Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

sydthebeat

Posters disappearing when their posts are proven as false is a very regular occurrence in that forum

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907354#Comment_117907354

My issue is that the forum is being subverted from its ostensible purpose of being a place to discuss the topic.

If the topic too inflammatory, too unpopular, too aggravating etc it doesn't follow that an open but nullified forum is a good compromise. It is self-cancelling and wastes the time of two sets of people (conspiracy theorists and anti-conspiracy positivists).

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907371#Comment_117907371

They often come back with a new username ;)

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907372#Comment_117907372

But the people who don’t want to discuss the topic are the ones that claim to believe in it. Look at any thread in it and you’ll see that.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907372#Comment_117907372

??

This feedback thread is created by one's who DON'T want to discuss topics.

They want an echo chamber where their views are not challenged.

Why I wonder?

Is it because they actually don't like their views challenged?

Just imagine if that privilege was demanded across all fora here......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907370#Comment_117907370

Well see now, you're just engaging in personal attacks.

Because I disagree vocally with conspiracy theorists I'm "flexing my ego"? And every poster who comes in believing a conspiracy theory are "good hearted"?

And again, yea, you're misrepresenting things. You keep saying that "I demand evidence" and "question every minute detail". That's not what I do. I ask the questions I pointed out to earlier and when statements of facts are made, I ask if there is evidence supporting them and/or provide counter evidence to that effect.

So again because the question still has not been answered:

If someone makes a statement of fact such as "X amount of people died". What do you believe should be an acceptable response if people are not allowed to ask for this fact to be supported?

Also, this is an oppertunity to point out another issue. I've asked that question 3 times now and it's not even been acknowledged.

What would be the appropriate response to something like this?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907313#Comment_117907313

If you go to any forum (football, history, etc) and you make a claim, you will be challenged in the same way.

In fact, other forums on boards are usually less tolerant and you could be kicked for making unfounded or outlandish claims. So the conspiracy theories forum already has a lot of leeway in that respect.

Posters are free to post their own conspiracies, I posted mine, got questions on it, I simply answered them when I could and didn't when I couldn't. I didn't try to change the charter to shelter my views from normal scrutiny, that would be absurd and goes against the basic premise of any discussion forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907372#Comment_117907372

Disagreeing with conspiracy theories, explaining why you don't believe them and asking people who do believe them about them is discussing the topic I'm afraid.

sydthebeat

We even have one poster in the CT thread who claims that the recent migration of the site to vanilla was done so that more posts per page were allowed in order to bury "valid" posts in CT threads....

That's the level that is being spewed over there.....

Carfacemandog

I would be fascinated to know what the OPs opinions on censorship, cancel culture and safe spaces.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907399#Comment_117907399

It was yourself who made it personal, accusing me of blatant misrepresentation. My interest here isn't to create an echo chamber, but merely to bring an end to the painstaking questioning of every minor thing. From a readers perspective, it's awful, and off putting. I get where you're coming from to a point, but it's overdone to the nth degree. And yes, it is apparent that you get some kind of smug satisfaction from doing it. Not everyone who leaves the forum is leaving because their views are challenged. Maybe, just maybe, they don't like the tone of the place, and perhaps thought there was more of a community spirit in it than there is.

I'm not getting drawn in to answering your question, I said why I'm posting here, I've little else to contribute, so that's all I have to say.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907372#Comment_117907372

No one is stopping a discussion from taking place though.

But.... this is usually how the discussion goes

CT: 1000 people died that day

Me: really? Can you provide a source for that because I heard it was much less.

CT: Do your own research.

Me: But you made the claim, I'm just asking for evidence to back up your claim

CT will then either

A. choose to ignore the request

B. Call me a steeple

C. Flounce off in a huff

D: Re reg and make the same claim.

Now please tell me what I did so bad in that hypothetical conversation that would warrant a charter change or the closing down of the forum?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907432#Comment_117907432

So would you agree then there is a high level of sinister posting and sinister real life impacts from certain topics ?

Would you have had a bunch of people standing outside Googles office with mega phones talking about lizard people 7 years ago ? How is that healthy... There are a minority of people making money out people that are for want of a better term ..more impressionable.

