The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy

Dual wheels

some interesting insights this evening, the son saying their bond was stronger than any marriage?? And they used to stay in a hotel in Dublin, I’d be very surprised if they weren’t having an affair... I would agree with the version at the end that there were other people in the house and that he was beaten downstairs, everyone legged it and fr Molloy was dragged upstairs to the bedroom probably kicked some more and assumed dead

Xander10

Watched it. Blood boiling. A horrible case of cover up by the rich and heads of state. And the blackening of the poor priest's name.

sligojoek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887115#Comment_117887115

Flynns rang the priest . The priest rang the bishop. All before anyone thought to ring an ambulance and then the guards.

Stinks to high heaven. (pun not intended)

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887466#Comment_117887466

Why would his assailant/s do that? It would make no sense. The evidence points to the fatal assault having taken place in the bedroom. You had the blood stained carpet, blood splatters on the door next to where the body lay and blood in the en-suite bathroom. I heard no mention of any similar findings downstairs although there were blood marks on the stairs.

Tork

First priority was to get Mrs Flynn out of there before she gave the game away.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887604#Comment_117887604

Exactly, as said above, surely the worst place to move a body to. To my mind the Judge has an awful lot of questions to answer. What was said to him in the absence of a jury ? So much for justice being done in public. It just doesn’t seem right that a Judge can basically dismiss a criminal trial without giving any explanation.

Deeec

It would seem there were several witness's to the crime and several people were staying in the house that night yet nobody seen or heard anything. The question remaining for me is why so many people have stayed silent on this matter. What hold did the Flynns have over these people?

Relationships change over the passage of time - you would think after all these years someone would reveal what actually happened.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887604#Comment_117887604

They may have carried him up to the bedroom thinking that he may come around and with a bathroom close by ...to facilitate to clean wounds inflicted...but it would be all in vain

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887684#Comment_117887684

Perhaps, but that could have been done downstairs where there was a kitchen, obviously, and given the type of house it was, possibly a ground floor bathroom as well. Alan Dukes summed it up. Those searching for explanations are unlikely to ever find them.

HildaOgdenx

Haven't watched yet, but I was thinking about it since watching part one. I wonder if they did move the body to the bedroom, knowing that would send suspicion all over the place, with people jumping to all sorts of conclusions.

FWIW, I do not believe there was any relationship beyond friendship between Fr Molloy and Mrs Flynn. The story about a row over drinks was beyond ridiculous, I don't suppose anyone believed that for a second.

The Gardaí were presented with a scene, a bedroom where the man was lying dead, and downstairs the (supposed) perpetrator saying he did it. They had no reason to look elsewhere in the house. It was the mid 80s. There have been lots of advances in forensic science and whatever else since then. Nowadays, the whole house would probably be cordoned off, and searched from top to bottom.

My heart goes out to his family. And while, of course, we are all equally entitled to our views and opinions on what may or may not have happened, I will always try to approach such things by imagining myself in the shoes of his family, and how hurtful speculation about his relationship with Mrs Flynn, must be.

Not to mention how horribly and horrifically they have been let down by the justice system.

I don't suppose the truth will ever be known. Some have taken the secret of what they did or did not do, to their graves.

I commend his family for the battle they have taken on, and continue to fight.

Dual wheels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887680#Comment_117887680

I would assume that the majority of those present were Flynn family members plus nobody was ever going to admit being present at such an event, it would have destroyed their reputation, you’re not talking about the ordinary joe and Mary up the road but high society who are and were above the law, it’s also a possibility that a swingers party or an orgy was happening

my assumption of those in attendance would have been the local doctor and his wife (different doctor was called for later) possibly the family solicitor and his wife, a high flying politician and his wife, a high ranking member of an Garda Siochana, a member of the judiciary perhaps...

It’s comical that the bishop in mullingar knew about it before the medics!

although he didn’t deserve what happened to him it is worth remembering fr Molloy was one of them, a member of high society until they no longer wanted him and his other master the church abandoned him in the end

Tork

...

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887578#Comment_117887578

And the priest saying he didn't know 999 was the emergency call number ffs!

sligojoek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887786#Comment_117887786

I was in my late teens in '85. I knew 10 years before that what 999 was

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887673#Comment_117887673

Not the worst place to move the body at all. By putting the body in the bedroom rather than the hall or landing you change a situation where the church wanted answers to one where they wanted to cover things up.

Gadgetman496

Who did Flynn marry after Theresa died?

