Boosters

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806960#Comment_117806960

The FDA have approved it in full, only a matter of time when it's done here. Will you still refuse the mRNA then when it's fully approved here, or are you still going to say it's not safe?

ohnohedidnt

The approval was under pressure from the Biden admistration. Nothing about how these vaccines got approved sits well with me.

Even when it's approved here I won't trust it because there's just so much political pressure. I don't trust that negative data would be correctly reported because politically it would be a nightmare, and the vaccine would still be for the greater good. Like with the masks, we were lied to, that they actually cause covid to spread more and not to buy them, then when the greater good was satisfied (hospitals stocked), masks became mandatory because that was the greater good then. Data about deaths (age, weight, co-morbidities) was concealed because NPHET didn't want to give us all the facts in case we got "the wrong idea", with the facts.

I'm not saying it's not safe at all, people who want it should absolutely get it. I might even get it myself in a year in the unlikely event I still haven't had covid. If I was old or fat I'd take it today.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806960#Comment_117806960

Well you'll be glad to know that the Pfizer vaccine is now FDA approved. You can now take it without the above concerns or choose to move the goalposts, up to you!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807009#Comment_117807009

why is there no push for people to improve their lifestyle?

Many answers to that off the top of my head.

• There is already. Almost everyone knows that lifestyle choices like e.g. obesity and smoking greatly increase the chances of having a severe infection because it's often highlighted. We already have a sugar tax, restrictions on when you can buy alcohol, minimum pricing on alcohol, restrictions on alcohol/cigarette advertising, warnings on cigarette packs, not displaying cigarettes in shops, being one of the first countries to ban smoking in public places etc. We actually do quite well in that regard in my opinion.
• Because it's a secondary response rather than a direct response. We know that having the overwhelming majority of adults being vaccinated can and has lead to restrictions being lifted. It's doubtful if the same would be the case if we simply advertised improving lifestyles more than we currently do.
• There are many more people with bad lifestyle choices than there are people selfishly refusing a vaccine.
• Severe infections happen to healthy people.
• The overwhelming majority of people who are obese, chronic smokers etc. are fully aware that it's bad for their health, with or without Covid. Advertising that fact isn't going to tell them anything they don't already know, it will only reduce the number of people making those bad lifestyle choices in future generations (which is already the case).

And that's not including things like comparing transmission rates of healthy unvaccinated people to unhealthy vaccinated people etc.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807253#Comment_117807253

See above reply to my post.

He thinks it's political, Biden in US with FDA, Irish government here. No talking to some. Would always find some excuse. Leave him at it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807351#Comment_117807351

Ah I didn't realise he was a conspiracy theorist, thank for pointing it out. 😃

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807189#Comment_117807189

I hope you'll never grow old, or 'fat'.(not a nice term for those who are obese due to medications) And let's hope that you won't allow new treatments to be wasted on you if in ICU for any reason.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807343#Comment_117807343

Then maybe the derision that non vaccinated people face should be directed at the unhealthy that have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable like the flu shot. Not that I would condone that as I believe everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to their body but I would find it hard listening to someone that is obese giving out about people not getting vaccinated when in all other areas of their life they don't care about their health.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807560#Comment_117807560

the unhealthy that have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable

1) What percentage of non-vulnerable people need to be considered healthy for the ICU not to become overwhelmed if non-vulnerable people were not vaccinated? How did you determine this percentage?

2) What percentage of non-vulnerable people are currently considered healthy? How did you determine this percentage?

3) Do you believe that a government drive to encourage a healthy lifestyle can increase the percentage of 2) to the percentage of 1)? How long do you believe that would take? How did you determine this number?

4) How do you plan on circumventing an overwhelmed ICU in the meantime?

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807606#Comment_117807606

I didn't state any percentages or numbers but it's widely accepted the healthier you are the less likely you going to get a severe case. Also I don't believe the numbers are reported in a transparent way stating how many patients in ICU have comorbidities. If there was more transparency on those numbers then a rough estimate of the above percentages could be made and a risk analysis conducted based on that.

Based on how the population has gone along with everything the government has said I do believe that if they had promoted a healthy lifestyle it would have been picked up by people. I'm not saying all people but there was an opportunity lost here and not just for the covid response but for the betterment of Irish society as a whole. We're over 18 months with Covid on the scene, a lot of people could have improved their health considerably in that time which would then have had a positive effect on the Covid numbers and in general hospital admissions.

Do you think that the solution here long term is boosters for the foreseeable future? I don't. I can see the first booster being taken up in good numbers but as time passes less and less will bother, just like the flu jab.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807681#Comment_117807681

But you have stated that the "unhealthy have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable". You cannot make that assertion if you don't know the answers to the questions that I asked. The existence of unhealthy people, just like the existence of selfish people not being vaccinated, may mean Covid is around for longer, if not indefinitely, but you cannot conclude that their existence alone is necessitating the need for healthy people to be vaccinated.

Do you think that the solution here long term is boosters for the foreseeable future? I don't. I can see the first booster being taken up in good numbers but as time passes less and less will bother, just like the flu jab.

