Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941632#Comment_117941632

It must have been a very small bus.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941632#Comment_117941632

Such one off examples are far from informative, in what I said then that parade would be fine and if what you say about the catholics is truthful, then the SF supporters would be the people in the wrong. Its certainly not what is been talked about here and is far from useful in clarifying anything really.

Fortunately the Parades Commission has done its job and defanged most of the more provocative marches rendering it mostly a none issue where orange Men can have their fun in peace.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940995#Comment_117940995

It's absurd because you can't promote (increase) diversity with a Monoculture. It's diametrically opposed to diversity.

If something causes conflict then stop doing it, or change how you do it. It isn't a complex concept.

The vast majority of parades are relatively trouble free. You'd have to go out of your way to find one that's causes conflicts.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941934#Comment_117941934

Well it seems we are all in agreement then. My questions came out of posters saying that OO always try and offend and deliberately go where they are not wanted.

i agree you have to go out of your way to find a OO parade which causes trouble. Thankfully that’s the case for most cultural stuff on both sides here.

I still think it’s a rediculous measure - to stop doing something because some anti diversity people don’t want you there. If we did that then the kids would have stopped walking to Holy Cross school

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942047#Comment_117942047

Reading up on your example of the Killowen OO diverting a parade was an act of self-preservation because they knew they would not be able to control a disply of triumphalism at the spot where a catholic man from the nearby catholic estate was murdered by loyalists the month before. This man was murdered by a group of loyalists who came from the other side of town in a show of triumphalism for Rangers beating Celtic and winning the league in 2009. The catholic man (married to a protestant) had gone out to find his kids to bring them home because of the loyalist attack.

In those circumstances it was very wise of the Killowen OO to divert away from the catholic estate.

Why did you not fill in this part of the background information? I'd imagine there are similar back stories to your own home town that you feign innocence about!

votecounts

You have to ask yourself the question why Loyalists want to march through predominantly Nationalist areas. The answer is to antagonize that community.

I really wish that Unionists would get a bit of cop on and also stop burning tricolors, placards, etc. Anyone who says that Nationalists don't have a problem with these acts of bigotry is deluded or are making stuff up.

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942179#Comment_117942179

DC only tells the part of the story that suits his narrative

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942316#Comment_117942316

And always has "some people he talked to backing him up".

Ide say if we were chatting about Boko Haram he could pull up the time last week he chatted to a few rebel soldiers about the situation

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942047#Comment_117942047

I think we are all in agreement you deliberately go out of your way to find ridiculous conflict. Then justify it with myopic and insular logic.

Rather than a shared history you are utterly focused on division and political point scoring. I expect that was MDH issue with this whole event.

Junkyard Tom

Imagine trying to make the argument that not welcoming a sectarian bigot-fest is rejecting diversity. As I've written a number of times, the self-declared 'moderate' DC does a wonderful job of exposing what our people, in the northeast of the country, have been putting up with for generations.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942179#Comment_117942179

My goodness me.

get with the project.

i was asked if orange ever rerouted to avoid conflict.

now you want to start a whole new debate and we are massively off topic already.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942483#Comment_117942483

Haha. You sound like the shinners who were blocking the parade in my town with your “I think we are all in agreement”. What gives you the right to make an assertion like that?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942343#Comment_117942343

I definitely know some rebel soldiers and yes, some of their atrocities boko haram would be proud of

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943164#Comment_117943164

Its your phrase...."Well it seems we are all in agreement then".

So you reckon you sound like a shinner...

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943718#Comment_117943718

Absolutely. And I do. The local shinners councillor and me have had many a pint and deep political chat together. Indeed I have even taken him to a OWC game at Windsor and been to a GAA game with him

so don’t try to put me in one of your sad little boxes.

I believe in respect and yes, it frustrates me that some try to trail the unionist parading culture through the mud. That is mainly those who paint it all as aggressive coat trailing, but also this minority within it who seem to enjoy coat trailing.

kilkeel shows how it should be done. A town centre that is 90% Protestant and yet there are several nationalist/republican band parades right through its centre every year.

there were difficulties last century but I don’t think a local has said a unfriendly word to them during the hundreds of parades this century. And yes I get that it hurts as many locals lost friends and relatives at the hands of some on parade. But the majority on the parade a good decent catholics who just want to celebrate their culture and this should not be prevented just because the ira use the events to glorify their killers.