Spencer101

There are a group of people said to be in Whites until 2 hours after it closed. On the scenario floated last night many of them around the time the pub closes are in fact back in Kilcoursey. A sudden and violent row breaks out downstairs. That said Fr. Molloy has no defensive wounds so someone sets themselves on him. They do this because of something he says not because of what he did. As strange as many seem to think it was to bring up the debt at the wedding would Fr. Molloy have brought it up in front of 6-8-10 people ? I'm inclined to think no. So one of the Flynn's in front of what is a close family group says something to embarrass him/ try to stop him along lines of ' You'll never guess what Father is going to do.' Another person in that group strikes him due to inebriation. 1 or more of them batter him ferociously.

If Father Molloy is upstairs in the bedroom in light of the decisions being made that night ' he can't have been downstairs' in a larger group who were ' in the pub.' I think of their own volition (or on foot of the first piece of legal advice that was phoned for) they got people out of the house and they created a story as to who was where.

Likely he was unconscious downstairs and they believed him dead or dying such that medical assistance was moot. So he was really battered downstairs. Whether rightly or wrongly I understood him to be punched and kicked downstairs. I understood from last night's episode that he was bleeding in the face from having been kicked and as he was carried in blood was splattered on the upstairs skirting boards and the pooling of blood on the carpet was due to a facial wound from a kick.

If I did not follow that part of the episode correctly- the Flynns and Molloy are in the upstairs room and someone charges in and kicks him in the face ?

It was in the house. It was over money. There was at least a 3rd person involved. Whilst the McGinn report makes the issue re the watch a lot more complicated than the programme last night did for now lets say it was around 1040pm. There was then many, many hours where a plan was formed within the group and/or from outside. The Flynns recognise that Fr. Deighan will call the Bishop, the implications of the 'fight in the bedroom' will be obvious and in as far as they can the church will be somewhat protective of the Flynns' rather than their own priest.

Why would the first doctor who was called to the house lie about being told the fight started downstairs ? Why would be be mistaken ? Who would you believe a doctor or the Flynns ?

I also tend to believe that the Molloy family member who felt Fr. Molloy had been 'clipped' for a few quid more than once before the £12,000 deposit episode is likely correct. We were told last night that the motorfactor company Flynn owned had debts of £20,000-£25,000 in 1983. We've been told the significance of £12,000 in 1985- twice or nearly twice that amount of money 2 years earlier- was a lot of money. The losses continued.

Somehow though the Flynns kept the show on the road until 1991 when Kilcoursey was sold. They must have gone through at least €100,000 in today's money for solicitors and barristers for the trial and inquest. Where did the £100,000 which they did not seem to have in 1985 come from ?

i hope Bill Maher and family find peace soon- they have gone above and beyond to find the truth- I feel this documentary will be the end of their search though, not a new chapter- a commission of enquiry doesn’t look like it will achieve anything - too many people dead, infirm (aren’t doctors notes so convenient), and just willing to lie under oath.

The church, the legal system and the state all failed Fr. Molloy

RIP

Sheep breeder

This was a complete cover up by the church, doctor, Cops, and political involvement. Looks like he was attacked downstairs and moved to the bedroom to make up a story and died in the bedroom after a period of time. The investigation was a complete cover up with no house to house calls or any talk of the pub being checked out and so much evidence not gathered and then what was gathered lost over time. The fact that they tried to claim a life policy payment as his sister was not followed up on said a lot about the whole Garda thing was a cover up from a very high level up to now. The Flynn’s were up to their neck in owing money and what the priest was owed was small compared to the total mess they were in. The bishop interviewed laughed off there being a will. The only conclusion you could come to of the cover up was that a person with high end politics was in the house on the night and the local country copper was got off the case as quick as possible to have no local knowledge involved or fill in parts of the story what was really going on.

Spencer101

The present bishop was 32 when Fr Molloy died. He was 20 years younger and started his career as a priest in a school in Ringsend and then as a chaplain in UCD. Seems unlikely he ever met Fr Molloy who was in Roscommon from 1975-1985. The bishop was casual and a little jovial and was offering an explanation as to why the army's belief Fr Molloy had made a will might be incorrect and to state there was no will on file in the Bishop's office. Hard to please everyone but the bishop might with benefit of hindsight have been a little more sombre.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887979#Comment_117887979

During the trial ,Maureen now Mrs Parkes was by Richards side.....that financial help for solicitors, barristers, etc, if needed was then on tap.

Turfcutter

I expect Richard Flynn would have gotten free legal aid which is standard for defendants in such a serious trial.

Is there any reason why he wouldn't have?

