useful, think it's all part of a plan to keep us in check, the government is corrupt and so on.

Vaccination is just the latest battleground for such people. If Tony Holohan came out tomorrow and said "actually, vaccines are useless and we're stopping the program immediately", there would be a Damascene conversion to the merits of getting a jab.

growleaves

How do you know that people who opposed lockdown and the unvaccinated are 'the same people' other than by assumption?

Disemploying people is hardly going to convince them that theres nothing sinister going on.

We knew all along that not everyone would take a vaccine. Then in the last few months posters such as yourself appeared, arguing that unvax people should be bounced out of jobs, banned from public places etc.

Abandon your fanaticism and the issue goes away.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783980#Comment_117783980

The hard hat was not my choice, it came from the post I replied to. Nobody denies the benefit of vaccines but there is an issue over how those who are unvaccinated are viewed and more than a hint that they should be forced to do so. If that's the position fair enough but people do need to stop playing lip service to the claim that they do actually believe in freedom of choice. Personally find it a dubious position to adopt but clearly quite a few others do not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785140#Comment_117785140

What medical conditions/reactions preclude you from being vaccinated? I understand pregnant women are advised not to get vaccine before 14 or after 36 weeks, is there any other? Please don’t guess the answer to that or provide a link to some wacky Facebook page.

DublinWriter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784963#Comment_117784963

People can choose whether or not to arrive to the workplace butt-ass naked. Their choice.

But their choice has consequences.

Unless your immuno-supressed, stop being a petulant 5-year old and get the vaccine. It's good for you, it's good for everyone around you.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784570#Comment_117784570

I know and we just have to live with that.

Vaccinated people can spread it too. Likelihood is that a huge amount of people will get it in the future vaccinated or not.

Personally I don't care if I'm in a place where a few might be unvaccinated. I probably caught it a wedding last weekend, nearly everybody at it that went for testing seems to have got it - all of them vaccinated. Not even a sneeze for any of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784681#Comment_117784681

Meh. Just hold your breath 'til it's the triple injected vs. the double-or-less injected.

growleaves

By the way, umpteen restaurant owners have said outdoor dining is here to stay.

For one thing, they're concerned the government could ban indoor dining for all again.

Finding a rain-sheltered, heated outdoor area will be trivially easy for now on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785348#Comment_117785348

And eating outdoors in driving wind/rain/snow/frost will always be enjoyable.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785269#Comment_117785269

Choice often can have consequences. There is no such thing as unlimited choice. We are very lucky in Ireland that we have had such a high uptake in vaccination. That has allowed us choices other countries have had to limit. Because of a high percentage of unvaccinated people in the US they have allowed employers to discriminate against unvaccinated workers. It is a reasonable decision IMO and in the opinion of other. Its similar with MMR vaccine in the US some schools require children to be vaccinated. You have the freedom to remain unvaccinated but society has the freedom of choice to set limitation to other freedom if you choose to asset you right to that freedom.

Twenty years ago you were free to smoke indoors in pubs and 10+ before that you could smoke in the workplace. But those freedoms impacted on others. So Government legislated that both workplaces and closed in area's in pubs were non smoking area's.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784902#Comment_117784902

What's wicked about protecting people from a potentially life threatening illness?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785396#Comment_117785396

We have great fresh air in this country, something I noticed when I got back from the Continent.

Once you are sheltered and a couple of heaters are banged on, what's the problem? Some outdoor areas are very elaborately covered so even wind shouldn't be bad.

When you're indoors having your pint and steak indoors this winter, don't look out the window if seeing unvax people doing the exact same thing troubles you.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785239#Comment_117785239

All it takes is a couple of weeks on boards.ie. The same usernames keep popping up. There is no scientific overlap between vaccines, masks and lockdown- the only common thread is your perspective on life.

The irony is that those who were most against lockdown are now the loudest opponents of the only thing that can get us out of this pandemic. It's baffling but utterly predictable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785445#Comment_117785445

It troubles me in no way, having sat outside a few times during bad whether over the past couple of weeks, doing so during the winter doesn’t fill me with enthusiasm. I am happy for those who choose to preclude themselves from dining indoors to avail of the comforts of outdoors dining though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785304#Comment_117785304

Pregnancy is only one, if you had anaphylactic shock from a vaccine before, you just need to get a specific vaccine. Live vaccines are the ones that you can't get if you're immunocompromised. Anyone immunocompromised would have been in early phase of vaccines.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785442#Comment_117785442

Barring some from most or all employment in a roundabout way is wrong cause people need to earn a living.

AndrewJRenko

No one is barred from employment. If they want employment, just get a vaccine to protect their colleagues and customers.

They are choosing to exclude themself.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785466#Comment_117785466

If people refuse proven, safe vaccines, they are barring themselves.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785453#Comment_117785453

I'm not arguing against vaccines though, I'm arguing against bouncing people out of their jobs for making decisions about their own health/body.