Abortion in America

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841197#Comment_117841197

Did the people of Texas vote for this?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841508#Comment_117841508

Didn't they vote for the people that voted for this?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840496#Comment_117840496

Consent is too strong a word, I would say that a husband should at least have the right to know that a pregnancy exists and that a termination is planned.

I can't imagine too many women being best pleased if their husbands got a vasectomy behind their wive's backs and never told them, particularly if the woman wanted to have children.

In the case where a woman is having an abortion on a pregnancy that the husband wasn't involved in, well marriage probably wasn't the right choice for that woman to begin with.

The types of scenarios where the abusive controlling husband uses his wife's reproductive system as a means of controlling her are few and far between. In a healthy loving relationship the partner of the pregnant woman should be aware of her intention to have a termination. I've heard stories from men I know who were left out of the loop and it had devastating consequences for them as they would have loved to have had kids but the woman just didn't want to.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842209#Comment_117842209

Well, what's the alternative in that scenario then? Just make the woman have the baby?

Relationships, or getting relationships to work, are often about compromises. But you can't compromise on having a baby. You can't have half a baby. Either both want a baby or both don't want a baby. Having one half of a couple wanting a baby and the other half not wanting is never going to work. Trying to enforce one half's wishes on the other half is a recipe for disaster.

In these cases, I'd have to side with the one that is going to actually be pregnant and have the baby. Her wishes should always supersede the men's.

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839497#Comment_117839497

Yeah, but, you know...God.

Or something.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839020#Comment_117839020

And yet you had to comment. Many people have an interest in US politics. Many Irish people, including myself, live there. I know of at least a few Americans who are on Boards.

If you don't comment on a thread, no one is going to knock on your door and ask you where are you.

Edited to add: I see you've posted again trying to shut down the discussion. You're coming across as someone who doesn't want a light shone on the topic for some reason. Do you want to discuss that?

Tell me how

One of the most jaw dropping thing for me (outside of the 6 week cutoff, the no accounting for having been raped, the Orwellian nature of getting the public to enforce it) is that this is introduced, and announcements made about by some such as Greg Abbott at the same time that the very same people are introducing legislation to prevent the introductions of mask mandates and their argument for doing so is in order to preserve bodily autonomy.

The hypocrisy of that position is stunning.

nolivesmatter

Obviously consent from the partner gives too much control to that partner. But as previously mentioned above they should have a right to know. There's probably not much or anything that can be done to enforce that right or even penalize if the right is infringed (and of course there's cases where you wouldn't want to), but at least it could be there as point of moral principle. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842209#Comment_117842209

I agree it should be a decision made jointly where possible, but ultimately it has to come down to the person carrying the pregnancy.

A law like this would make a woman less inclined to discuss it with her partner - if there is an acrimonious split, he can report her for up to three years after the fact.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842320#Comment_117842320

It has happened that women have been married, gotten pregnant, didn't want the kid but agreed to have the child and let the father raise them and leave the relationship. I have no problem with a woman's bodily autonomy but abortion isn't the only possible solution here, although it is the most divisive and final.

Ultimately you shouldn't be getting into a marriage when your desire for having children isn't aligned. There is more to these situations than "I'm pro choice therefore abortion is the only solution every time or you're being misogynistic".

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842526#Comment_117842526

I'm not trying to shut down discussion, but simply asking the OP what he's trying to achieve here. I'm asking why should we care about abortion law in Texas, no more than why Texans should care about our laws?

Texans voted for the law makers that made these laws. What right do we have to tell them how they choose to govern themselves?

I was pissed when we had evangelicals and blow-ins interfering in our debate. Let them decide for themselves.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839079#Comment_117839079

I don't think he's trying to stop discussion.

Because Americans speak English and appear in the media we tend to forget that areas like Texas are faraway places of which we (most of us) know little.

I saw a headline in an Irish web site about this story this morning, 'The Texas abortion law proves we still have far to go for women's autonomy'

But there is no 'we' encompassing Irish people and Texans.

osarusan

I can understand the argument that it can be devastating for a man and potential father to find his wife/partner has had an abortion. But unless the man is going to have some power over the decision to have/not have an abortion (which would be a horrible decision), I'm not really sure how it helps to let him know about it at all.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842735#Comment_117842735

People are talking shyte on a messageboard, that's all, in this or any other thread. It won't achieve anything, just like all the other threads. You know this as well as anybody.