Turfcutter

Interestingly in Part 2, JJ Gibbons revealed that Fr Deignan contacted Mullingar (the diocesan hq) immediately. This is hardly surprising on reflection.

However it adds a new twist. There were statements made to suggest that the Flynns immediately started phone communications with their solicitor in Dublin after the assault. The advice on the phone being to clear the house of witnesses.

There is a new possibility that the solicitor who took control of managing the situation was the church's solicitor and not the Flynn family solicitor.

Part of the plan would be that it should be Fr Deignan and not a Flynn to go to the barracks to alert Sgt Forde. The basis being that a man of his standing had a better chance of instigating a cover up. It was a long shot but still worth trying as I've no doubt there have been over successful cover ups down through the year.

cap.in.hand.

On the mcginn report when the Garda inspector was questioning Richard on what happened and taking notes on the night...Richard said fr Molloy was gasping for air on the floor after the alleged assault and Richard said he had known at the time of fr Molloys WEAK HEART which I presume he would say finally caused his death,so obviously fr Molloy must have told the Flynn's he had a weak heart prior to this.

Talisman

I missed the first half of the episode but will catch it on the player later. The attitude of both the bishop and Alan Dukes pissed me off. Neither of them have any appetite for the truth to be revealed.

Alan Dukes was Minister for Justice when the trial took place and he hid behind the judge Roe's decision at the time. In 2021 his attitude amounts to "Ah sure it was 35 years ago, the Molloy family are never likely to find out the truth now."

Spencer101

When looking at whether to grant legal aid a court looks at the means of the person charged amongst other issues.

Turfcutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888631#Comment_117888631

It depends how they balance large debt vs. some valuable assets in the means test perhaps.

Pussyhands

Very interesting. The truth will never be known, all we can do is come up with theories.

Did they say last night that Molloy went to his solicitor and told him to break off all business with the Flynns? If this is correct, then the fact he was murdered that night would move the idea that he went and told them he was breaking the partnership and wanted his money back from a possibility to a probability, for me.

We know Richard Flynn said he punched Molloy and also he said he hit his wife. I think the wife part is also true. She had injuries and he blood was found on Richard Flynn. The thing about that is why would he have hit the wife? Was he laying into Molloy on the ground and his wife was trying to stop him and he lashed out at her to get her away?

Blood splatters in the room would make it obvious he was attacked at some stage in the room. The fact there was blood over the bannisters and on the stairs means it could have initially happened downstairs and was carried up. Could he have been attacked in front of other people downstairs and then they said they needed to get him into another room so they can say they knew nothing about it, if it came to that? If Fr Molloy was still alive downstairs, and was brought upstairs...after a while he may have regained consciousness and tried to drag himself out. That could maybe explain the drag marks on the carpet. Then Richard may have thought he was past the point of no return and had to finish him off to get away.

Dual wheels

Someone makes a good point above, by moving the body to the bedroom it meant they would get the church onside and they would immediately look to instigate a cover up... my opinion would be that a solicitor was in attendance or a solicitor was immediately phoned and his advice was to get the body into the bedroom so as there would be a question mark over a lovers tiff and therefore the church would look to cover up and then advised the Flynn’s to clear the place of witnesses and then formulate a plan on how to handle the next steps

It seems to me there is a possibility that multiple people best fr Molloy and therefore their silence was guaranteed because of their involvement and it seems fr Molloy was kicked again upstairs, whilst it looks like his killing wasn’t premeditated it may be a case that the Flynn’s became opportunistic realizing his death solved a lot of their problems

I also still think there was an affair going on between Mrs Flynn and fr Molloy and this annoyed the son David Flynn and therefore he may have struck the fatal blow

alan dukes and bishop Brennan are typical scumbags who have no interest in justice but those types don’t surprise me

Pussyhands

The insurance premium thing I believe was a plan by Molloy and the Flynns in case he died. They were very close friends. "Sure stick me down as a sibling just in case. We're business partners and they won't know I'm not your sister". No doubt initiated by the flynns.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885236#Comment_117885236

There were a number of professionals/‘people of standing’ phoned before a doctor or especially guards or ambulance service was called. ‘Guidance’ was sought and more than likely a plan/strategy was hatched. Ie There were ONLY three of us in the house - Fr Niall my wife ,Threasa and myself. It all happened in the bedroom, we were all a bit tipsy. Threasa was asleep, being very tired. Fr. Niall and myself woke her up with our chatting at the end of the bed. Some of us felt like more drink and a heated discussion broke out as to who might get it. Threasa and Fr Niall ‘ganged ‘up on me and I lashed out on both of them with a fist or two to protect myself. The row, if you can call it that was over something very stupid - ie who should go down stairs for my drink- but it all ended up with the sad passing of Fr Niall.

the above scenario which is the one that the defence has stuck to was supplied by only one person - Flynn himself. Nobody else said anything as to what happened. Everybody else with possibly some information to help get to the truth have remained silent or have denied what they said earlier - especially in relation to on particular individual.

