Lidl: 10c for used bottles and cans [Expired]

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290894#Comment_121290894

I don't have any resistance to recycling. But why make it so complicated? Do we really need a mechanized computer controlled system for recycling?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290894#Comment_121290894

How is it improving it for me? I live 10 miles from the nearest drop off point, I already use my recycle bin to the max I can. So it will take me nearly an hour to go to drop off and scan all my recycling now and use up more diesel in the process. How is that better for the environment than what I am already doing?

crusd

Funny how many people here are of the belief that all of their recyclable goods that the carefully segregate all ends up actually being recycled.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290916#Comment_121290916

• Go to the shops and buy stuff
• Use the stuff at home, keep the empties
• Go to the shops to buy more stuff, bring the empties with you and deposit them

If anyone finds that complicated then they have bigger problems

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290924#Comment_121290924

You return them where you shop. Why you would return to deposit them when you don't need to go to the shop is beyond me but maybe you can explain that

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291004#Comment_121291004

You ever hear of delivered shopping? I rarely go to the shop.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291004#Comment_121291004

My problem is having to have a computer system to do something as simple as recycling a metal can.

It puts me in mind of this

The fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete while on the planet is surgically removed from your body weight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatory there it is vitally important to get a receipt.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291022#Comment_121291022

I'm sure you'll figure something out, its really not that complicated. Alternatively, carry on as you are

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291075#Comment_121291075

My problem is having to have a computer system to do something as simple as recycling a metal can.

A first world problem if ever there was one

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291151#Comment_121291151

I'm sure you are one of the do gooders that have everything as it is also. Carry on as you are.

green123

DaCor,

What about the fact that waste companies will put up their prices to make up for losing valuable cans and bottles?

And all the below points made by another poster?

• What about the unnecessary manufacturing of thousands of bespoke machines?
• 
  
• What about powering said machines?
• 
  
• What about having technicians drive around the country full time to repair these machines?

Even if recycle rate increases somewhat, it will not offset the inefficiency of the overall process.

It will do more harm to the environment, economy and consumers than good.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291151#Comment_121291151

When you say "carry on as you are" you are suggesting that someone should accept loosing the deposit on every can and plastic bottle they buy.

That could add up to quite a lot over time.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291549#Comment_121291549

How much is the deposit fee?

From 1 February, 2024, when you buy a drink featuring the Re-turn logo, you will be charged a small deposit  in addition to the price of the drink. The drinks containers included in the Scheme are PET plastic bottles and aluminium and steel cans between 150mls and 3 litres. A deposit of 15c will apply to containers from 150ml to 500ml inclusive and a deposit of 25c for containers over 500mls to 3 litres inclusive.

https://re-turn.ie/#:~:text=Ireland's%20new%20Deposit%20Return%20Scheme,the%20price%20of%20the%20drink.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291512#Comment_121291512

What about the fact that waste companies will put up their prices to make up for losing valuable cans and bottles?

Is this a fact? What are you basing this on? Have you seen something showing prices are going to go up as a direct cause of this or are you making assumptions? Its still going to be the waste companies emptying these machines.

What about the unnecessary manufacturing of thousands of bespoke machines?

Eggs & omelets. Its like complaining about the manufacturing process of new buses as a way of opposing the rollout of new bus routes

What about powering said machines?

What about it? Our grid is getting cleaner and greener by the day. If powering things is a massive concern to you we have much bigger fish to fry e.g. removing emissions from our grid faster.

What about having technicians drive around the country full time to repair these machines?

What about it? If you have concerns in this element, systems like this have been in operation for decades on the continent so maybe you could provide some details around how much of an issue this might be

Even if recycle rate increases somewhat, it will not offset the inefficiency of the overall process.

I disagree. Evidence from the continent shows we'll hit 95%+ rates. Our current rate is approx 60% if I recall correctly

It will do more harm to the environment, economy and consumers than good.

