Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958080#Comment_117958080

I don't know if it was this estate was the problem, but I do recall that while the outward parade went fine, the coming back was a problem because the paraders were all pissed up and looking for trouble and diverting the parade on the way back was what was causing loyalist protests.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958202#Comment_117958202

You are being a little dramatic. Of course an ambulance can get in. They make their way though parades all the time.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959757#Comment_117959757

Except when they can't. Still waiting for you to point out one of the endless number of roads they can take that bypasses the parade.

Just the sound of crickets and the death rattle of your soundly defeated arguments desperately clinging on with ever increasing pedantry and deflection away from your initial point.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959816#Comment_117959816

So I hope the one thing you have learnt about me on here is I try to be honest and real.

so this certainly is an unusual situation where residents do not have other roads linking in to them. I didn’t expect that and I was clearly wrong about this little enclave having ‘many other roads’. So hands up and I retract that

these people clearly are not ‘trapped in their houses’. That would never happen for all sorts of safety reasons.

the bottom line is that their problem was not that they couldn’t exit their estate for 7 minutes (and they could), but rather it’s because it is prods parading. There are much smaller loyalist areas in exactly the same position for much longer parades and it doesn’t annoy them. Therefore this is a cultural dispute. If it was a st Patrick’s parade going down the road it wouldn’t cause these residents a thought. So let’s be more real about the issue. It isn’t about access, it’s about dirty prods!

lurleen lumpkin

'So I hope the one thing you have learnt about me on here is I try to be honest and real.'

I'd imagine most of us stopped reading after this bit.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960357#Comment_117960357

The difference is perceived intent. It always was trumpalism with Orange Parades so why is anyone expected to believe that their intent has changed ??

St.Patricks parades are all about celebrating Irishness and they are above all joyous celebrations welcomed just about anywhere they take place (including England).

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960357#Comment_117960357

I've already said I'd have no problem with an Orange parade through Derry or Newry Town centres, so you can drop that, 'dirty prods' nonsense.....particularly given that I have enough of them in my family (as I've mentioned before, my surname is on the Ulster covenant, I have family in the Orange, though not anywhere near the controversial routes).

The fact that you write a post acknowledging that you were completely and utterly unequivocally wrong.....and STILL want to blame it on those pesky Taig residents, well that says more about you than anyone else in this conversation.

This is an interesting one. I don't know of this parade specifically, but it reads like it has been re-routed not because its a nationalist area, but because its "a quiet mixed neighbourhood”.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/orange-lodge-condemns-parades-commission-belfast-centenary-parade-ruling-saying-it-creates-protestant-no-go-area-40907240.html

Final comments are interesting too “We call yet again for the Commissioners to resign, the Parades Commission to be disbanded and the relevant legislation retired." .... 'so we can get back to the business of walking where we're not wanted' obviously being the bit missed out.

votecounts

If they orangeman and political friends would concentrate on trying to make the protocol work rather tan marching where they are clearly not wanted, then NI would be a better place for both communities. But where is the unionist leadership, too busy signing pacts, etc

blanch152

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/oct/02/colm-toibin-will-the-brexit-fallout-lead-to-a-united-ireland

This is a really interesting article from Colm Toibin that reflects accurately the way that many people in the South think of Northern Ireland.

"In 1986, when I walked along the border in Ireland to write a book, I felt like a stranger much of the time in the north. Their hatreds were not mine, nor indeed their education system or their health service, not to speak of their police and the British army"

That remains true today. I do not have the hatred of unionists that is often displayed on these pages by extreme nationalists.

"Dismantling partition would be a most dangerous process.

Over the past 50 years the policy of the Dublin government has been consistent. Dublin wants stability in Northern Ireland. It does not want territory, or trouble. Keeping the border open is a way to avoid strife at the border. Supporting parity of esteem for Catholics is a way to make Catholics more confident and more at home in Northern Ireland."

This would also be my view. This is not the time to dismantle partition and possibly it should not happen for another 100 years at least.

Well Im hoping for the next 10-20 years to be honest. Once Scotland goes it's inevitable.

Shoog

Surprisingly a pact with an Independent Scotland might be a better path for NI, at least in the short term. Wean them off their illogical pact with the English (who they only have the archaic bowler hat in common with) and show them that there is a viable future outside of the UNION.

Speedline

The problem there, is Scotland wouldn't have the financial means by themselves to prop up NI. It would take the border out of the irish sea though.

