Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079680#Comment_118079680

Mate...you literally claimed holding a poll was umdemocratic....no lies being pedeled here,only yous attempt to gaslight and unwilling to stand over yous word

Mate,the link yous posted earlier as proof of your position openly states cat to be largest group at next census.....your all over the place🤣🤣🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079723#Comment_118079723

It is widely expected to be cat highest this census....quite why yous need to resort to silly reductive arguements and compare with 1500s,just shows up yous conceited nature surronding democracy to further your attempt to protray holding a border poll as undemocratic

Only one poster on this thread demanding people not be allowed have their say on this issue at ballot box,no amount reductive spinning is going to change these fact

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080120#Comment_118080120

The likely coming independence of Scotland is another consequence of brexit and also will IMHO hasten Irish reunification.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080120#Comment_118080120

Its difficult to believe partionists honestly want to force through a ni state,this has been tried and failed utterly

They are like the commies now...."durr this time,it will be different"🤪

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078598#Comment_118078598

"We have no power to change it"

The people of Ireland can vote to change partition by the GFA.

It takes Both the North and South to agree by the GFA. If you say people in the South have no power to change then equally people in the North have no power to change it by a reciprocal argument. You seem to think it is only up to the people of the North to change partition but it infact by the GFA it needs all Irish people to agree to UI.

Brucie Bonus

Fact is pre GFA we'd no avenue to a united Ireland. The GFA has given us one and is agreed upon by all players.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080645#Comment_118080645

Always with a label for someone. There are constraints on the SoS, the Court clearly said so, you linked to it yourself.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081023#Comment_118081023

Which part of "widely expected" is not a "fact" are you failing to understand. You have been posting for a day or so now, claiming that the facts show that there is a Catholic majority. Now you are reduced to claiming that it is only "widely expected" (and haven't produced any evidence to show this, and remember you used the word "widely", I didn't put it in your mouth), and you still expect credibility.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080902#Comment_118080902

Once again, we have people telling others that they can't have the identity they assume for themselves. Women, travellers, lesbians, etc. have all faced this attitude of being told that they can't have the identity they choose. You are just another in a long long list of those with a similar exclusionary attitude.

The specific NI identity is hated by both sides of the dirty sectarian coin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081606#Comment_118081606

So your are rejecting the census results?

Fair.play....not happy with pissing over democracy,now you have discounted any/all.metrics including census......looks to me,you goys anti-democratic reign has run out....even.communism eventually fell away to democracy

Do you think there should be a border poll held before st,patricks day,and if not,why not?....i mean like,every commentator imcluding many unionists concede this fact as likely,only utterly blinded by partisan partionists try to gaslight the public....didnt you used claim.black and tans werent part of ric?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081596#Comment_118081596

Back to the actual text we go that rubbishes your projecting again. There may well be constraints on a SoS but not in how he/she forms an opinion as to when or whether to call a BP.

[18] In the present case the Secretary of State is given a discretionary power to order a border poll under Schedule 1 paragraph 1 even where she is not of the view that it is likely that the majority of voters would vote for Northern Ireland to cease to be part of the United Kingdom and to become part of a united Ireland. Under paragraph 2 she is subject to a duty to call a border poll “if at any time it appears to her” that a majority would be likely to vote in favour of leaving the United Kingdom and joining a united Ireland. The discretionary power as opposed to the mandatory duty to call a poll could be exercised by the Secretary of State for a number of different reasons and in different circumstances. For example, the Secretary of State could call a poll in order to give a quietus to the controversial question of a united Ireland for a period of time if she thinks that a majority would vote in favour of remaining in the United Kingdom. She could direct such a poll if there was a doubt in her mind as to whether a majority was to be found on one side or the other. She could decide to call such a poll if persuaded by political representatives that it would be desirable to sound the people out on the issue or to close the issue for a number of years. The precise circumstances and the political context of a decision are variable and highly political. Decision-making in this area requires a political assessment on the part of the Secretary of State and in this context political flexibility and judgment are called for. In such a context I am wholly unpersuaded by the argument that the Secretary of State is to be bound by a policy detailing the way in which that flexible and politically sensitive power is bound to be exercised.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081625#Comment_118081625

The Northern Irish identity is two separate identities. You are in denial on this point.

It is not forming into a political push for an independent NI as a result and never will.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081031#Comment_118081031

Some people assume that a positive vote for reunification is a done deal down here in the Republic. That's not so and there's a lot of work to be done. Personally whilst I might like to see a UI, I wouldn't be voting for it unless there was a clear & substantial majority in favour of it up North. Not 51% like the Brexiteers were trumpeting as victory. It'd want to be more like 4:1 in favour at least.

That's why our President committed a mauvais pas as concerns this engagement. In doing so, he distanced the day of a substantial majority being in favour of a UI up North.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081895#Comment_118081895

It certainly is my opinion that brexit has hastened Irish reunification.

