Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915442#Comment_117915442

free reign to ask questions? that seems to be what your issue with it.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915503#Comment_117915503

Sadly it does not tell me enough. It is your opinion that it was fine for 4 years. I wasn't on the CT forum at the time of the 2015 charter, so I can't say that. I can't see additional benefits of the 2015 charter. If people who want it can't identify the benefits then there must be none. If you want to get people on board then the benefits should be identified and focused upon.

robinph

> I mean if a “Great Reset” isn’t a “plan” then I don’t what what the hell is.

But it's not a plan, its just topic for discussion from the WEF bouncing ideas around. Nothing about it being a plan.

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915494#Comment_117915494

This is the feedback forum not the conspiracy forum so let’s not go down that road. The fact of the matter is posters have given lots of examples of what they think the great reset may be, while linking to things the WEF, Davis, world leaders have said etc. Problem is no amount of “evidence” is good enough for them, they will constantly demand more and more when they know no such evidence exists, it’s a THEORY at the end of the day, especially considering many of these THEORIES are about clandestine activities and information about them will obviously not be in the public domain.

anyone neutral observer will read that forum and see exactly what I mean. It’s not done in good faith or for good discussion.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915525#Comment_117915525

If you think that is the issue you are not spending much time there I guess.

Simple question ...Was it allowed to ask questions with the original charter in place ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915558#Comment_117915558

I would appreciate if you did not describe my posts as "not in good faith".

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915547#Comment_117915547

Sadly it is the answer you have to deal with I leave the jumping to conclusions when you were not even a poster then to yourself

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915573#Comment_117915573

another simple question: what does reverting to the previous charter achieve? It is has been that way for 2 years.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915589#Comment_117915589

Nothing can be identified as being better under the old charter, so this thread is moot.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915573#Comment_117915573

Do you have the original charter? Or are you opining that the 2015 one is that?

And if we go back to the 2015 charter? Any CT must be met with evidenced counter-argument, so at any point of that interaction a poster could report a question as not meeting the requirements for counter-argument.

In any case, if something can be claimed without a cogent, evidential or inferential basis? It can be dismissed without any.

It's a means of ensuring a level playing field. A conspiracy theory does not confer a right to protected speech.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915612#Comment_117915612

This is not the answer a question with a question forum ... perfect example of the current state of engagement in the CT forum though

So I try again: Was it allowed to ask questions with the original charter in place ?

And if you actually read through my posts from the last half hour your question is answered there

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915612#Comment_117915612

Simple question, but there is no answer from CT's to it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915631#Comment_117915631

and here we go with "i've already answered that question, you need to go trawl through my posts to find it". no intention of wasting my time.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915622#Comment_117915622

Noted ...Why do you feel the urge to post in a thread you find moot ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915642#Comment_117915642

well you wouldn't want it to be echo chamber would you? would you?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915642#Comment_117915642

People are trying to change a charter of a forum that I post in without displaying a single benefit for the change. The change will negatively impact the way the forum operates and stifle discussion. While this thread is moot, changing to something with no benefits is not moot.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915624#Comment_117915624

The charter, users, mods, cmods, and admin crafted together after a lengthy feedback process which was implemented in 2015

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915624#Comment_117915624

It also leaves anyone sceptical of the claims needing to prove a negative (see Russell's Teapot).

CT-er: "The great reset is under way! COVID is part of the plan!"

Sceptic: "Any evidence for this?"

CT-er: "Don't need it mate - you have to prove me wrong."

Sceptic: "Erm...that's sort of...impossible"

CT-er: "I wiin!" (Does a little victory dance.)

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915655#Comment_117915655

So it's not the original charter? Not the one that ran for 10yrs prior to 2015?

And the rest of my post? I made a stab at answering your question re: questions.

Any chance you'd return the favour? Why should a CT op be afforded the position of protected speech and be free from a requirement to evidence their belief or hypothesis?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915573#Comment_117915573

Yes, but conspiracy theorists used the charter as an excuse to also dodge questions or points that they didn't want to address.

But most of the time it was not really enforced nor was it actually needed. This was partly because most skeptics were not asking for "proof" as outlined in the charter. They were asking for evidence aka "reasons to believe something". Conspiracy theorists often conflate the two.

It didn't do anything to improve the quality of debate, it only gave conspiracy theorists a more "justified" reason to not engage as opposed to the complete lack of a reason now.

At the same time, the charter if enforced as worded requires that any one trying to counter a conspiracy theory, regardless of how ridiculous it is, produce studies and proof. It shifts the burden away from those making claims to a ridiculous level. At the time, this was not enforced because it's so ridiculous. And this assumes that conspiracy theorists are proposing a set, definable theory. Using the Great Reset thread as an example, there's no way to provide evidence against something like that as we can't even tell what the conspiracy is on that thread.

And then that charter does nothing about the issues I previously raised that are still being ignored.