So the whole situation/circumstances / what triggered it was kept were tight and simple and the OMEARTA has prevailed to date.

Its of interest that the son, who made a very troubling comment after the inquest, that he was not brought in for questioning if not for withholding information - maybe he had the right to remain silent as per the law at the time.

i found the comment on the stopped watch by the officer in charge of the review team to be very naive to put it mildly. He said that if the stopped watch could have been used as evidence that the investigation would have taken a completely different course. The fact that it was given back to the family a few days after the murder is neither here nor there because the garda/Sargent in control of the watch as possible evidence could vouch that he removed the watch from Fr Malloy’s wrist, that the face of it was cracked and that it was stopped at 10.40 and that he handed over the said watch to Fr. Mulloys people on such a time and such a date.

if it was produced as evidence- after having been with the Malloy’s- the defence could argue that Fr. Molloy forgot to wind it and ,secondly,what day did it stop and was it am or pm. So , even if the watch was produced , with or without it having been given to Fr Niall’s family , the exact same questions would apply. The CORE evidence re the watch would have been the report given by whoever took off the watch from Fr Niall’s wrist in relation to the fact that it was stopped, the time it was stopped a and cracked face.

whether it was admitted as evidence or not it was an extremely strong reason for forensics , etc, to ‘ start the clock’ relationship when the whole thing happened rather than it happening circa2 to 3 hours later.

I applaud the family for its endevours to find the truth. I’ sure that it’s not an isolated case. The main hope is that at least one will come forward because of the guilt being carried and will be overcome by it , a death bed conversion, a report being left by someone who has passed on, a diligent civil servant ,etc, with basic morals , will come across some or all of the ‘lost” reports/ evidence

cap.in.hand.

For such a high society wedding...there was never any photographs of the ceremony or reception released and that day went off with no drama... and maybe the next day as well....surely guests bought their cameras with them as that was a big thing then to record the memories of the day by photographs

Whestsidestory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887059#Comment_117887059

I think the reason they brought the body upstairs to the bedroom was to take attention from everybody else who was in the house. This meant that only 3 people knew what happened one of which was dead, a second who was 'unconscious ' and a third who admitted the crime. If RF was covering up for someone downstairs it worked because there didn't seem to be much investigation into who was there.

Dual wheels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888846#Comment_117888846

It wouldn’t be unusual even today for the family of a high society wedding to request no photographs be taken

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889062#Comment_117889062

I would suggest that it was not that ‘high’. There was a few local notables at it alright but with up to two hundred + at it the bulk must have been ordinary folk. There were no film stars or equivalent at it and who would want to send photos that the family would have total control over for sale to VOGUE or AN Poblacht

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888631#Comment_117888631

McEntee never did free legal aid cases. He was the biggest name and most sought after barrister of his generation.

Turfcutter

Let's not mix up high society with celebrity weddings. Also, the high society thing is probably overstated, they were people who came from relative wealth.

Every week people who are wealthy, went to expensive schools and enjoy horses get married. We don't see any photos and I doubt there is any demand to see them.

Also, why would guests start publishing any photos they had? Especially when they could incriminate themselves?

Spencer101

It was not really a high society wedding as far as I can see. There was a podcast that the producer of last night's documentary appeared on in 2020. I believe she said there were 250 people at the wedding. Aside from the Parkes cohort there was no one that obviously rich at the wedding. The Flynns were in a 23 room mansion but had no money and one imagine that the house was bought in 1981 and sold in 1991 for figures that seem paltry by today's standards. Understand that Therese Flynn's sister was married to Brendan Bowyer. Therese had been in UCD with Brian Lenihan's wife- so the Lenihan's attended. After that who was there ?

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889228#Comment_117889228

I'm not talking photos of the wedding been on hello magazine etc....my point was with it being a wedding where taking of photos was a normal activity amongst guests that surely fr Molloy may be in a photo accidentally or otherwise from guests taking photos at tables etc at reception...it would prove nothing ,it's just unusual they was no pictures of the wedding couple were ever published in the media since and it was their wedding weekend that drew attention because a guest died under suspicious circumstances...and not the Richard and Therese wedding show

Wombatman

A few observations....

