The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy
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Guess.....:The flynns owed Molloy money. Molly was looking for his money. An argument ensued. The husband gave Molloy a good belt in the head , stunning him. He followed up with 3/4 more , eventually leading to his death.
The husbands hand was severely bruised with some account of it being broken.
The husband said it was this hand that killed molloy.
The typical Irish thing was done then.
Yearra ..twas spur of the moment.....he didn't mean it....he's a good character....highly respected...no need to ruin two peoples lives...etc. Tis like the guy killing 3 people drunk driving and getting a suspended sentence.
The heart being not the best gave the judge a way out for Flynn.
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The moves made by the flynns after Fr Molloys death seem unbelievably money orientated when they should have been keeping their heads down.
The murder and their hand in it with all the resultant publicity did not seem to alter their course at all
Trying to claim his small insurance with false information.The hiding of his personal property and selling off of horses and then claiming there was no money after vets fees etc.The claims that they had actually given him back his deposit in cash from the safe with no receipt all after his death and changing storys on how this was done and no cash was ever accounted for
Judge Roe was big into his horses who had a son who was champion jockey in ireland and good friends with the flynns,i wonder was he at the wedding?
Did the investigating team bring Flynns son in for questioning when he very publically revealed that he had information on the case that no one else knew,surely this witholding of information in a criminal case is an offence?
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Just to try to deal with a few points in some of the recent posts. The sum of money that Fr. Molloy was due back was £12,000 not £24,000. Molloy and Therese Flynn had agreed to buy land which was part of the Kilcoursey House estate from Richard Flynn. Flynn's business had cash flow problems. (Strictly was Therese Flynn not buying something from her husband she already partly owed ?) I am not sure how many people were at the wedding but the McGinn report says something like the only politicians at the wedding were Brian Lenihan and a member of the Fianna Fail National Executive. Lenihan was there as his wife had been in university with Therese Flynn. They were long standing friends but perhaps the closeness had been over stated. When the Lenihan's lived in Athlone they had dinner once a year with the Flynns who were about 15 miles away. I know nothing of the Parkes political clout at the time. Lalababa - you suggest the thrust of the story is known as to how the priest died but the explanation for the row is untrue. I don't think anyone believes the account of the row over Richard Flynn not getting drinks for his wife and friend causing a row. I think its harder to understand why many think there was someone else involved in the fight. Most will read the account of Richard Flynn at 2-3 am and after and feel that he was prenaturally calm. It is easy to 'read' this as a sense of resignation that it was his duty to cover for someone else. Multiple media reports post 1991 when Therese Flynn died refer to a belief in the Midlands that Richard Flynn was not the murderer and the murderer was still alive. Exactly why local views fell in this way ?
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What is truly known about the Roe to Flynn connection? There is an alleged letter he sent to DPP pre-trial saying that he personally knew them. If he highlighted this as described, then it would be bizarre that he presided over the trial. If he was part of a trial rigging conspiracy, then why try to blow the whistle on himself?
Frequently it is speculated that Richard Flynn walked free because of; Fianna Fail links, the 'horsey set' and his wealth. None of these were much help with the judge who was; a Fine Gaeler, a horse racing man not a showjumping man, and Flynn was nearly broke.
There simpler explanation is unconscious bias. The judge saw a man in the dock of similar status to himself and felt less inclined to treat him like a common criminal. Had the same type of incident taken place in Dublin's inner city involving friends and drug debt, I'd expect Roe would have sent the culprit down.
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I dont know for sure if the Flynns were FF supporters,just because Brian Lenihan was at the wedding as there would have been a personal(flynns and lenihans wife) rather than a poitical relationship there and the Lenihans from Athlone where the Flynns had a buissness.
I think Judge Roe was more into the sporting horse like showjumpers and hunters like Mrs Flynn and Fr Molloy where as the judges son was the thoroughbred person as a jockey.
I assumed the judge wrote the letter at the time as someone who seemed comfortable in the knowledge that the DPP would pass no remarks in that the judge knew the Flynns and that Roe was almost vouching for their good character in his letter.
Of course this is all speculation on my behalf and they are probably way off.