I disagree. You'll be hard pushed to find waste cans and bottles throw around the place where this is in operation as its valuable so people do not discard it lightly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291549#Comment_121291549

Nobody will be forced to return containers, so if you wish to forego the deposit you can do so. Whether you do or not is a personal choice. Some will value the deposit, some will not. If you don't, then yes, carry on as you are and recycle using your current method

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291569#Comment_121291569

It's Hobson's Choice.

You either comply or lose money.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291582#Comment_121291582

Which drives the increased recycling rates but which will never achieve 100% because some will value the deposit, some won't. Either way the rate of recycling increases which is a good thing

L1011

We had this exact system, but with slower, fiddlier manual returns, until the 70s and some countries never got rid of it.

Most of my beer is bought from two Irish breweries, one of which is down the road from me - a Dutch/German style crate and bottle return system for those would be ideal and massively reduce waste

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291592#Comment_121291592

Point is that if you don't do as your told you pay more.

As you say it should improve recycling rates.

It might also change consumer purchasing habits.

People might change from cans to glass bottles and from plastic bottles to Tetra cartons.

@[Deleted User]

@[Deleted User] run back to the Galway thread like a good lad, you ruined that place with your incessant repetitive posting style so please don’t ruin this sub forum too. It’s one of the few good ones left on boards

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291022#Comment_121291022

What do you go with your glass jars and bottles. I'd be fairly sure that your cans will be returned to the same place as most glass return points are in the car park of supermarkets and convenience stores

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292557#Comment_121292557

How kind of you to ask, I keep the very few of them I use to bring to a return point a few times a year. Not sure how that has anything to do with the new process being forced upon certain people who already recycle responsibly though.

Rigor Mortis

So, the point being you will now deliver your cans and bottles to prettty much the same place. Albeit it will be probably be somewhat more frequent, depending on whether you drink a lot of soft drinks or beer.

While you recycle responsibly, we have very low rates of recycling on these items compared to European levels and the quality of the material that comes through the recycling process is poor because it is contaminated with other substances making it harder, more expensive and more energy intensive to recycle back to food grade packaging.

We've kind of fooled ourselves in this country into thinking we're good at recycling. We're really not and that which good people like yourself is doing is not as effective as it needs to be. Thats why the change is being forced, cos it wont happen otherwise.

tjhook

There should be no surprise. This is what government does - apply pressure to change the public's behaviour to what it thinks it should be. As usual though, there may be unintended consequences.

In my case, I do use quite a few aluminium cans. Without exception, these go into my recycling bin. I generally choose to buy cans rather than bottles/jars, because it's handier - I don't want to be storing or carrying glass around until it's convenient to visit a bottle bank. Whereas my recycle bin is right outside my door.

With these new rules, bottles/jars will become handier. Both need to be brought somewhere but with glass there's no extra outlay at purchase time, no dealing with machines or credit vouchers. And if some of all my jars find their way into my general waste because I'm not likely to be visiting the bottle bank for the moment, so be it.

Is that better or worse? I'm not sure. I would have guessed aluminium is lighter and more efficient to manufacture/transport, and easier to recycle. But I don't know. Surely I won't be alone in my response.

Of course the obvious "all stick no carrot" response would be to start applying deposits/levies to everything. But then there'd be even more unintended consequences.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293729#Comment_121293729

The carrot in this case would be a similar one to when the plastic bag levy came in i.e cleaner streets

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293769#Comment_121293769

While I do see certain areas being repeatedly strewn with litter, I've not noticed cans being the problem. I do see the odd discarded beer can, but what I see is mostly from take-aways, cigarette butts, etc.

A report from the Litter Monitoring Body in 2020 shows that alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverage cans together constitute 2.5% of litter in Ireland, so creating additional this additional inconvenience for the public is not going to have much affect on street litter. Especially if the result is discarded bottles instead of cans. Not to mention the danger of broken glass on the streets.

ednwireland

just got a letter yesterday. bin lifts are going to cost me about 30% more next year.

ednwireland

just got a letter yesterday. bin lifts are going to cost me about 30% more next year.

podgeandrodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291559#Comment_121291559

The FAQ states that the purpose is to reduce litter. I see that with the 150ml to 500ml bottles, but I can't say I've ever noticed an issue with 2L bottles around the place.