Shoog

I suppose my point was that at least those in NI have a commonality of outlook with their ancestors in Scotland, probably more so than either the English or Southern Irish. I realize it may not be practical though.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968657#Comment_117968657

In other words, please endorse our desire to continue ignoring Irish people living in the north by denying them self determination.

The section of Colm's book A Walk A Long The Border in which he visited my town is a complete misrepresentation and exaggeration (why wouldn't he, he had a 'buke' to sell) and just anther in a long line of journalists/writers who feel the need to do that - 'bandit country' etc etc

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117970008#Comment_117970008

I feel certain that when he wrote it over 20 years ago it was probably fairly spot on. It was still bandit country and there was still smuggling/etc going on back then.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117970056#Comment_117970056

Tobin didn't use the 'bandit country' cliche, I just used it as a lazy trope/cliche journalists/writers use. But Toibin's assessment of what he was seeing in my town was completely off the mark and had the same elements of sensationalism and laziness.

And don't let it take form my main point, his comfort blanket of just wanting to go on ignoring the desires of Irish people as long as his world is not upset.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968753#Comment_117968753

I tend to agree with that. Once Scotland votes for independence as seems very likely in the near future I think Irish reunification will not be far behind.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975629#Comment_117975629

So Scotland shows the way to independence and Northern Ireland consequently gives up the chance of its own. I am confused by the logic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975838#Comment_117975838

Its called the domino effect. If Scotland leaves the UK then NI is left like that sad little piece of Russia that isnt connected to Russia. NI would have a land border and a sea link with 2 EU countries and only direct air links to the rest of the UK. Psychologically cut off.

Junkyard Tom

The North isn't a country it's a part of a country, that is Ireland, where an historic conflict has been frozen, the way to unfreeze this conflict is unification of our country. The partitionists and unionists don't want to unfreeze the conflict in the northeast of Ireland, they want to fossilise it.

They will fail.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969307#Comment_117969307

Why not, they subsidise England...

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977343#Comment_117977343

It's grand, BoJo will just build a bridge from Belfast, through the Isle of Man and on to Blackpool.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975911#Comment_117975911

That logic doesn't lead to a united Ireland, it leads to an independent Northern Ireland, member of both the EU and the Commonwealth.

You are saying that if apples fall downwards from a tree, oranges will jump upwards. Surely if apples fall downwards, then so will oranges (excuse the pun on oranges!).

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978749#Comment_117978749

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/09/30/what-does-the-rise-of-the-non-religious-in-n-ireland-mean-for-politics-here/

I know you and others try to prolong the conflict, but the signs are there that modern young Northern Irish people are leaving it behind. You are even referenced in this article, see piece in bold:

"Achieving cultural change is notoriously difficult, often something that takes one or two generations to become properly established. Are we now entering a new period, the post-GFA age? Are we gradually becoming secularised and non-religious? Of course, there are plenty from previous generations who would doubt this, and who simply don’t want this to happen. Yet such change can occur so gradually that it’s almost invisible until it hits us. It does look as if this is the trend here; the obvious question is whether this will continue, or whether we have reached a plateau."

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979835#Comment_117979835

You've still yet to address the issues regarding your solution's compatibility with the GFA, Blanch. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked you about this, but for all your bluster about Unification plans not being presented with full economic assessment, you haven't even presented how you propose getting past the first hurdle with your solution.

That's even if we ignore the fact that NI independence has always been a fringe idea with pretty much single figure support in NI, and the GFA still enjoys huge support. Is it only democracy when it suits for you?

hawley

Yet his recent behaviour has had an utterly toxic effect on relationships between nationalists and unionists in this centenary year. It has forced hidden hatreds into the open and delivered yet another probably fatal blow to United Irelanders.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards-the-bigotry-of-michael-d-higgins-shocked-some-im-sad-to-say-i-wasnt-one-3407302%3famp

Interesting article from a Unionist perspective. Michael Higgins has helped sow more division with his actions. He lied about his reasons for missing the service and then he is lauded by the Irish press and political class. He is seen as a bigot by people in Northern Ireland. The article is written by someone who grew up in a Nationalist house.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979835#Comment_117979835

Similar to political representation for continued partition, independence won't happen for NI until there is political representation for it.

Unless you are thinking of imposing independence as a last stop gasp against unification?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980384#Comment_117980384

Ruth Dudley, the open armed colossus of reconciliation. 😁😁😁

noelfirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980384#Comment_117980384

Dudders, the archtype 'satellite commentator' swings into view again. Hard pass, thanks. Her views are as useful as a superfluous third nipple.