The biggest indication of the sort of cover up ireland we lived in at that time was the priest asking the local guard when he arrived was if there was some way "we could cover this up",while a fellow priest was lying on the floor with horrific injuries that he said he didnt know was alive or dead
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Tend to believe the ex DPP rather than gangland criminals and journalists re the alleged Frank Roe letter. If the file was stolen and that letter was in it why was it not photocopied and leaked ? It also seems by 1985 that the Flynns were ' all fur coat and no knickers.' No one was bribed. Aside from whether anyone was amenable to being bribed (which we can come back to) there doesn't seem to have been any money to bribe anyone. If the Flynns had money why not just re-pay the £12,000 they owed Fr Molloy. Kilcoursey house was sold in 1991 and as I understand it the sale was delayed by several years because of litigation brought by the Molloys. The Flynn's first tried to put Kilcoursey on the market in 1986/ 1987.
In the history of the state have gardai, judges and witnesses been bribed- I am sure they have. But in relation to the first 2 groups suggest it is likely far, far less common than people like to think. The Flynns were not really known to Clara Gardai. Whilst by the standards of 2021 the 1985 investigation may not look good any failings were because they could not do any better rather than because they had been paid to mess it up. Remember from the start when queried by the parish priest, if something could be 'done', the answer was effectively no- it had to be investigated.
If there was some cover up of the type some seem to believe its rather bizarre- 'lets charge Flynn only and we'll get him up in front of a 'tame' judge who will let him off after a defence application.' The more people you involve in a process like that the harder it is to control and guarantee. Would it not have been simpler in an era where CCTV was really rather uncommon and mobile phones did not really exist for 99.99% of population- let alone phones with cameras- to suggest I don't know ' sadly Fr Flynn who had been much enjoying the wedding festivities was found after what looks like a particularly bad fall down the long flight of stairs at Kilcoursey house.' The reality is this was not done because the Flynns had no unusual pull. More of those involved in the process after the death who were employed by the state were basically really rather honest than dishonest-people like to think otherwise but that seems to be the position.
At the time of the wedding Fr Molloy was owed what must be about €40,000 in 2021 values. He turns up at the wedding. For now I accept that a Flynn Grandson was born in December and therefore the wedding was arranged with a degree of speed. Now the December baby may be another tall tale like the DPP being a god father of one of the Flynn children- but for now accept it. Perhaps there was coverage in 1986/1987 that went into some detail about Richard Flynn recently becoming a grandfather ? Allowing for all the myths about this case it would be helpful if someone backed up that point.
In any event for whatever reason even though he lived much of the month at Kilcoursey house- Fr Molloy was not initimate to all of the plans that Therese and her daughter made. He turns up and realises that his €40,000 had gone on Marquee hire and to the Bridge House Hotel etc, etc. He brings it up with Richard and or Therese - either once or twice. Does anyone know how far into 3 figures the wedding attendance went ? Take it there were at least 200 there ? But anyone know the exact number.
Anyway Molloy either brings up money once with Richard and is hit and then goes up to his room. (I presume in the mid 1980s most priests were not habitually punched but the coroners report said (afaik) that Molloy was over the drink drive limit but only slightly and not particularly intoxicated. But he could still not drive his car. Maybe drink drive laws in the country were not much observed by non priests in 1980s - but lets take it that a priest would be more adherent to such laws ? ) He likely intends to go home in the morning.
Therese follows him up to ask him not to get Richard in trouble/ to try and forget about the punch or two. He tells her no and says something that makes Therese realise that their perceived wealth and status will fall apart and she then becomes hysterical. Hearing Therese become very distressed at (say) Fr Molloy confirming that he was going to lodge court proceedings for £12,000 (and who knows perhaps other money) another member of the wedding party (perhaps not Richard) goes to Therese's aid. Their input to the discussion is to batter Fr. Molloy.
In another possible scenario Therese and Richard are in the same room and Therese does not then follow Molloy but much the same thing happens with perhaps a 4th person joining the discussion.
A judge's tip staff/ usher often has a very significant insight into a judge's life. Roe's usher was alive in 2014 and in his remarks to Gardai in reports that were fed into McGinn's report tends to suggest that Roe knew none of the parties. The previous point about unconscious bias however is very apt. A circuit court judge who retired in the last decade was always told in exhaustive detail about all the sporting interests and activities of middle class defendants in criminal cases. He was generally seen as softer on such people with sentences compared to working class defendants. Did he take bribes ? No. Was he an unpleasant man ? No. Did he have certain biases and prejudices in terms of his general outlook in life ? Yes and that led him to treat middle class people especially those active in sport more leniently
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I am not sure where people get the 12 k from. Dr Molloy paid a 24k deposit for the land he was going buying off the Flynn's. The total deposit was released to Richard Flynn.
On the value of the money. A good years wages would be 10-12k the equivalent to a 50-60k wage now. A house back then worth 25k would be worth 175-200 k now. In a time where access to money was restricted, the 24k was probably nearer to 120&160k.