If by foreseeable future you mean over the next few years, then yes.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807731#Comment_117807731

I don't think anyone can answers the questions you have asked as the information is not being shared by the authorities as I pointed out but it is widely accepted that the majority of people dying from Covid have comorbidities or are at an advanced age. Of course there are the exceptions of perfectly healthy people dying of Covid but if people are going to rely on these exceptions as a reason to pressure people into getting vaccines then they should also consider the exceptions when there is an adverse reaction or a death due to a Covid vaccine.

You referenced non vaccinated people as selfish, if that's the case I would label obese people and smokers as selfish too and not just over Covid. Their life choices costs the taxpayers a considerable amount money each year regardless if Covid is around or not. They have cost the public more money than unvaccinated will. I actually don't understand this approach anymore, the vaccine is more of a prophylactic now. Doesn't prevent you getting it or spreading it, it protects the taker from a severe reaction that's all. Something that can be achieved just as well by being a healthy person.

I think the reason they don't share it is due to what is widely reported that a significant percentage of those dying have multiple comorbidities. Although this isn't widely reported on within the media for some reason. Healthier people would then be able to make up their own mind whether to get the vaccine and the uptake wouldn't be where it is.

I think the first booster will not be as widely taken as the initial vaccine and after that it will drop off a cliff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807805#Comment_117807805

I don't think anyone can answers the questions you have asked as the information is not being shared by the authorities as I pointed out but it is widely accepted that the majority of people dying from Covid have comorbidities or are at an advanced age. Of course there are the exceptions of perfectly healthy people dying of Covid but if people are going to rely on these exceptions as a reason to pressure people into getting vaccines then they should also consider the exceptions when there is an adverse reaction or a death due to a Covid vaccine.

The majority of people who end up hospitalised or in ICU do not die.

You referenced non vaccinated people as selfish, if that's the case I would label obese people and smokers as selfish too

Well, smoking (and arguably sugar) is an addition. Most smokers want to quit, I wouldn't put them in the same category as those refusing vaccines.

Doesn't prevent you getting it or spreading it

What are you referring to exactly?

Their life choices costs the taxpayers a considerable amount money each year regardless if Covid is around or not. They have cost the public more money than unvaccinated will.

I mean that's true about lots of groups that you haven't mentioned too.

I think the first booster will not be as widely taken as the initial vaccine and after that it will drop off a cliff.

If many employers in Ireland do what has been introduced by some American US companies and give vaccinated people more paid sick leave and reduce the cost of their healthcare plan then even the selfish will start taking whatever vaccine they can get.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805311#Comment_117805311

My vaccination centre kept everyone 2 metres apart from the front door to the exit. I was closer to people in the supermarket on the way home.

Username2017

How bout this one

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808488#Comment_117808488

Any of your own opinion, or are you reduced to meme dumping?

Anyway, the GOP supporting Americans would be rushing from pharmacy getting jabbed if it meant a 10% saving on hot dogs.

trump got jabbed, did you?

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807857#Comment_117807857

Apologies, I don't know how to multiple quote so I'll just respond paragraph per point.

I never said that the majority of people in ICU die although the majority that end up either dying or in ICU have under lying health problems.

Smoking may be an addiction but if you really want to give up you can, I did and people do every day. Same with diet, people make the choice to lead healthier lives and get through the initial sugar withdrawals. It's just an unfortunate fact that most people don't have the real desire or will power to do so however I don't see that as an excuse. Everyone should be responsible for their decisions whether it's smoking or taking a vaccine.

The vaccine doesn't prevent catching or spreading Covid, it reduces the severity of the symptoms but that's not across the board either.

I understand your point but we're speaking about Covid and health. This is bigger than a health emergency due to the economic damage the concerns of the effects it will have on peoples mental health.

I have never been given sick days and I've never had a healthcare plan provided by an employer in Ireland either so I'm not sure how relevant that is for the majority of people working in Ireland. Maybe for the public sector and the likes of google?

Have you considered that the people that haven't been vaccinated are maybe waiting for the dust to settle before getting jabbed? I've read articles where they have said if you have previously contracted covid one shot maybe enough, if your immunocompromised then it could be 3 shots, in the last week or two it's come out that you lose the antibodies from the vaccine after 8 months or 3 months if your immunocompromised. People have said on this thread if they knew it was going to be a like a flu shot with boosters they wouldn't have taken the vaccine. AstraZeneca isn't accepted in certain places like New York. The doctors are saying you can mix shots while the US is saying it won't accept people with different shots. So it's not as clear cut as some would have you believe.

I'm all for the science but there is so much that is unknown about the virus and the efficacy of the vaccine that I can understand why some people are hesitant to get the vaccine. I'm actually surprised so many got it with so many unknowns but that's down mostly to the allure of the pub in my opinion.

Calling people selfish for not taking a vaccine for a virus that's surrounded with so many unknowns is unhelpful I believe and all it does is create division rather than promote discussion and education on the topic as it causes both sides to dig in and get entrenched but that's modern discourse.