Rigor Mortis

2l bottles make up a tiny proportion of sales compared to multipack cans and single bottle and can sales. Ireland is very diffrent to Europe in that regard.

On the earlier point about alcohol bottles making a tiny part of litter, the same is not true of soft drinks and water containers.

On the point about switching from bottles to glass, beer is one of the few areas where that will happen. DRS wont apply to bean cans, just beverages. You may have some water switching from plastic to tetra, which is a pity cos tetra is really bad in terms of the reality of how its recycled - in theory its recycled in practice its normally not and frequently landfilled or burned.

The real motivation here is not litter though, its emissions. You start recycling food grade plastic and you reduce emissions from that packaging by about 60%.

On the glass v plastic or cans. Unless the glass is reusable, which is uncommon these days, the recycled plastic is lower emission to make and transport, same is true v cans. Although, there is quite a bit of investment in can technology that will reduce the emissions associated with that.

The removal of rpet (plastic) and aluminium from bins will reduce the income for waste management companies but the industry will also be taking this as an opportunity to increase revenues while they can blame the government.

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292206#Comment_121292206

Jeez, what a load of muck sh1te!

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293526#Comment_121293526

This is it in a nutshell. If only everyone had your clarity!

65535

I don't hold out much hope for it - Website is telling - A lack of understanding of Eircode - with Dublin 22 and then Eircode of D22 -

It should have been ALL plastic bottles and cans - similar to Germany - now you have to look for some logo or other and then bring that back to somewhere or other - meh

Grumpypants

The idea is great, it's one thing I always wondered about why we didn't have it when I see endless cans and bottles thrown around the ground.

The only issue is it is coming after minimum unit pricing that has mad drinks very expensive already. A slab of cans has gone from those Christmas deals of 24 cans of Guinness for €15 to €48. This will now push it over €51.

It would have been much easier to swallow if that was scrapped.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297037#Comment_121297037

I drink responsibly and have to pay MUP prices because others don't drink responsibly.

I recycle responsibly and now I have to pay more upfront and put up with inconvenience to get my deposit back because others don't recycle responsibly.

Way of the world I suppose.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296948#Comment_121296948

That's the correct address format, the existing Dublin postal districts weren't affected by Eircode.

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296948#Comment_121296948

Unless I am mistaken it is the same as Germany for plastic and cans. 100ml to 3litres. All drinks bottles and cans in Ireland will have that logo on bottle shortly after launch date (allowing for clearing of old stock). It will be illegal for drinks producers to put a plastic bottle or can on the market which does not have the logo in Ireland after mid march. It will be illegal for a retailer to sell a plastic drinks bottle or can after the end of may. The first week or two of the transition will be a bit messy, after that, unless you are drinking fairly obscure stuff, the old stock will have washed through the system and essentially everything drink related will be returnable.

With the exception that glass is included in Germany. Ireland has high recycling rates of glass, so there was no need to include glass and the much higher costs that that would have brought in terms of running the scheme.

Muahahaha

Did the initial pilot scheme in Glengeary that started this thread expand to other Lidl stores? Saw one of these machines outside Lidl in Naas the other day but it had metal shutters pulled down over it and wasnt operational. Not sure if the pilot expanded or they are just getting ready for full implementation. My local Aldi has no machine but I noticed a new concrete foundation near the trollies which is presumably for the forthcoming machines.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298117#Comment_121298117

Thats how the one in Aldi Dungarvan started (not open yet).

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298125#Comment_121298125

ok right thanks they must be just ready for rollout in advance. But had wondered as on the Lidl app their Naas store is listed as a 'test store' for their various promotions

upinthesky

All supermarkets will have them it’s coming into law, lidl and aldi are not doing this for the environment they are doing it because they have too!

the watchman

96% of people recycle responsibly and correctly already via household collection services and the local tip.