As well that was only the tip of the money involved. For Molly had other land and horses with Theressa Flynn. In today's terms they may have been a 250k in play
Slava Ukrainii
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Of all the people that night i think Fr Molloy would have taken the least drink.
He was not at the wedding the day before and apparently after passing himself to the guests he took out a horse and trap for a spin.
This says to me he had no interest in the party and was waiting until the guests left to confront the Flynns about his money and this lead to a violent argument
I dont think there was any bribery with Judge Roe but maybe he knew the Flynns so well and knew the backgound to the horse and land dealings
He did go to extradordinary lenghts and career risks though to aquit but it seems that when he got the out with McAtees heart attack defence he grabbed it,could Roe have been involved in some of the dealings?
I think the truth is a bit simpler about that night that it happend close to what the Flynns said but turned violent over the money and if anyone else was there it was close family members of the Flynns and it is possible that the assaults was carried out by these members or with RF.
The priest and the Doctors actions that night was a disgracful cover up and led to the real truth to be never discovered
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That's a extraordinary deposit you'd think without a ounce of title...did the Flynn's not fully own that land outright as the land commission was involved...the Flynn family solicitor who seemed to be the "partnership" solicitor as well doesn't seem have searched the land title very well to allow for such a large sum of money to transfer to the Flynn bank account knowing full sale might not be able to be completed because of land commission kind of stipulation in the land deeds
Post edited by cap.in.hand. on1 -
The tagline for this case is that it involves a cover up that would rock the state to its very foundations, if it became known.
Yet, to me it looks more like incompetence being somehow spun as a multi layer conspiracy.
There are two pieces of incompetence that stand out.
1 - The half arsed Garda investigation. We have the culprit, we have a confession, why bother our holes interviewing dozens of people who seemingly weren't even there at the time.
2 - A generous judge being overly favourable to someone of his own social status and bringing down the hammer as soon as it could be explained a bit of aggro over G+Ts between gentlemen.
It's worth remembering that even if a different killer was put up for trial, the weak heart defence would still have been put before the judge.
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What a silly occasion to approach someone about a debt, if that’s what happened.
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The wedding was over and i am sure that it was the lavish spending given to Christy Maye and the big marqee owners etc that brought it to the fore that night.
I think a lot of people think that this happened on the wedding night
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I would still like to know if the investigating team brought the Flynns son in for questioning on foot of his very public statement that he was witholding evidence that he knew in relation to a murder?
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hile Flynns owned the land the LC had a say in whether it was possible to split the holding or not. The LC refused so the sale could not proceed. It was not uncommon for solicitors to work for multiple clients in a transaction at the time it was allowed there has been huge changes since. Richard Flynn needed money his business's were in trouble. You have to look at the fact he came from a large land owning family (400 acres) which he had sold in the 70's and it had flitted away over 10 odd years it seems. From the look of it he was not hand on with his various motor accessory shops. Fr Molloy had walked in eyes closed to a family that spend big but who's finances were in a mess. He probably did not know the extent of the financial problems of the Flynn family. He more than likly had been spun a story that the money was for investment not for what looks like day to day spending. When the land could not be transferred to him he required his money back. For the Flynn's, if Fr Molloy went to court to recover his money there would be a judgment against them. That would bring the tower tumbling down and other debtors would line up fast.
Slava Ukrainii
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The question would be was the land commission probable problem kept from fr Molloy so that a larger money deposit could be secured on the land sale on the pretence of a straight forward sale going forward...it would've been madness to purchase land with this type of incumbrance.... maybe the Flynn's may have sold that land well before this on the open market if they had been able to but owing to LC clause..they couldn't.....as both Richard and Therese were both from Galway...how come they had a 400 acre farm in tubber co Offaly/Westmeath...did they purchase that.
Post edited by cap.in.hand. on0 -
From what i read Fr Molloy knew about the land commission possible veto.
It was a massive deposit to give when there was this probable problem and if he received advice on this then it was very dodgy
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The sale of any farmland had to be approved by the Land Commission up to 1999 when it was abolished. The deposit was I think 50% of the overall sale price. As I read the reports the deposit was £24,000 and Niall Molloy & Theresa Flynn (who traded land and horses) were buying the land from Richard Flynn. As it was the marital home in theory the home and land was owned by both Flynns. I think Molloy must have been presented with some story to agree to such a high deposit. In the mid 1970s was an acre of land worth at best £1,000 ? Now £400,000 in the mid 1970s is perhaps €2 million now but Kilcoursey was a very large house, with very heavy running costs and if the various businesses lost money you can see how they could have run down their net worth. If land back then was only £500 or £750 an acre the point just made stands even more.