• The priest who attended the scene keeping stum because he was under 'confessional protection' is a massive crock. Should have been done for withholding evidence. Speaks volumes about the churches priorities.
• The downstairs killing is not working for me. Too much blood spatter in the bedroom.
• Wounds and blood spatter suggest a weapon or object was used. Blood sprayed when weapon was swung as second and third time. Never found because never really looked for.
• Guards were as good as useless.
• The broken watch suggests loads of time was taken to concoct a story before 'help' or the authorities were called. Fr. Niall may have been alive during the time it took to answer the 'what the flip are we going to do now' questions. Had his welfare been the priority he may have survived.

Likely scenario for me.

Teresa and Fr. Molloy were together. Richard was elsewhere as usual. Fr. Molloy broke the news about the 'breakup' to Threasa. She flipped and attacked him with some object. Knocked him out and keep going. Richard came in hearing the commotion. She went off on him too. He hit her a few slaps to restrain her. Once they cooled off they took a while coming up with a story leaning toward a self defence or manslaughter plea.

The money wasn't the difficult part of the disentanglement. It was the emotional ties. Emotions drive extraordinary actions.

Sy Kick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889224#Comment_117889224

To even speak to the man, an initial face to face, you had to put a thousand pound cash down on the table. That's not to say he would even take your case.

tipptom

There seems to be a lot of confusion into who was there and a mixing up of the actual wedding and the post wedding party that was on the following day.

For instance was Brian Lenihan and his wife even there the next day?

Was there many there the next day and was it just a few guests that stayed over in extended houses and was it just a day thing to feed people and be on their way then, as it seems the younger ones done their own thing that night.

Did the three of them not go for drinks to the peabodys home?,that would suggest that all guests had left Kilcoursey house by at least early afternoon/evening on the Sunday

It is very possible that it may have been just the three of them there at 10.20 that night with maybe a family member or two

I dont subscribe to a host of people witnessing this and a scatteration of goverment ministrys,priests,doctors and judiciary wigs fleeing across the lawn after witnessing this murder.

Turfcutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889477#Comment_117889477

The people of the town had no ability to sway the outcome one way or another. The local Gardai were quickly superseded on the case by a higher up squad.

None of the alleged conspirators; the Gardai, DPP, Judge, Church, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, rogue solicitors and the horsey set were of the town.

Richard Flynn was from Galway and moved to Clara about 5 years before the murder. It seems counter logical that clannish and backward people would take a bigshot into their hearts in such a fashion.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889723#Comment_117889723

Richard was originally from Galway but he had the 400 acre farm in tubber where they lived... which isn't far from Clara

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888142#Comment_117888142

The impression from last night programme was that his immediate family didn't know really the profitable business he had while he was alive and he certainly was not going to divulge it to the church authorities in written form in a WILL...he seemed to keep his cards close to his chest as he would be entitled...he obviously was a excellent businessman as well as a excellent priest and wanted to live the life with benefits that a successful business can provide and he did and more luck to him

Trigger Happy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888302#Comment_117888302

Paddy McEntee represented him. No legal aid would cover Paddy's bill.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889477#Comment_117889477

I'm not really seeing what the people of Clara are supposed to know that is such a deep dark secret?

I doubt any of them know any more than the rest of us who watched the documentary.

Turfcutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890115#Comment_117890115

Interesting. I thought the likes of Flynn and Malcolm McArthur who were represented by McEntee were in a similar boat - well heeled but seriously out of cash and that the state would be picking up the tab.

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889477#Comment_117889477

I listened to a podcast the producer of the show (and others) did last year. I'm not that familiar with Clara. The gist of what one contributor to the podcast said was the Kilcoursey part of Clara was very rural and whereas in 2020 there were lots of housing estates there in 1985 it was not built up. They said something to the effect that the Flynn's kept to themselves and were not particularly well known in the area. As pointed out already on this page both Richard and Therese were from Galway and moved to Clara in 1981. Now they only moved from Tober- 4 miles away but any way the suggestion is they were not that well know in Clara.

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890350#Comment_117890350

McArthur was broke he had gone through his inheritance that's how the murders arose. I can imagine McEntee was known without breaking the bar's so called ' cab-rank' rule to coincidentally do an awful lot of private paying work. But can't think he navigated the 1980's without doing some legal aid cases. Notwithstanding his ' star quality' he would be obligated to some solicitors and might be stuck if the solicitor said ' sorry Paddy taken the legal aid brief in (say) the McArthur case you are doing that one with me.' In some instances depending on the solicitor and their history he prob couldn't say no.