Its a new tax.

It probably wasn't intentional but it is simply a new tax.

if you can't see that then you're probably blinded by the green agenda label .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300636#Comment_121300636

You may want to check your source on that %, it's in the low 60's,not the high 90's

The rest of the post is nonsense

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300636#Comment_121300636

Firstly if you get it back its clearly not a tax. It may be an inconvenience but its not a tax. It only becomes a charge on you if you choose not to claim the money back. Thats like saying if you claim legitimate expenses from your jon that work are taxing you.

Secondly, less than 2/3rds of bottles and cans are recycled. Those that are recycled are not recycled in a dedicated waste stream meaning they tend to be contaminated and need significantly more reprocessing. Kerbside recycling has its place but it is not always the answer.

These schemes operate all over Europe and have done so for decades. They arent seen as taxes there.

the watchman

SURVEY

Just completed small survey. Road with 54 households.

48 households use waste collection companies to collect all their waste.

3 households take all their waste to the local tip.

3 households unknown .

It seems a little unfair to 'incentivise' all the above to change the way they already responsibly do the right green thing or penalise them if they don't.

Rigor Mortis

No is disputing that Ireland has a high penetration of domestic green bins. But that doesnt actually achieve anything in terms of outcomes. The plastic that comes out of this co-mingled waste stream is frequently contaminated and tends to be downcycled. By keeping it separate it can be used as food grade plastic in the future. This makes a huge impact on emissions.

Addtionally, with bottles and cans, kerbside is only one part of the story. Immediate COnsumption (buying a bottle on the go in spar etc) is a massive part of the market. Those bottles are rarely recycled in kerbside. They normally go into normal litter bins and are not always recycled. Thats if they dont end up as litter.

There is a belief that that this is about the small number of people that dont recycle. Its not, its about the fact that current recycling system doesnt work efficiently for bottles and cans. These kind of schemes have solved that problem in Germany, Norway Denmark and across Europe and in states across America for years.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314012#Comment_121314012

How does a plastic bottle in a green bin get 'contaminated' ?

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314104#Comment_121314104

A lot of what goes into a green bin is unwashed and will have traces of other products, eg yoghurt coffee detergents etc. By keeping bottles and cans separate it is easier and considerably cheaper to recycle them back to their original use. Conversely, removing the cans or bottles without lids will also improve the quality of paper and card that are left behind in the recycling bin. All of these things may seem trivial but they impact considerably on the quality of recycling and the ability to use the products again at the same food grade.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314361#Comment_121314361

Thats just a problem with the way Ireland decided to set up its green bins. No reason you can't have separate bins for aluminum, paper, plastics, cardboard and glass. Don't say it can't be done because its worked that way in plenty of areas of the UK for years.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314361#Comment_121314361

They still need to be cleaned I presume going through the new process and presumably plastic is cleanable in a way paper is not.

I don't see how the quality of the paper and card in the recycling bin will be significantly improved merely by removing plastic bottles and cans when food and drink cartons, detergent bottles etc still go in there. If these are responsible for contaminating plastic bottles in the same bin that must surely count double for paper and card.

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314395#Comment_121314395

Thats a solution. Absolutely agree. But, that will also lead to significantly higher collection costs. The furore in the UK about moving to 7 bins as was suggested by the Government to cover the materials above + food waste + garden waste + landfill/non recyclable, shows that that means is neither popular nor cheap. That system exists in a number of places in NI and its far from perfect.

Also notable, that the Uk are introducing the same system as Ireland in 2025/26 and the Irish operator is seen by many in UK Government as being the model to follow. The only significant delays to the uK system at the moment is the internicine constitutional political spat that occurred between SNP and Torys and a dispute between three of the four nations as to whether glass should be included in the scheme. That debate was never live in the Republic because we dont really have an issue with glass collection.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314443#Comment_121314443

Aren't we going to have higher collection costs because items the collection companies sold on are no longer in the green bin?