Emerging from "Situationship" with an alcohol-dependent guy

Originally posted most of this in Long Term Illness due to the significant alcohol dimension but it may gain more traction here.

I am new to the world of severe alcohol dependence and have been in a steep learning curve. I'm emerging from a "situationship" with a guy I've known since some time after last Christmas. Had no particular intention of dating etc but came to know him through another general chat online forum, when he started by offering to bring me food etc when I happened to mention I was stuck in isolation during Covid isolation. Long story short, a mutual sexual attraction developed and moreover a strong friendship, but one severely compromised by what emerged to be his alcohol dependence which contributed to growing health issues and recently some unpredictable short stay hospital admissions due to neurological complications with injuries. 

He disclosed a large amount of personal trauma he had suffered as a child, no fault of his excellent and supportive family. He has had relationship issues, and since Lockdown and home working it seems the issues have overall accelerated. Basically a very good guy, and an extremely physically gentle person, he has nonetheless been recently throwing very cutting jibes my way, particularly following his last hospital admission where I had helped him in a particular way I won't go into and had assisted him to an immense degree over a few practical and emotional issues. He has expressed very dark thoughts, and this has been immensely stressful for me. His has lashed out equally at his family too in similar fashion, and sees us as thorns in his side who have the power to divide him from alcohol. 

The other night I reminded him, after another little jibe, that he was trying to undo our friendship, and I ended up being deleted from his contacts as well as deleting himself from mutual contacts on a WhatsApp group after typing that I would be about to say nasty things about him. He should have known that is not my style, but due to the shocked surprise of others I did put something of a sympathetic context on it. He had briefly alluded to the group he may have issues with alcohol and mentioned me as somebody who would give out if I saw him drinking a certain substance. His lovely kind supportive family describe me as a "saint" and said it is a miracle I have got this close to him the way he is acting now. But we agree he has really just started to admit to the full extent of his problem, and has made attempts to stop drinking which seem to have provoked the physical health crises. He has been instructed to attend a GP for onward referral to better care, but currently the GP in his small town is full. Family members have died from alcohol related issues, but family believe he is on the verge of seeking real help, and he has told me he will too. Trouble is when he doesn't work he doesn't earn, and taking time out to recover is something he feels he can't afford. 

He lives alone bit near enough family members who hope and believe he will pluck up enough courage to seek the help he needs. He cut me off the other night when I tried to very seriously set boundaries to his terse insults as my own stress levels were through the roof and impacting my own health. He actually did not and still does not have the cop-on to realise how he has come across not just to me but others. He got ahead of the mark to deleting me before I might do it to him, but he needed to understand that delayed apologies count for nothing if no change is to be embraced. His family believes I did the exact right thing to set that boundary no matter what.

There is an a computing or provocative mood /impulse disorder in the pot, according to what he believes to be the case, and I would imagine he's not far off the mark as he spends long periods sleeping when not drinking, but when alert and sober is highly intelligent and can work effectively if not always consistently. Gets a tad hyper-enthusiastic at times before abandoning a project, something that spans across all aspects of his life.

I am particularly interested to learn from people who have been some time in recovery from alcohol dependence and can share their experience of having lashed out verbally to those closest to them without even realising they were doing so at the time and simply not having insight into how their alcoholism was affecting others.

I'm distanced from the situation now, but trying to make sense of it and how I let myself get roped in. I think I was bored during the pandemic as I would have avoided this situation at all costs outside of the lockdown scenario. I'm kind, sympathetic and helpful by default, and possibly might lend myself more easily to co-dependent type situations. I'm also interested to hear from anybody who has been in a similar position as myself and how you might have made sense of it to restore your own mental equilibrium.

Thanking anybody who responds with helpful.insights and wishing you the best in your continued recovery. 🙂

Big Bag of Chips

I hope that you stay distanced from the situation. Every line you typed screamed at me. The denial, yours and his. The hope that you could get him to seek help. That you could be the one to cure him. That you believed you had, or could have had, some sort of influence.

All the warning signs were there from very early on. I really do hope you have walked away, and stay away.