Carfacemandog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907324#Comment_117907324

And now Joe McCarron is apprently dead - https://mobile.twitter.com/joecraig79/status/1438985798003593227?s=21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907372#Comment_117907372

There's plenty of other places on the internet that you can go if you don't want to be challenged. The reality is that everything from great reset to covid conspiracies have actively been dangerous in the last two years. So I think it's great for people to post their theories but also great to see stuff countered. We're at a point where people are actively dying due to the theories, they absolutely need to be challenged.

If you can't counter the challenges, that simply calls into the credibility of your claim.

sydthebeat

Lol

Already two posters here have said

"I refuse to answer questions"

There, in a nut shell, is your standard CT poster

Homelander

Most of the stuff posted in the conspiracy theories thread is pathetically absurd that isn't even based on logical reasoning, it's just airy-fairy nonsense plucked out of thin air without the faintest shred of credible evidence let alone proof.

In fact most of them can be countered immediately with actual evidence and proof, most of them are the equivalent of 1+1=3, wake up people stop drinking the kool-aid.

There are credible conspiracy theories. Lots of them, and it's a fascinating topic.

However 90% of them - in general, not the forum - are utter drivel invented out of absolutely nothing and what's even worse, they are paraded around as fact rather than theory.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907443#Comment_117907443

That is so sad. I saw the so called "rescue video" and the poor man was confused and in obvious breathing distress.

I'm not sure if any laws were broken but the guy in the video was reprehensible, I just hope there is some comeback for his actions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907432#Comment_117907432

Sorry, no, accusing someone (accurately) or misrepresentation is not a personal attack. Everything in your post however is.

And you do illustrate my point, you've avoided the question I asked you for a 3rd time.

Should I just pretend you've answered it now? Should I just not bring up the point again because you don't want to discuss it?

Asking someone to provide the evidence for a factual claim is perfectly reasonable and accepted in most adult conversations. Asking for evidence for specific claims is not the same as demanding proof of the entire conspiracy.

We see examples of this all the time on the forum.

For instance a conspiracy theorist claims that 20 people died in an event and that this number proves there's a conspiracy. It's not unreasonable to ask them to show that this is the case, or at least why they believe that's the case. As is often times the case in conspiracy theories this claim might be at odds with accepted evidence and often times very very wrong.

So in the perfect conspiracy forum, what should be done here?

Are we allowed to ask for evidence to support the idea of 20 people dying?

Should we pretend as if 20 people died and that we are not allowed to question this because the OP said so?

Or does discussion just stop here?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907406#Comment_117907406

Now that was some funny shìt 🤣

Here it is in all its glory in case anyone doubts the above

"The new boards format has only served to exacerbate the trolling issue in the conspiracy forum. On the last site - 5 or 6 heavily paragraphed posts would be enough to move the thread to the next page, thus burying any conspiracy related post and reducing its chances of being seen by lurkers.

Now that the thread pages are so long in the new site they have to up the collaborative effort and collectively increase the incessant spamming to ensure the posts are sufficiently buried.

Really clever the tactics they use to render the forum unusable. The mystery to me is how they have the time/energy/motivation to do this."

Homelander

Not sure what's funnier. That or the guy who claimed over in Current Affairs this week that Leo Varadkar is one of the most evil men the world has ever seen.

Kumejima

Then rename the thread Conspiracy Evidence. These are theories? Like whats Danaerys gonna do in Season 8 of Game of Thrones.

Jayzis, there's a reason I can stand about 10 minutes in these forums before I have to leave for months at a time. You humourless sneering autists are such a drag to be around.

And yet you're here day after day, month after month, year after year. SAD

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907452#Comment_117907452

Paraded as fact, but frequently no small amount of reticence regarding what facts are being claimed. I think it was the Great Reset thread where even after several hundred posts, none of those claiming they believed in it had outlined precisely what they believed the conspiracy consisted of, what it was meant to achieve, what the game plan was, or who was behind it. But it's definitely a real conspiracy, and anyone who doesn't believe in it has been hoodwinked, etc. Apparently.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907462#Comment_117907462

Yet amazingly you took the time out this morning to make your point.