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081895#Comment_118081895

Well you are entitled to vote whichever way you want. That's democracy for you.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081918#Comment_118081918

The interesting question for the future is will Brexit hasten Irexit? That would bring the islands back closer together and we might regain the sense of dual nations under the GFA that has been riven by Brexit. It would promote the building of a common future out of which could well spring a common desire for a UI... There's always more ways than one to look at things. Brexit has brought division - the wrong direction.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081895#Comment_118081895

4:1? You might as well re-instate the Unionist veto.

Bizarre, how 'concerned citizens' are all over the GFA, trying to change it.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081895#Comment_118081895

I appreciate you seem to really want to be sure but 4 to 1 is simply ridiculous. You'd be happy if a clear majority wanted a UI not getting it because it was only 2 to 1 in favour seems rather silly.

Our president had a duty to act in a manner that respects his position and the Irish, which he did IMO and it turned out the majority by far supported his decision. He declined the invite to the mass and was polite about it. With events including a commemoration for the B Specials he was right not to add our name to that bigotted **** show.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081000#Comment_118081000

i completely agree, it is clear that britain is unwilling to look out for the interests of the people of NI, and it is becoming clear to those there who thought otherwise, that it was always the case that britain never really cared about the interests of the people.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081036#Comment_118081036

nothing surprises me where such individuals are concerned.

so desperate not to see and have it shown to them that their ideology is a failure that they will just go around in circles trying to uphold that failure.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081625#Comment_118081625

it would have to exist in the first place to be hated.

it doesn't, so therefore it isn't, that's not exclusionary, but simple reality.

the NI identity is an identity created by southerners who want to keep partition and who have a greater affiliation to britain then their home country.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081946#Comment_118081946

unlikely given brexit is a failure, ireland has had a much better standard of everything being part of the EU then it ever could or would under the UK, and there is no wish for anything more then the current relationship we have with the UK, which was mostly fine until the current shouer of dimbots got into power.

the majority of us do not want the type of relationship with the UK that you would like because it would not work out for us.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079005#Comment_118079005

Figures that have not been released or published?

How the **** can I reject or accept something that does not exist? Cop on FFS!

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078999#Comment_118078999

Oh, there is, there is lots of polling to suggest this would happen.

There are numerous examples of such referendums around the world, e,g, in Scotland where people who are undecided or on the fence will break into the 'keep things as they are and see how it pans out' camp.

See NI is part of the UK right now, like yesterday and tomorrow.

People will need to convince these people in the North, especially this 3rd block who do not identify themselves as Catholic or Protestant that their lives will be better served by leaving the UK and joining a UI. This is a very very hard task, as it's ALWAYS easier to argue for the status quo.

I know it makes hard reading but it is what is it. Dreamy-eyed visions of a UI are just that, a dream.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079101#Comment_118079101

Interesting you see one as occupants and another as occupiers.... That says it all. The old sectarian head in ya coming out again.

I see you ignored the latest trend of people who neither identify as British or Irish but identify as Northern Irish.... inconvenient for you fo course.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083210#Comment_118083210

😁 What are these 3 blocks Mark? Are you having a wee sectarian moment there?

The 3 Identities are 'Irish - British - Northern Irish.

Are you saying all those who identify as British are Protestant? All those who are Irish are Catholic and all those who identify as NI are neither?

Way out on a limb on that one!!!!

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083216#Comment_118083216

Northern Irish is Irish. Who is the patron Saint of the Irish? Who is the Patron Saint of the northern Irish or southern Irish or any other adjective you want to put before Irish. Any whiskey produced in the North will have Irish whiskey on the bottle.

You can't infer because a person says they're northern Irish that they dont want a UI or they denying that they are irish. Perhaps they are politcaly neutral and are saying they live in the part of Ireland that is within the UK.

The North runs a 25% defcit 2019 before covid. It funny how partitionists say an UI is not economically viable when an all Ireland economy ran a 3.5% defcit in 2019 but an independent NI with a 25% deficit is possible.

What happens when there is no London to keep things moving when one party in the North collapses stormont? If there was an independent NI everyone there would be driving down the M1 to Dublin on their daily commute.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083216#Comment_118083216

'Latest trend'? Do tell? The Northern Irish identity is around a long time. Research shows it fluctuates and responds to political events and actions. This 'latest trend' is just one of those fluctuations in a time of political turmoil.

Have you done any research into it or are you just going to project your partitionist fantasy onto it.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083224#Comment_118083224

Its you that continue with the bigoted and sectarian outlook on life in Northern Ireland.

This has already been posted numerous times, but ill post it again.

In the last census, held in 2011, 45.1% of the population specified that they were Catholic or brought up Catholic, and 48.4% were from a Protestant or other Christian background. However, the results of the new national identity question were more complicated: 39.9% considered themselves British only, 25.3% Irish only, 20.9% Northern Irish only, with others specifying multiple national identities

As it says, its a bit more complicated than Green vs Orange or Catholic vs Protestant. The old sectarian headcount is just that, old and sectarian. Those that push for political purposes are IMO sectarian.

markodaly

To add to my last post, this has also been published here.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/10/26/the-emergence-of-a-middle-ground/

There is a growing nonreligious element in Northern Ireland.

Put simply the demographic inevitability of a Catholic majority is now dead.