I am with my husband 21 years. Last year, I finally walked out. His problem drinking wasn't something that was present from the very beginning. Over the years it progressed to a level that made life too difficult for me. But we had a home, and a family. If someone had held up a magic mirror 20 years ago and showed me how my life was going to be I would have walked away there and then. Eventually, walking away and refusing to have anything to do with him for as long as he continued to drink was the only thing that worked for me. Fighting, coaxing, begging. None of it made any difference. Because I was still here. Still enabling. Still keeping up the pretense of a normal family life. His life wasn't being affected, whereas mine was. Hugely. I walked away and made it clear I was not going to live with him drinking anymore. His drinking stopped. Immediately.

Do not ever knowingly get involved with someone with a drink problem. You will never be their priority. You will never be their number 1. You will be the one they use to get what they want, and then abuse when they don't get what they want.

You have no power or control over the situation. None. There was nothing you could ever do. You hadn't the power to come between him and the drink. If you had, he wouldn't be drinking now. His family thinking he is close to looking for help? Irrelevant. Until he actually reaches out, and stops making excuses as to why he can't get help, then he's no where nearer getting help today than he was last year.

I always link to the Merry Go Round Called Denial in threads like these. It was first published over a decade before I was born. Possibly even before my parents met each other. Yet reading it I was certain the author must have been observing my life, me, my husband. Because every word hit home to me. Read it. Re-read it. And stay the hell away from someone who is "close to asking for help". Until he's sober, properly sober, you have nothing to offer him. And he has nothing to offer you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784545#Comment_117784545

👍 Indeed I am well distanced both physically and metaphorically. Yes he is the only person to help himself. Exactly as his family says.

Big Bag of Chips

You are still invested though. You talk about him blocking you, him cutting you off when you were setting your boundaries etc. You don't set boundaries. You don't talk him through what you are going to do if he doesn't do x, y or z. You just turn your back, walk away, and draw your boundary from a distance.

You shouldn't know or care what his family think. By keeping in touch you are keeping a line open, or trying to. You are trying to get him to react, to realise. You are still stuck on that merry go round.

Jump off it, walk away from everyone still on it, and don't get dragged back on. Leave them all to it. He's not your responsibility. And you can't save him, you can't convince him. He doesn't care about you. Not enough.

Now, YOU should block all avenues he has of contacting you. Don't let him in. Because I have a feeling it really wouldn't take an awful lot for him to suck you back in. People who are involved with alcoholics really are stuck on a Merry Go Round. Repeating same behaviours. Same actions. Same outcomes. But always believing this time is different. It never is. Not until you break the cycle.

TheadoreT

That whole thing reads a bit off to me. I think a long term partner of someone who developed an alcohol problems would have great difficulty staying with him but you voluntarily chucked yourself into the forefront of this very early trying to play saviour to someone who very questionably doesn't want it.

The way you explain his families gratitude towards you made me uncomfortable, you seemed to revel in that role. Like some long suffering martyr except you've no real ties to him whatsoever and it's a bit weird.

It's about the most obvious case of walk away and forget about it. And perhaps seek some therapy about what it was that attracted you to this mess of a man/situation.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785149#Comment_117785149

Metaphorically maybe, but not emotionally, or else you would not have started this thread.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787545#Comment_117787545

Agreed. I read the original post. Based on the tone of it, I wasn't entirely sure the OP had ended things. It reads like somebody saying the right things but not actually believing them.

Big Bag of Chips

I agree with TheadoreT above. As someone who ended up in a marriage to someone with a drink problem your post was really uncomfortable to read. I didn't start a relationship with someone with a drink problem. Although in hindsight he was always a big drinker. But it progressed to unbearable levels over many years.

In your post above you're almost excited about being involved. About the potential influence you may have had over him. I know you mention that you were probably bored during lockdown which might have contributed to ending up in the situation, something to do, but this, honestly, it's not healthy. This man was never ever going to be available to you. And with little or no connection to him at all you took it upon yourself to take him on as a project. And then play it out in a group chat setting? It all seems a bit attention seeking. Like you want people to recognise how good you are for taking him on. His family, your friends.

