Boosters

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842992#Comment_117842992

How?

What's crashing a car go to do with a virus?

No one is immune from crashing a car and surviving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843000#Comment_117843000

It's a perfectly logical analogy. The body of a car is the body's natural immune system, a seatbelt is a vaccine.

It must be a pretty good analogy if you're avoiding answering the question so much.

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842999#Comment_117842999

Only a minority of people that are not old get an annual vaccine every single year of lives

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843015#Comment_117843015

What's an airbag? A booster :)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843030#Comment_117843030

A car has multiple ways of protecting you, which is irrelevant. Ignore airbags, what is your answer? Or what way would you like to avoid the question this time?

Black Swan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806960#Comment_117806960

Would you take JNJ? It had been paused last March for 18 problematic and serious side effects out of 3 million. Now resumed with millions of doses since. It is not mRNA.

Historically, vaccines take about 4 to 5 years to receive FDA approval. So yes, there is reason to be cautious. Then again, given the short to mid-term data after millions of doses have been administered, it appears that the benefits far outweigh the potential problems.

If a population of millions continue to avoid the vaccines, like what is occurring now across the pond, this increases the likelihood of the emergence of variations (delta, etc). Furthermore, current data suggests that breakthrough cases have significantly fewer hospitalizations and deaths than the unvaccinated.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843019#Comment_117843019

We administer about half a million flu vaccines every single year, a lot more last year. Uptake varies across the age groups, but it is not just targeted at the older groups, vaccines are most effective when you inoculate the spreaders of the disease (healthy immune system makes it hard to spread) rather than just those at risk (weaker immune system means they can still be vulnerable after the vaccine as some people are only finding out now).

Every child gets vaccinated, they get multiple vaccines each year for the first few years of their life.

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843048#Comment_117843048

Your answered your own question there and proved the setbelt analogy is silly

An immune system as you call it, has multiple ways of protecting you and some people have great immune systems and don't need a vaccine for protection, most of them are asymptomatic and don't get sick from covid.

While none of them have protection from a head on collison in a 1500kg metal shell, so they need a seatbelt and airbags etc

The answer

What for it

Is alot of people don't need a vaccine ( asymptomatic ) which was about 80% of cases pre-vaccine's

So a seat belt isn't a vaccine, not even comparable, you need a seat belt to be fair or your dead in a high speed collison, most people will be perfectly fine without a vaccine for covid. We had to use coercion techniques to get them vaccinated in the first place, it wasn't the threat of covid

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843088#Comment_117843088

I think you're missing that you don't know your personal risk to SARS-COV2 until you get it (and hopefully get a low viral load) and also that the risk of the vaccines (including boosters) is orders of magnitude lower than the risk from COVID itself.

No one worries about getting their annual flu shot, the SARS-COV2 vaccines will be similar (once people stop being afraid of flying spike proteins and Facebook starts banning the misinformation like has happened on reddit).

Black Swan

Added to this, current data suggests that there have been a significant number of patients experiencing long term affects from catching COVID.

Although only anecdotal, a friend and mod on boards continues to experience “brain fog” (common name). See Fathom’s thread in our Psychology forum. Personally observing these affects, along with reading reports of such affects suggests to me that getting vaccinated, as well as taking boosters when recommended by my university employer will be my continued course. Of course it is wise to consult with your GP before pursuing any medical treatments.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843088#Comment_117843088

No, my analogy is not silly. Your avoidance of a very basic question is silly.

A seatbelt gives you added protection in an accident. A vaccine gives you added protection when injected.

A seatbelt can occasionally do more than good in an accident. A vaccine can occasionally do more harm than good when injected.

Someone in a car can be severely injured in an accident because someone in the back seat was not wearing a seatbelt and collided with them. The more people wearing seatbelts, the more everyone is protected, as with vaccines.

Older people are more at risk of severe injuries in car accidents than younger people, no matter how minor the accident is. However, that does not mean older people only should wear seatbelts, based on what I said above. The "point" you think you have made is not a point at all. We are not wearing seatbelts only to protect us from head on collisions as you incorrectly imply.

It is a perfectly sensible analogy, and your constant avoidance of answering my simple question clearly indicates that you yourself are aware that your opinions about vaccines are non-sensical and nothing but drivel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843125#Comment_117843125

The number of people in the UK experiencing self-reported long Covid that has lasted for at least a year has risen.

The estimate for people in private households in the UK increased to 384,000 from 380,000 a month earlier.

The new statistics come as research suggested being double-jabbed almost halves the likelihood of long Covid in adults who get coronavirus, cutting the chances by 49 per cent.

Fatigue was the most common symptom (experienced by 58 per cent of those with self-reported long Covid), followed by shortness of breath (42 per cent), muscle ache (32 per cent) and difficulty concentrating (31 per cent).

Rise in UK number reporting long Covid lasting at least a year | BreakingNews.ie

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/rise-in-number-reporting-long-covid-lasting-for-at-least-a-year-1179171.html

The new figures come as research suggested being double-jabbed almost halves the likelihood of long Covid in adults

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843135#Comment_117843135

How can a vaccine give added protection to someone that's immune?

No one is immune from a car crash

People are immune from Covid

See the difference?

Your seat belt ananolgy is not comparable

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843123#Comment_117843123

Untrue

We know personal risks

Calculator here will tell you your risk

https://qcovid.org/

If your under 30, no comorbidities, a healthy weight, live a healthy lifestyle your at very little risk

COVID associated death 0.0005% 1 in 2000000

COVID associated hospital admission 0.0161% 1 in 62110

That's my personal risk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843182#Comment_117843182

No, it is very comparable.