.. whatever it actually is ?...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907462#Comment_117907462

But they are theories.

If they are theories, why are theorists so reluctant to say things like "I don't have evidence to support this claim." or "I can't explain this contradiction"?

Why are they so reluctant to just explain their theories and what they believe and why they believe it?

Anyway..

This thread has turned into a nice 'case in point'..The same posters having their circlejerk..This ends up being 80% of every thread..

like, whatever, but it's sad to see how boards.ie has turned out..

Just close it down..

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

Nah. I like the place tbh it doesn't just circle around what you want it to be.

But sure look!

Also just to note once again posters who don't like being challenged consistently have turned now to making it personal and attacking individual posters when challenged. Your post is a prime example of that. And you're the one complaining about how boards is now . Gas !

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

Close it down and it turns most other fora into the covid forum where threads on the likes of ivermectin are permitted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907475#Comment_117907475

So far I've been called an egoist, fat, a WoW player with no life and now an "autist".

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

Censor / cancel / shut it down!!

Again, CT posters show their true colours.

If you can't explain why you have a theory, or that it's just something you think MIGHT be true, then say so. It is no shame to admit this.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907451#Comment_117907451

There's no conspiracy here being discussed. The only reason I'm ignoring king mobs question is because it's an obviously loaded question which is clearly trying to force me into one of two camps. I've also stated I can see where he's coming from (it's healthy to have an objective viewpoint) but I find the questioning excessive.

Don't try to paint a picture that everyone not on board the whack-a-mole express here is in the Trump camp.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907491#Comment_117907491

As I've consistently pointed out. This is not the fun conspiracy theories chat discussion that used to exist. It's more sinister and the personalized slurs are part and parcel .

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907462#Comment_117907462

Ironic that you compare CTs to obvious fiction.

Personally I'd have no issue if the CT forum was moved to the entertainment / fictional writing area of the forum, where posters are free to muse on what-ifs to their hearts content... Once there is a huge flashing banner to make it clear that what's being discussed is fiction or hypothetical.

Its when they try to pawn off ridiculousness as fact, with no basis whatsoever, that I have an issue with.

So is that what CT posters want?

To be included as fiction??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907494#Comment_117907494

It's not a loaded question.

It's a simple and direct question. If you feel it is loaded in some manner, explain why.

I think that asking people to support claims of fact with evidence is an acceptable and reasonable thing. Do you agree or disagree? If you disagree, how do you believe that such things should be handled in the Conspiracy forum where questions like that are not allowed.

I am asking because I don't know your view point. I can't thing of a way to handle those situations that would help discussion. I can only see disallowing those questions preventing discussion.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907462#Comment_117907462

You were caught posting anti-vax nonsense in the pregnant forum trying to scare pregnant women, you ran away with your tail between your legs when challenged, that is an absolutely awful thing that you were doing in that forum. Not sure whether you were trying to bring humour to those threads for your own kicks or just outright trolling, but you're in no position to lecture others about how sad they are, your opinion on these matters is worth nothing.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907494#Comment_117907494

You can't answer if you think the response is appropriate???

That's not a loaded question. It's asking your opinion.

If you have one, say so, if you don't... Fair enough

banie01

Nothing "needs" to be done.

Where someone presents a theory, it should be subject to scrutiny and given that a theory by definition has some supporting evidence, it is incumbent upon those making claims to evidence and support their positions.

It's conspiracy theory forum, not a conspiracy hypothesis one.

Allowing the CT forum to descend into a safe space where posters can make unevidenced and unchallenged claims is a path that leads to risk IMO.

If people want safe spaces? Boards or indeed any moderated public forum should not be the place for it. Allowing such? Is tantamount to supporting the CT in the 1st instance. If no support is needed, or no challenge allowed? What is the point in even having the forum other than to allow a certain cohort of "truthseekers" to pat themselves on the back in support of ever greater bullshít gallops?

storker

@sydthebeat "Personally I'd have no issue if the CT forum was moved to the entertainment / fictional writing area of the forum"

Or religion.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

It's a discussion forum, like any other. If some individuals don't like the discussion part that's not a reason to close the forum, it's a reason for those individuals who examine why their views can't be discussed normally

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907527#Comment_117907527

And then what if the charter is changed and no questioning or disagreeing is allowed. Does this mean that all conspiracy theories are allowed?