Now, I know addicts can be very charming. They use charm and manipulation to get what they want. But it's only ever about getting what they want. Whether that's flattery, attention, affirmation or a lift to the pub! They are good at making you feel responsible, and making you feel bad for making them feel bad.

I am particularly interested to learn from people who have been some time in recovery from alcohol dependence and can share their experience of having lashed out verbally to those closest to them without even realising they were doing so at the time and simply not having insight into how their alcoholism was affecting others.

You'll find it hard to find someone like above. Addicts who lash out know they're lashing out. They lash out at those closest to them because they know they're the only ones who'll put up with their crap. They don't care about others. They haven't the capacity to think how their alcoholism is affecting others, they purely just care about looking after their own needs. Getting more drink.

My brother-in-law lost his family, wife and two children. He blamed his wife for all his troubles. He did various stints in rehab. Apologised for everything he put her through, only to relapse before long and go back to abusing her. Attack was his only firm of defense, because he had no defence. The pull of drink and drugs was stronger than the pull of his children and he regularly chose benders over spending time with his children. He just couldn't stop.

He eventually lost his life to his addiction. He knew he was lashing out. He knew he was failing his children. He knew his alcoholism was affecting everyone around him. But he simply hadn't the control. Nobody was able to get between him and the drink. His family, friends, his children.

I think you really did see this fella as an interesting project. And even your question above shows that your curious and interested in it all. Its not interesting! Not to anyone who has lived the life. As I said above, I would never have started going out with my husband if I met him when his drinking was at its worst. Life got so unbearable for me I walked out at 10:30pm on a Sunday night bring 4 children and a bag with me.

Trust me, it's not an interesting, exciting life.

I think you need to cut off all avenues of contact with this person. That includes his family, groups you're involved in with him. And you need to try figure out why you would voluntarily put yourself in the path of someone like this. And why you would stick around waiting for him to realise that you're just what he needs to fix all his problems.

No way I I ever going to fix his problems, I know that. At least I know that now. The whole thing is I was never in my life close to a ground zero of alcoholism, I didn't realise this person was an alcoholic. He pursued me via a chat forum on the first place on a pretext of being in my neighbourhood and bringing me supplies of food in when I mentioned I happened to be in self-isolation due to being struck down with fever and the practicalities which that had caused. At the time I was isolated, and never in ordinary times would I have allowed myself to be roped in. However when I eventually started to cop on that drink was a real issue I did make the error of allowing myself on that Merry-go-round.

I was born into a family where my parents spent their lives helping others, it was my upbringing to believe that people are here for each other. Call that an unhealthy upbringing if you will.

And yes I got emotionally invested, so there you go. It's certainly far from weird for such to happen. And no, I am in general as far removed from an attention-seeking kind of person anyone could find. I didn't post here to seek attention, but maybe to get an insight or two for which I am grateful.

Big Bag of Chips

So, do you think you can cut him off completely? Cut off his family? They will want to keep you posted. They will keep you updated. If the only thing you have in common with them is him, then cutting him out should also mean loss of contact with them.

My brother-in-law was a lovely fella. Even after everything he put his wife and children through, he was still a nice fella and even had a couple of girlfriends whilst in the midst of the worst of his addiction. One of them a nice normal woman, with children of her own who had no idea what she was getting involved in. Because, at first, he showed her the best of him. Very very quickly though she started to see the uglier side of him. And like you, even though she didn't know him long, didn't know him well, she ended up sucked in and ended up with an alcoholic cocaine addict living with her and her small children. Because that's what he needed, a place to stay that wasn't a homeless hostel, and that's what she could provide.

She eventually had to call the guards to get him out of her house. One night he locked himself in her bedroom with a load of drink and drugs and was shouting abuse at her and smashing the place up.

But.... Apart from all that he was charming, and funny, and manipulative.