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maybe he felt even more cheated watching them splash out big on a wedding when he was trying to get repaid.
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Possibly but he doesn't seem to have been the type to lose his head.
Still wonder about the decision that lead to a well-connected and independently wealthy priest ending up in a small rural parish in Roscommon, his doubts over his vocation and his planned leaving the priesthood.
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Presume being in a small rural parish allowed him to spend half the week in Kilcoursey with the horses ? That might have been the attraction + fact he was from outside Roscommon town.
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There is no evidence to say that Fr Molloy 'lost the head' - remember he did not fight back. I would think he set out how he felt about the situation and that he wanted the money back. Its the Flynns and whoever else was there that 'lost their heads'.
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It must have being part of a big estate in that area that the land commission took it over and divided by them,they may have been continuing payment due to the land commission that they wouldn't allow part disposal.
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This is something I never knew....
"At 1.40am, Richard Flynn’s son David and his wife Ann arrived, having driven from their own home in Tober, Co Offaly. A local doctor arrived at 2am. He confirmed the priest was dead"
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40695221.html
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Having looked into it a bit more this is my conclusion - Mrs Flynn was having it off with fr Molloy and mr Flynn accepted this, possibly to keep the marriage intact and avoid scandal, even giving the priest his own quarters in the house (if they are going to be going at it, best to do it out of public gaze) but I think either someone found out or perhaps the church wanted it to be ended or fr Molloy or Mrs Flynn wanted to end it but either way, the jig was up (which is why fr Molloy told his buddy that he was thinking of retiring) so he either wanted Mrs Flynn to go with him or wanted his money out so he could leg it but Mrs Flynn refused and with the commotion Flynn’s son came into the room found his mother and the priest fighting and proceeded to knock the sh1t out of the priest, thought he had killed him, the mother was hysterical because her son has killed her lover, the father took the rap and got off because his mate was the judge... could you imagine these days if a priest had his own room in the house of a married couple, imagine your next door neighbor had a priest crash in their box room... and that priest was only ever seen with the wife, you would put the petrol money on it being an affair
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'Auntie May' and the groom that Therese Flynn and Fr Molloy employed also lived in the house. By the standards of 2021 its next to bizarre to have a live in priest. However in 1985 it was a different world. The pair had a business together that involved Fr Molloy checking on the horses. If he drove there after commitments in his parish he did not always/ was unable to drive home regardless of his alleged sex life. Sharon Lawless the producer of tonight's documentary has said on a podcast she could find not the slightest evidence of an affair. The starting point with the 'affair' stories was because the priest was found in the couples bedroom. That said in David Flynn's interviews in 2012/2013 as per McGinn report he said they were in many ways closer than a married couple.
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David and his wife were more than likely summoned to establish 'the story' when Fr. Molloy was already near death.
Locals reported people scattering from the property shortly before 11pm. The time on the broken watch face was around 10:40. There were also reports of phone calls made to the family solicitor before the priest was called. There was never a proper investigation into these reports and the gardai manufactured three statements to establish that the watch was not broken at the time the body was in the morgue. Two statements that said the watch was broken were withheld and later found by the Today Tonight investigation.
From the preview of the second part of the documentary it looks like the focus will be on the forensics of the bedroom scene. Given the facts that are known about how the body was found, it's easy to conclude that the scene was staged. Forensic evidence showed that the body had been dragged across carpet (carpet fibre was found on the back of the trousers and shoes). The placement of the arms and the way the shirt was untucked from the back of his trousers is consistent with somebody holding him under the arms and trying to drag him towards the door. That evidence points to somebody working without assistance to move Fr. Molloy.
I can think of two scenarios for why the body was moved in this manner.
Somebody, possibly David, tried to move Fr. Molloy in an effort to save him but it was too late. He left the body on the floor when the priest took his last breath - It sounds a bit Hollywood but some variation of this happening would explain David's public statement and also the change in his relationship with his mother afterwards.
An alternative scenario is much darker. After Fr. Molloy was beaten to death there was an attempt to clean the blood stains in the room. The Today Tonight review of the scene in the bedroom made mention of cleaning products and smudging of the blood stain on a portion of the carpet. Ever read the fine print on the cleaning products? It says to always try the product on a small area before lashing in to the larger part of the stain. Blood is not easily cleaned away and it became apparent that they couldn't just disappear the body. If the blood wasn't all over the carpet then the body could have been moved and perhaps an accident staged elsewhere. A kick from a horse could account for a severe head injury or if a car crash were to be staged would anyone have been any the wiser? It sounds like a Taggart episode but given what happened afterwards it wouldn't surprise me to learn the Flynn family were capable of doing something like this.