Or is it just the mythic "valid" ones that we hear about?

Many conspiracy theorists seem to not like the idea of their preferred conspiracy being compared to ones like flat earth and lizard people. Should we treat all these conspiracies as equally as valid and protected from questions and doubt? What about when conspiracy theories disagree like those who believe that the pentagon wasn't hit with a plane. Are people allowed to disagree as long as they believe there was a conspiracy theory of some kind?

What about Holocaust Denial?

We're asking you guys what changes you'd like to make and how you'd implement them to get what you claim to want and how you would deal with issues like these.

But all we're getting in response is insults and ignoring.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907543#Comment_117907543

I'd imagine there would be a huge uproar from the frequent religious posters there.

Do all CTs subscribe to the same dogma?

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

I'm curious...

Why are you attempting to have the CT forum closed down instead of simply making your own decision to stop visiting?

Why are you not instead requesting a "CT Safe Space" forum where you can get the conditions for "discussion" that you obviously want?

Did you inform the CT forum that you were intending to take the step of requesting its closure so that other contributors could make the case for its retention or support your case for its abolition?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907553#Comment_117907553

K.M, I'm not sure if I'm one of the "you guys" in your reply? I'd hope I'm not.

I'm very happy to discuss any CT or indeed any position I support and lay out the evidence that led me to my belief.

The thing is, I don't support any. The majority of time I spend over on the CT forum is spent trying to ascertain what evidence those supporting such hypotheses along with presenting evidence that is in dispute with the Hypotheses that are proposed.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907463#Comment_117907463

Some lad is after posting over on the CA AUKUS sub thread that the UK and US giving Australia access to nuclear power trains and Sub tech is indicative of the great reset 🤦

Same poster also managed to make a vaccine supply conspiracy post too 🤷‍♂️

Australia going gung ho with Americas great reset, now being rewarded with nuclear subs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907575#Comment_117907575

Sorry, by "You guys" I meant people that are arguing that the conspiracy theory charter needs to be changed. I was using your post as a jumpping off point for mine.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907600#Comment_117907600

Americas great reset being led by the German octogenarian schwab, for the purpose of..... Well no one actually knows.....

Just put the four or five posters on Ignore job done.

You get that with every forum on boards. That's what its their for.

Calling for it to be closed down is pretty childish.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907474#Comment_117907474

Really? Close it down?

Not, well here's the evidence that those bullies didn't listen to?

Not, in future the difference between a theory and a hypothesis should be lain out? Rather than running with an an unevidenced theory, and running away from questions that seek evidential support? That by shifting presentation to a hypothetical what if scenario, it may bear out at least a discussion?

Rather, you not getting immediate support for a nonsensical position on shutting down discussion on a discussion site demand that it be shut down, presenting discussion as evidence of failure?

I think some people need a break from boards if a forum is annoying them that much.😂

nullzero

I think the Conspiracy theory Forum regulars may well benefit from taking up a new hobby, perhaps one that gets them outside and active.

I saw one post mentioning that closing that forum would result in the topics it hosts spilling into the rest of the site. Last week there was a Twenty years since 9/11 thread in AH where users were posting their memories of that day etc.

The issue of conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 was raised, by a regular Conspiracy theories forum poster who is in the "conspiracy skeptic" camp stating that they expected the thread to descend into a mess of conspiracy theory arguments, this did not come to pass. In fact they were the only person bringing to topic up, I said as much and was the recipient of a scathing response from them.

In the end, the people over there who see themselves as battling the immense evil of conspiracy theories have in a lot of ways lost sight of reality themselves. The notion that loony right wing conspiracy nuts having only emerged in the last few years to run riot in American cities ignores that there are people on the opposite side of the political aisle are doing the same thing and that right wing militias have existed in certain parts of America for decades.

If the CT forum disappeared it wouldn't be to the detriment of the site as a whole.