You just got caught. Count yourself lucky you weren't deeper involved and that you got away. But now you have to actually stay away. From anything to do with him. Otherwise you are always at risk of being sucked back in with tears and promises.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788046#Comment_117788046

His family are far from expecting me to be involved, they are far to sensible & realistic. They are maybe just sorry I got roped in if anything.

Theres no way I would think of living with this guy, I enjoy my independence in any case. There's no kids or anything involved, no drugs, and absolutely nil physical violence of any kind. It's way more subtle than that, but was not nonetheless hurtful. Before I realised alcohol and seemingly a mood disorder is really the entirety of the issues, I had thought he had a certain physical medical condition which runs in the family, so I certainly wasn't going to break off a friendship when things looked subtly tricky. Like when mental health issues rear their head, these days we are encouraged to be supportive of our friends who suffer in this fashion.

It evolved in a more subtle fashion. No fights, no malice, just very low-key and increasing absorption of my resources.

TheadoreT

You've come here looking for advise and then got a bit defensive when it wasn't what you wanted.

Your description of your parents doing anything for people is pretty trite. If we tried to right every wrong or got sucked into every sad situation we came across in life none of us would function. You're not a saint or a victim or anything here, and using goodness as a motivation is pretty transparent as bullshit. You're probably bad for him in his current state truth be told and he's certainly bad for you.

You'll need to dig a little deeper and be more honest with yourself as to the route cause of why you threw yourself front and centre of a situation that had close to 0% chance of a happy ending on any level.

Big Bag of Chips

TheadoreT, remember you're posting in Personal Issues. Calling a posters thoughts, feeling or even explanations out as "bullshit" is not acceptable.

Posters are asked to bear in mind that they are speaking to someone who may be feeling a bit delicate when posting here. Find a kinder way to express your views.

Thanks.

Big Bag of Chips

Theres no way I would think of living with this guy

I hope not, seeing as you're no longer involved with him 😉

The woman I mentioned above didn't plan on living with my brother-in-law I'm sure. She only knew him a very short time. But he could be charming and persuasive, especially when trying to get what he wanted.

Before she knew what happened he was staying overnights, eventually leading to having him removed from her home.

I really felt sorry for her. She was a genuine person, who met this handsome, funny, charismatic fella on Tinder. She couldn't possibly know what she was actually dealing with. He died a short while later and the poor woman contacted his ex wife distraught. Wondering was it her fault. If she could have done more to help. If she had not had him removed from hee house etc.

What she needed to realise was that he didn't get that bad in a few weeks. He'd lost friends, family, his wife and children, he'd lost his home, jobs, his driving licence. Dozens of people in his life had tried and failed to get him to change. She wasn't going to succeed where his own wife, children, parents, siblings and friends had repeatedly failed.

And that's what you need to remember. This man has been like this for a very long time. Many people in his life will have tried to get through to him. He will have lost relationships, friendships, family relationships and none of those things have been enough to stop him drinking up to now.

Keep away. He might recover one day. But whether he does or not is not your concern.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789342#Comment_117789342

The person I'm speaking of wouldn't have been trying to get in under my roof at all. Much more low key. I only posted here because it is all so unfamiliar to me in my life, though I know many folks here would be "battle-hardened warriors".

Big Bag of Chips

I'm not suggesting he would have moved in with you. I was using the example of my brother in law about how manipulative an addict can be. They're all different, but all fundamentally the same. They will use whoever and whatever they can to fulfill their needs. Whether that's being propped up with practical help when their life falls apart again, whether it's financial help, emotional help, or an emotional punchbag!

The end result is the same. You're seen as means to and end. They don't care about their own circumstances so they sure as hell haven't the capacity to care about someone else.

How are you feeling now? You are still speaking in the present tense about him which leads me to believe that you're not totally finished with this yet.

Tork

Thankfully I don't have the same experiences the others on this thread have had. Despite this, I too am getting an "it's not really over" vibe from your posts. I get it in a way - this guy is a bit like a puzzle that you keep coming back to again and again, hoping to finally unpick. There's part of you that keeps thinking "If only.....", isn't there?