Thinking about it now, the darker scenario could have been Plan A and when it became apparent that it wouldn't work David was summoned to establish the family story. This would explain how the Flynn accounts of the timeline for the evening contradict those of independent witnesses. David could have tried to move Fr. Molloy but it was already too late at that stage. In the process of trying to move the body he made himself an accessory and his DNA could possibly be found on both the body and clothing.
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There is the appearance that members of the wedding party who were in Whites pub had an 'alibi' of sorts as they were said to have been in the pub up until midnight. There is a discussion earlier in the thread as to how much weight should be placed on the 1987 Today Tonight documentary which says the pub closed at 10pm that night. I am in the hands of people of a certain age (who went to Midlands pubs or even better Whites pub) in 1985- would the local sergeant have turned a blind eye to 1/2hr or an 1 hr over official closing time ? Is there a suggestion it was the 'wild west' and pubs pleased themselves then and the part in Today Tonight, to the contrary, is just as it did no one any good to say there was a lock in in the pub ?
As the time line offered by the Flynns is generally 'inaccurate' I don't think any strong conclusions can be made one way or the other as to between 930-2am who was where. Who we are told was where, and when is not generally 'accurate' and therefore with Whites Pub- Tober- Kilcoursey house all being within 3 miles of one another- there is plenty of opportunity for someone to have been in Kilcoursey when they were later said to be in Whites pub/ Tober etc.
I'm a bit lost as to the immediate last comment about the relationship between David Flynn and his mother it somehow reads that it changed as he turned up at Kilcoursey and tried to revive Fr Molloy ? There are other more obvious reasons it may have changed.
Keeping with David Flynn it is hard to discredit the idea that all of the Flynn children know more about that night then we have been told. But his remarks outside the inquest have perhaps been over blown. The question to him is something like ' it must be difficult as there have been a lot of rumours.' He then says ' yes and especially when you can't talk about some of the things you know.' A more innocent explanation for this might be if he knew (say) something about his mother or Fr Molloy such that it meant they were not sexually active at that time. By the standards of 1985 might that have counted as ' something you can't talk about.' Various surgery etc might mean someone may be unable to be sexually active for 6-12 months. Now there might not have been some big discussion about any of this but where Maureen Flynn/ Parkes was a nurse you just needed some remark re some surgery or medical treatment amongst the children ' not as bad for a priest' or ' Dad will be grumpy for a few months due to Mum's xxx.' The issue about money didn't fully get canvassed at the trial or the inquest- surely most of the gossip then was about alleged sex ?
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leaving aside the obvious question of who killed Fr Molloy and why,
- Why was the change in relationship between Theresa Flynn and her son documented - what significance is there to that - ie moved from one of Mother and son to “professional and businesslike” - that’s just weird and it raises more questions than it answers and allows for a whole heap of speculation as we’ve seen in this thread
- Why no medical assistance called such as 999? Surely there was regret soon after the “fight”? Or did Fr Molloy threaten something so terrible or some truth was revealed so terrible that someone saw fit to leave him to die? True people assault others over money- but leaving someone to die after the initial attack- and when you know them? How could leaving them to die make things any better? And if there were more than just 3 people present then why did one of the others not pick up the phone?
- why was Fr Molloy considering retirement from priesthood? I don’t believe his debts owed to him and him considering leaving the priesthood are necessarily connected or if they are, only in an indirect way
- What was it that Fr Molloy wasn’t looking forward to that weekend?
I don’t think we’ll ever have answers to any of those questions no less, who killed Fr Molloy and why?
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Likely Fr Molloy remained a man of some means he just as would most wanted what others have said in this post was the equivalent of a quite good year's salary back. On the retirement point- as nice a man as everyone seems to say he was - he'd been a priest for 25 years. Maybe on one level he was bored with it. He seemed to spend half the week on non church work in Kilcoursey. Any youthful whim of being a Cardinal or whatever had probably faded at that point. Might not have lost his faith- but what else was there to do after 10 years in the same parish when he perhaps could afford to retire earlier than some of his clerical peers ?
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On the question on fr Molloy not looking forward to that weekend.... would telling Therese Flynn that the partnership would be coming to a end...would she lose her temper at that time and demand the reason why...she was a pretty stern looking woman in any photos of them.
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