Why don't you just do what I do with the, say, 95% of threads in CA that I've no interest in posting in, and just ignore them.

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842752#Comment_117842752

If he thinks his partner is pregnant when do you tell him she isn't? And if you're going to tell him why not just tell him before? Would just seem like the more courteous way to go about things.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842735#Comment_117842735

Because not everything happens in isolation, events trigger discussions, movements, trends. I would suggest a significant proportion of Irish legislation and practices was introduced to reflect comparative laws in the UK. Understandable given our closeness and the US and Ireland have much vaunted close relationship going back a long way.

I would argue that a lot of the rhetoric we've seen over the last 18 months in Ireland from anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers is directly lifted from the playbook of similar groups in the US (standing in a protest wrapped in the flag with a copy of the constitution in your hand for example).

As a direct consequence of the last President of the US (I would argue anyway) a similar character with a similar strategy appeared on the Irish political scene. Thankfully he didn't get far. It is worth paying attention what is going on in locations which do influence us, if not directly, obviously or immediately or next thing you'll be looking around wondering HTF did that happen? And it doesn't have to be a direct copy of the same rule to appear in Ireland for this to be the case.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842571#Comment_117842571

The sort of idiot who supports this is the same sort of sorry ignorant idiot who would be totally aghast at the idea of the State supporting young children to ensure that all young children get an equal opportunity in life.

They don't want you to abort your unwanted pregnancy but if you dare ask or need help supporting your child after it's born they will usually answer with some variant of well you should of thought about that before having children.

Anyone arguing in support of this is a sick ignorant idiot and should be treated as such.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842876#Comment_117842876

the same people are also generally opposed to the provision of sex education and contraception to young people.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842876#Comment_117842876

Reminds me of this

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842768#Comment_117842768

We're not talking about 'courtesy', we're talking about the law.

If I understand the posts correctly, some poeple think that a married man at least, should have the right to know if his partner is pregnant.

Now, most of the time, this isn't an issue as the woman will tell him anyway (happily or not), so it only really becomes an issue when she doesn't want to tell him. In those situations, I'm wondering what him having the legal right to know would actually achieve, or what the outcomes would be, as he'd have no power to influence her decision either way.

Many posters have said on boards over the years that the man should have some rights, some say, when it comes to pregnancies, but those rights, or what that say is, never really gets made clear. Short of the man having the power to either enforce or prevent an abortion, I'm not sure what those rights, or that 'say' can be.

The possibility of becoming pregnant is a biological inequality which can never be balanced out.

Overheal

The fact that the law is supposed to be enforced by private individuals is - novel.

So it's not the AG's office enforcing this law, or anything. No, the law is set up so private parties, eg. your mom, your neighbor, your coworker has to go through the hassle of suing you themselves for an abortion, or an abortion provider, etc. and then at the end of the process they would, ostensibly, be awarded $10k per abortion plus legal fees.

Doesn't sound like they thought this out, according to the right leaning WSJ even, which argued the precedent is atrocious: that sure, California could now deputize private citizens to sue people for hate speech, get bounties and legal fees paid,etc. Micro aggression? $10k please. Post fake news on facebook? I'm suing you now, with Vermont's new anti-fake news bounty law [example]. $10k please. Roll coal in your pickup truck? Pay me $10k per instance, an assault on the environment! It takes away the requirement of a plaintiff to be an injured party, or an officer of the court, and pays them for winning in litigation, which just requires them to prove an offense happened. #ConservativesAccidentallyBeingSocialist

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-abortion-law-blunder-supreme-court-samuel-alito-john-roberts-whole-womans-health-11630619631

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842824#Comment_117842824

I actually agree with your middle paragraph and that's the central reason why debating this issue here is not only pointless but poisonous. This thread was created by our very own culture warrior for the purposes of creating division, re-stoking a debate that is settled here. Maybe activists miss the battle? It sure seems like it, that they forgot they won.