If you have five healthy people in a severe car accident and none of which are wearing seatbelts, four of them may have severe injuries or worse, whereas one may walk away with barely a scratch. That is the "immune" person.

If you have five healthy people in a severe car accident but all are wearing seatbelts, one of them may have severe injuries or worse and the rest will walk away with barely a scratch.

Thank you for highlighting another way in which my analogy works.

I would highly recommend that you look up the difference between an innate immune response and an adaptive immune response as well as the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission as it's quite clear from your posts that you don't know what you're talking about.

Black Swan

Unfortunately scientific measures to mitigate COVID have been politically weaponized across the pond. Fear of vaccinations and now boosters continues to be spread by social media and politicians that profit from spreading this fear.

Simple masking that tends to reduce the spread of many airborne diseases (COVID, flu, etc) has become weaponized as an expression of personal freedom among Trumpsters and many Republicans. Trump refused to wear a mask during the first 4 months of Covid in USA. This attitude toward such simple approaches probably has affected vaccination rates and the discussions about boosters across the pond. Trump had received boos at a recent political rally for mentioning Covid mitigation.

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843242#Comment_117843242

Seat belts are good for everyone, no risks

Vaccines aren't good for everyone, have risks

I don't know how I can make it anymore simple than that :(

Look the UK recommended not to administer vaccines to 12-15 years olds, the risk reward wasn't there, no benefit to them kids

They don't need them, but they need seatbelts, the UK didn't say to 12-15 years olds to not wear them.

Seat belts = essential

Vaccines = non essential

Get it now?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843283#Comment_117843283

Seat belts are good for everyone, no risks

I have explained in many of my posts that that's not true. Are you absorbing anything that has been posted by anyone at all?

You have also made a completely false statement. The UK were not against vaccinating 12-15 year olds because the risk reward wasn't there. The risk reward is there but it's only a "marginal gain" in their view. In my analogy, that would be similar to putting seatbelts on Dublin busses. Sure, they may occasionally crash but it's very rare and even when it happens they're typically small crashes. Some bus companies, on other hand, believe seat belts are worth it and put them on their busses.

Also, are you a 12-15 year old? It doesn't seem to be relevant at all to our discussion, you seem to be clutching at any straw you can find to avoid answering my very basic question.

godzilla1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843347#Comment_117843347

Look man seat belts are compulsory, vaccines are not

End of discussion

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843212#Comment_117843212

You know the chances of being at risk, but you don't know if you'll be the unlucky one as it's down to your biology and immune system something which you can't really affect too much.

It's not like out of a hundred people a different person might get severe disease each time, those that are susceptible will get severe disease each time, there's no lottery element to it, the numbers are pre-determined.

(I might as well be talking to the wind though as I doubt this will be understood properly).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843384#Comment_117843384

If by end of discussion you mean you've given up, then yes. You've made lots of hypothetical posts about needing boosters for years and years and lots of other "what if" scenarios but when someone does the same, you say "dude that's just hypothetical lol, end of discussion".

Actually no, that's not what you did. What you instead did was accept the hypothetical situation and instead attempted to explain why my analogy in this hypothetical situation was a bad one. Then, when you realised my analogy wasn't a bad one, you instead resorted to "lol it's just hypothetical" rather than actually considering that your point of view might be the wrong one.

Again, I will ask you, if seat belts were not compulsory, would you wear one?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/02/vaccine-booster-shots-could-help-reduce-spread-of-covid-cases

Booster data coming from UK next week.

This will be used for a large basis of our booster regime.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843519#Comment_117843519

" Prof Neil Ferguson suggested that even if evidence did not yet show waning protection in the double-vaccinated against serious illness and death, booster shots could help reduce the spread of cases. "

No need to wait till next week, when that fu##er makes a prediction all you have to do is do the total opposite of what he says. 🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843614#Comment_117843614

They will want to use the data.

Not necessarily follow what UK is doing.

Great bit of research they are doing on boosters. doses, gaps, half doses, 6-7 different types in all different combinations.

A rich bit of research that we would be unable to do.

UK have not given us much during covid only plenty of cases, but their data for the last year has been good.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843637#Comment_117843637

Why is Ireland unable to do something ?

brickster69

Not another one. This Delta has really messed things up with some of these vaccines.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1433172826819813376

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843681#Comment_117843681

They have around 70 million.

We have 5 million.

They have the numbers and economies of scale, we dont.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843681#Comment_117843681

Choosing not to is not the same thing. The science on this is scant and evolving, but we will be doing certain groups. However, wrapping up the main programme first is the best approach.

Lumen

Israel has only twice our population and much better public data.

Population size is no excuse.

That said, I'm not sure the Russians are dumb enough to hack the Israeli health service.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117845411#Comment_117845411

This is an illogical analogy and your childish attitude is persuasive to nobody

You can gladly explain why it was an illogical analogy considering the person I was replying to couldn't. You can also point out where I have been childish, and I will gladly respond by pointing out how the other poster was instead the childish one and ask you why you have not instead called out that poster.

Embarrassing

Yes, it is indeed embarrassing that the poster ran away when they realised they argument made no sense instead of admitting, at least to themselves, that their logic was incorrect.

Don't waste your time engaging with Aristotle, Astrofool, and Glasso.

Suggesting that people shouldn't engage with me on this topic when you are fully aware that I have published papers in medicine says a lot about the type of people you would prefer posters engage with.