Username2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808754#Comment_117808754

The GOP are mostly hard working , not sucking off the government so this wouldn’t entice them! I don’t care who got jabbed and who didn’t , it’s non of my business. I take care of my own body , been working around people 6 days a week for 16 months without catching a cold , I think I got this. Since me getting vaccinated or not makes zero difference to anyone around me then what’s the point. 99.8%.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Regarding the WHO guidance, a compromise seems to be the best solution IMHO:

Booster shots only for the most vulnerable for now - immunocompromised, health care workers etc.

This means, a relatively small amount of vaccine is used for booster shots, - statistically insignificant for focussing on vaccination in other countries with low vaccination rates.

It's a global pandemic, so looking at the bigger picture seems sensible.

It also means waiting with booster shots for the general public until we have better data that show if they are actually necessary, and what exactly the right time span from 2nd vaccination to booster should be. Also, more time to customise boosters for new emerging variants (which is comparatively simple, once there is a working vaccine - not like vaccine development has to start from scratch).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808754#Comment_117808754

Herpaderp I’m smert.

Nom **** nom.

https://youtu.be/tSrklAa0qp0

Username2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807189#Comment_117807189

Yesss, I agree with all of this!

Boosters for vaccines are common to gain a level of sustained immunity

MMR at 12 months and Junior infants

6 in 1 at 2, 4 and 6 months

Men B at 2 4 and 12 months

PCV at 2 6 and 13 months

Men C at 6 and 13 months

Tetanus generally needs a booster after 10 years

Hep A is 2doses 6 months apart however most who travel don’t go back for the second and need booster if not doubled within the year

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808772#Comment_117808772

Smoking may be an addiction but if you really want to give up you can, I did and people do every day.

That's a very big generalisation. Just because you managed it doesn't mean it's just as difficult for every smoker to quit. Addictions and the brain are complicated things.

Anyway, the point is that comparing addictions to people who are anti-vaxx (well, pro-Covid is my preferred term) is a bit silly. Willpower has nothing to do with taking a vaccine.

The vaccine doesn't prevent catching or spreading Covid, it reduces the severity of the symptoms but that's not across the board either.

Well, that's blatantly not true.

Have you considered that the people that haven't been vaccinated are maybe waiting for the dust to settle before getting jabbed?

Not at all. I've never met anyone who had said "sure I'll take it next year when I've noticed that everyone hasn't turned into zombies". The majority are not taking it due to ignorance or selfishness from what I've seen and read.

I'm all for the science but there is so much that is unknown about the virus and the efficacy of the vaccine that I can understand why some people are hesitant to get the vaccine.

Nothing unknown about the vaccine at all. Based on what it is, it doesn't make sense for there to be any side effects from an mRNA vaccine after 6-8 weeks. Everything is known about that vaccine type, and the data shows that it's much more likely you will get ill or worse without a vaccine than with one.

Calling people selfish for not taking a vaccine for a virus that's surrounded with so many unknowns is unhelpful I believe and all it does is create division rather than promote discussion and education on the topic as it causes both sides to dig in and get entrenched but that's modern discourse.

Those people who are not getting vaccines because they are getting their information about them from Facebook etc. rather than credible sources are not going to suddenly do a 180 if we place nice. The only recourse for such people is incentives to take it or deterrents to not take it.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807189#Comment_117807189

"Even when it's approved here"?

It is approved here.

But look, this post screams conspiracy theorist. There will be no convincing you, ever. You are not well.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808851#Comment_117808851

So you don't like trump anymore? He got jabbed and told his supporters to get jabbed, he wasn't a little 'fraidy cat like some, would you not follow him in this behavior?

Username2017

You don’t really know much about trump supporters do you ? How does a 75 yr old obese man have anything to do with what I put in my body?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809950#Comment_117809950

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809666#Comment_117809666

We still need to identify where the immediate need is for boosters first. The protocols here are for established general health programmes.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117810227#Comment_117810227

So you disagree with him? I'm trying to see if you're being hypocritical by criticizing Biden when both the development and approval for vaccines came under trump and he also came out recently and told his supporters to go and get vaccinated due to the runaway pandemic if majority GOP voting areas of America.

I mean, it's easy to post memes criticizing political leaders, but you're shying away from following the advice of the opponents as well, leaving you out on your own among the tinfoil hat wearers and conspiracy theorists, I mean, if that's what you are, fine, but it would be interesting to know the reason behind the meme posting that seem aligned with a trump follower.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117811370#Comment_117811370

Well seen as those most at risk from dying were jabbed first and those who were jabbed first were given Pfizer, then it sounds a good idea giving a booster to those first. Those most at risk will be 7 months in from receiving the second dose now.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117811453#Comment_117811453

There are certain sectors they will definitely do, care homes and some front line HCWs. After that I don't think we'll see it as a widespread approach this winter but they don't seem to have a clear plan on it just yet. Boosters for everyone over 7 months without exception strikes me as quite a waste of vaccines.