It does nothing to prevent conspiracy theorists proposing bad faith tactics like they have been. It does nothing to distinguish between valid and invalid conspiracy theories. It does nothing to actually help promote discussion.

It wasn't a great charter that was in practice not actually used except by those looking for an excuse to avoid questions and difficult points.

Your suggestion however is a good one and cuts out the need to ask the basic questions that most conspiracy theorists leave out of their initial points. If we don't have to ask those basic questions (and repeat them because they are being ignored) then this would promote discussion as long as conspiracy theorists actually engaged.

However I also think that your suggestion would dissuade the majority of conspiracy theorists from posting as most aren't actually able to answer all of those points about their own conspiracy and there are a good many to answer. I feel that sydthebeat's version was more concise and shorter and any additional information that's relevant to the discussion can be obtain by... ya know... asking.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915641#Comment_117915641

It started with a simple question to you which you still haven't answered ... But go ahead you are making a perfect case why the CT forum is broken ... No input from me needed.

If you would have the courtesy to answer my question and then ask a me a question you wouldnt feel so upset... It can also be expected you read a discussion you participate in, I am not here to spoon-feed you information I literally posted a few moments earlier responding to another person

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915691#Comment_117915691

you want a change to the forum charter. you can't explain why it would benefit the forum. can you not see the issue?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915681#Comment_117915681

And again, because it keeps needing to be pointed out:

Conspiracy theorists can just say "I have no evidence" or "I can't answer that question" or "I don't know" and the discussion can still continue.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915653#Comment_117915653

People are trying to revert the charter back to the way it was, Before a mod decided himself it didn't suit him.

Was discussion stiffled from 2015 to 2019 ? .... read over threads from that era and come back to me then

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915655#Comment_117915655

There seems to be a desperate scramble here to ensure the CT forum remains in it's typical sh***hole state

What does the "ignore" button do anyway and where can I find it? I'm sure the regulars in the conspiracy forum would despise a properly functioning ignore button as it would mean people wouldn't even see their insurmountable list of questions, let alone be compelled to answer them

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915711#Comment_117915711

you want to change the status quo without explaining why. A change was made 2 years ago. that is done. In the past. what is so terrible since the change that you want it reverted? you are the one proposing the change. the onus is on you to justify it.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915711#Comment_117915711

This is what you said to a previous poster: "If you would have the courtesy to answer my question and then ask a me a question you wouldnt feel so upset". The shoe is on the other foot now. You are asking me questions without having the decency to answer my simple one asking for the benefits of going back to a 2015 charter.

I already told you that I wasn't on the CT forum in that period. Therefore you should see me as a blanker canvas to get onside than others. If the previous charter was so brilliant, then identify what the benefits are.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915493#Comment_117915493

We had a post from one user outlining how a former moderator made changes to the charter unilaterally and gave free reign to one side of the aisle to set the agenda to suit themselves.

That is by any rational definition is not equitable.

I don't believe that anyone should have protection against being questioned, I also don't believe that putting either side at a disadvantage is fair.

Right now the charter leans in favor of the skeptical view point, where in reality it needs to be non partisan.

People who benefit from the current arrangement and take issue with the changes proposed by the other side of the aisle have every right to defend their position, but the problem lies in the fact that they themselves are currently in a protected position.

Neither side should be protected by the charter, the function of the charter should be to streamline the discussion not weight it in favor of one side.

For all the posters who are horrified by the charter changing, you're only saying that because you benefit from it now. Even agreeing to a middle ground is beyond you. Both sides are acting like spoilt children on this thread, time to grow up.and compromise.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915681#Comment_117915681

Of course not .... for me the original forum is from 2015 ...before that it was just a cesspit as it is now ...Hence the change was needed

A CT needs and poster needs some protection yes .. In line within the spirit of the forum. If you look at some of the responses made and the sate of the forum is now such a thing is much needed ... But leaping from the situation now to nothing can be questioned with the old charter re-implemented is frankly ridiculous.

Did you feel you couldn't post what you wanted from 2015 - 2019 ?

That fact was acknowledged by all the people contributing in making the forum in 2015

sydthebeat

are conspiracy therories the same today as they were in 2015.

well id have to argue that no, they are not. we now live in a 'post truth' era where scientific fact is seen as something that can be dismissed, ignored or undermined.

gemmaroids, qanon, trump, caption hill et al have shown that there is danger in unchallenged disinformation. Covid denying CTs cause real damage.

the advent and ease of access to social media by people who either inadvertently or deliberately question fact to be subversive / contrarian is in no way a good thing. there are vulnerable people out there who get caught up in these lies and their lives suffer for it.

These arent the fuzzy wuzzy "shure a child knows to take CTs with a pinch of salt" issues.. these are real life YOUR ELECTION IS BEING STOLEN, RISE UP AND FIGHT type issues which have real world consequences.

so i say that no, the 2015 charter is not fit for purpose right now. The charter as it stands right now probably isnt fit for purpose either, as it doesn't take the above point into account in my opinion.