Jequ0n

OP, looking at the final paragraph of your opening post: do you have a habit of picking up "projects"?

Some people do without realising it, and it is very easy to spot them. They test the water, and if the person bites they try to take a bit more and see if it works. Throwing in childhood trauma etc works wonders btw. You feel needed, and like you are making a difference, and it makes you feel good. You both get something out of the relationship until it tilts over.

You admit that boredom might have encouraged you to get involved, so do you think this can happen again? And would you mind if it did?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790313#Comment_117790313

Nail on head there, I think. Yes I would be a "projects" person, but have never had this kind of one tbh. Absolute Covid isolation and utter boredom we're the cue for it to happen. I'm untangling here in my own mind just how it happened.

Big Bag of Chips

Be honest, are you drawn back to him?

If he contacted you, upset. Begging you to come to him because he has nobody else and nobody cares about him. He's lost everybody. He's messed everything up. His life is a mess and it's all his fault. He doesn't know what to do. He knows he can't keep going on like this. He's so sorry for all the things he's said and done. He's just so messed up and knows he needs help. He's afraid of what he might do if he's on his own.

Would you go to him?

I wouldn't be going to him, by virtue of geography, lol, as well as everything else. I very much doubt he'll be making contact, he has a certain amount of "embarrassment", and has cut himself off from mutual friends too.

I think I've spent enough time discussing the individual and situation on this forum. I have other concerns to think about atm 🙂 and thank everyone for their insights.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790448#Comment_117790448

What have you gotten out of previous projects if I may ask? Since you mention boredom you are aware that the relationship filled a need or void, so maybe it would be beneficial if you thought about what you gained from it. There is no need to answer, maybe just think about it for yourself.

I am fully aware that I use people for my own needs, but I find that most people refuse to consider that they are doing things partially for self-gratification, even though it seems to be natural.

Jeff2

Catmaniac I'm sure you know many on this site know you're a sound good person and that's probably cought you out by a manipulater.

I'v had it happen and let a person live with me but they got class A drugs delivered to my home and were using.

All has been said in this thread but its probably very informative to outer people for future reference.

Take of youself.

YellowLead

OP you said in your first post that you might have a tendency to lend yourself more easily to co-dependent situations.

Have a think about why - is there some part of you that struggles with self esteem and you feel like broken people who needs fixing are the best dating situation for you? Or what is that co-dependency from your side all about?

qwerty13

I had been going to say that your initial post made me think that you almost enjoyed this situation - the drama of it. But I see that I’m wrong about that. I think it maybe feels good to you to feel ‘needed’ - and that even if you logically know that this situation is no good for you, you got something out of it (that’s not meant in a nasty way).

Did you never have a situation like this in your life before? Is attempting to ‘fix’ someone a scenario that you've been in before? Or have you had any relationship in your life where you were constantly running around after someone else, looking after their needs? I’m asking because it feels to me like you went from zero to 100 very quickly with this guy - like you were behaving with him in a way that you were used to responding in that manner. I’m not sure that many people would have allowed themselves to be dragged in so quickly and so thoroughly. I think that’s worth considering why you allowed this to happen - with a relative stranger.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117791226#Comment_117791226

No, I didn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790792#Comment_117790792

I think most people enjoy feeling needed, I like feeling needed. Never have been in any situation like this before. And don't intend to ever again. So that's that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790675#Comment_117790675

Thanks Jeff!

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793369#Comment_117793369

I think most people enjoy being wanted, but not necessarily needed. That’s my take on it anyway!

I think if most people meet somebody who seems very needy in a dating scenario they run the other way. Which is why I was wondering what the pull was on your part - you enjoy that feeling that somebody is relying on you. Which can be troublesome as then it’s hard for both parties when things end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793803#Comment_117793803

No I really don't want *anyone* relying on me, believe me.

HildaOgdenx

There was an AMA by a poster a few years ago, who had been through rehab, which might be helpful to read. It was very honest and insightful on the part of the OP, in my opinion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058018574/now-yere-talking-to-someone-who-has-been-through-rehab/p1