I think it is excellent that local catholics can feel it is their town as well.

is there any of you hoe think the local unionist population should prevent nationalist parading?

Flinty997

If you think its a sad little box why did you say it to me, and be upset when I say it back.

There is a parades commission to decide what should go ahead and a police force to enforce it.

Do you ever google the parades in these areas before you post comments about it. I think you should.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944235#Comment_117944235

The parade I quoted is in my local area so I don’t need to google it. What are you implying? And why imply and nog just say?

concious this continues off topic.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943155#Comment_117943155

I don't think they were trying to avoid conflict there. More like avoiding very bad PR for the OO if you have marchers misbehaving at a site where someone was murdered a few weeks previously. It was also in the interests of the men involved because they would have been unlikely to get off with manslaughter if they were seen being triumphalist at the scene of the murder on the OO parade.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943886#Comment_117943886

How many is several? I note that Cain says that the ratio of loyalist/republican marches is 9:1 in favour of loyalists and loyalist marches are increasing.

blanch152

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/09/25/history-can-light-the-way-but-its-what-we-bring-to-the-question-today-that-really-matters/#more-137743

Excellent article on Michael D and partition in Slugger.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945027#Comment_117945027

I don’t know exact number. I’ll say at least 6 nationalist/republican parades through this 90% unionist town centre every year.

if you think I’ve exaggerated then just say and I will get you the facts.

I am not surprised by 9:1 given that it is steeped in unionist culture.

I reckon fleadhs are more than 100:1 in favour of nationalists

FrancieBrady

Michael D's considered decision not to attend this event has brought Unionism's attempt to diminish partition and what they did with partition to a juddering halt and not before time.

Like Charlie Flanagan, Leo and partitionists found out with the Black and Tan shambles - the vast majority of Irish people (almost 90% if polls are to be believed) while accepting it was done, will have no truck with vindicating what was done.

There will be no whitewashing to save Unionist or British blushes.

I have said it before and this episode convinces me even more, this is why Unionism/partitionism fears a border poll, they know that when it comes to a vote the majority here will not refuse the chance to end what has been a toxic and failed partition.

Flinty997

I can't find recent stats easily. Found this...

The Police Service of Northern Ireland uses different statistics, and recorded a total of 2863 parades in 2007. Of these, 2270 were loyalist, 144 nationalist, and 449 neither. Four of these were illegal and of these three were nationalist. 45 parades were re-routed, of which all but two (one nationalist, one other) were loyalist, and 78 parades had other conditions imposed, of which 70 were loyalist, 7 nationalist and one neither. Disorder occurred at just ten parades, of which nine were loyalist and one nationalist. This is a significant decline from previous years; in 2005 disorder was recorded at 34 parades.

Important to note its old data and may not be reflective recent statistics.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945737#Comment_117945737

Why is it excellent.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945896#Comment_117945896

The OO attempted to get the Garvaghy Rd march back when Unionism had a little bit of power with Theresa May. Which calls bullshit on claims that the OO don't try to go where they are not wanted. If they were let they would.

There is still a need for the Parades Commission in light of this. Good to see talk of a similar Bonfires 'commission' to clean up the toxic (on many levels) parts of that bit of Orange/Loyalist culture, as they don't seem to want to do it themselves.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945927#Comment_117945927

Probably because he agrees with it. Seems to be the only barometer for "excellence" for some these days.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944712#Comment_117944712

Your anecdotes are sadly lacking in accuracy, when fact checked.

If it was up to me I'd ban all parades and bonfires from both sides.

I'm aware that this would cause huge public disorder, which is probably one of the many reasons it's not up to me.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945892#Comment_117945892

Democracy at work.

the Irish parliament votes to allow self determination for the north. Then republicans spend 100 years blaming the big bad brits for it, MDH regrets what his parliament voted for and francie supports him.

guys don’t vote for stuff you don’t want. That’s the lesson.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945962#Comment_117945962

Some excellent take downs of Fealty's predictable, 'the Irish are wrong, Unionism is terribly misunderstood' whinge, in the comment section.