There is far to much of this culture war bollocks being posted on Irish sites about what are fundamentally American social problems that are irrelevant for us. If you don't want it to impact us, you don't talk about laws in Texas like they are our problem.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842571#Comment_117842571

Texas, where a virus has reproductive rights but a woman does not.

One thing important to point out: This gives a green flag to the other states surrounding Texas to institute their own versions of that law (Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, maybe New Mexico.) Not so easy as to nip on over to another state by car, might turn out to be quite the trip. And, how far behind can the right-wing loony bins like Ohio, Kentucky, Florida, Dakotas be in this. It'll be an avalanche of bad legislation and enormous amounts of litigation until the USSC does something about it, or Congress does (there's a bill presented in the House : https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-speaker-pelosi-pledges-action-bill-response-texas-abortion-law-2021-09-02/

The six week cutoff is absurd, you don't know by that point, it's likely the earliest you realize things are behind schedule. This is effectively no abortion at all in Texas.

And it's massive, destructive judicial malfeasance on Texas's part, allowing neighbors to rat out other neighbors.

For amusement, this is making the rounds on Facebooger:

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843200#Comment_117843200

Who is talking about the Texas law "like it is our problem"? OP didn't mention Ireland.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843200#Comment_117843200

"This thread was created by our very own culture warrior for the purposes of creating division"

What the fùck are you on about?

It may surprise you but some of us have interests that stretch further than whatever small village you hail from.

"If you don't want it to impact us, you don't talk about laws in Texas like they are our problem."

Do you only talk about subjects that affect you directly? What exactly is it that you are afraid of that you have posted several times in the thread to try and shut down a subject that others have an interest in debating?

For someone who has no interest in the subject of the thread you're sure posting in here quite a bit.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843273#Comment_117843273

He seems to forget that not everyone posting on this site (myself included) are not Irish and indeed do not live in Ireland.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843272#Comment_117843272

I loved this one

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843200#Comment_117843200

If you want to talk about culture warriors, let's have that conversation. We seem to have a different thread here every couple days attacking liberal ideals, climate activists, equal right arguments, and the clearly culturally biased 'Wokeism' thread. Are they all valid discussions started by politically/culturally aware people, or started by culture warriors also? Very interested in an answer to that.

We've a thread on here about the multicultural experience in Sweden. And certainly before the Boards changeover to the new platform, it was a very active thread. How relevant is that discussion to Ireland?

Your argument sounds like one made by those who attack claims of far right voices in Ireland with dismissive responses that no such thing exists. To that I would say, firstly, there can be a far right in the context of Irish politics without it having to mirror what might be classified as far right elsewhere. And secondly, If we can dismiss anyone who is activating for the benefit of others as being a SJW/woke, as happens on here a lot, is it not permitted to flag views/claims which mirror rhetoric from regressives elsewhere as being right wing? Or are culture warriors only on one side of the discussion?

On the broader topic of crossing borders for talking points. Why do you think Tucker Carlson went to Hungary recently to interview Viktor Orban? And Donald Trump sent Orban a signed letter praising him for his nationalistic ideals and how the interview looked on Fox. I believe Tucker did this simply so that he and Fox could talk about their admiration for ultra-nationalist ideals through the vein of it just being about an interview with Orban. I might remind you that Hungary was where English players were roundly racially abused last night. We had another active thread on here during the Euro's lambasting the footballers for kneeling to highlight racism. Were those of us arguing the right of the footballers to protest as they were doing culture warriors also?

Political conversation, opinions, influences are a global conversation now, I'm always very wary of someone trying to stop conversation on elements which relate to this or specific topics themselves.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842912#Comment_117842912

The fact that the law is supposed to be enforced by private individuals is - novel.

It's mental is what it is. Imagine if a state introduced a similar law allowing people to sue police for inappropriate behaviour, or for owning guns? GOP's talking heads would literally explode in anger.

Itssoeasy

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised by this action in Texas. Donald trump won the presidency and a president gets to appoint Supreme Court justices and he got three opportunities(well one should have been Obama’s pick) and had explicitly said he’d pick pro life justices and he’s got three of them so the balance is tipped squarely conservative. I will say the whole leaving it to the citizens to enforce it has an old eastern blog charm to it.