Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117933750#Comment_117933750

Just to highlight to @Beasty , Markus has since replied to other posts and would have read this and has been asked numerous times to give an opinion here, similar behavior occurs in the forum with the "we landed on mars" thread where the OP won't post what he believes and spends the time scoffing at real world events when they get reported.

In this case, should the question continue till an answer is given (it's a pretty fundamental question in this thread), or should people move on? If the OP of a theory, or protagonist in a thread behaves like this, the discussion goes nowhere really, should that person keep their posting privilege's in those instance?

Another poster is trying to turn this into a COVID denial/no restrictions thread to try and air all their dirty laundry, should posters continue engaging here?

If the basic (and I mean really basic) questions don't get answered, the discussion inevitably turns into a pile on as there is nothing other to discuss.

It is a CT forum and I think there needs to be a better standard on both sides but raising the bar slightly on what gets answered and moderating discussion when an individual is clearly dodging would help that immensely, it doesn't mean all questions get answered and maybe the point there is that the individual doesn't know, so if they get asked the same question twice and dodge it, the presumption is that they don't have an answer and can't build their theory any further and it can simply be marked as "debunked (for now)".

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936901#Comment_117936901

Perhaps a better and more direct solution would be for a moderator to step in and ask the poster to address the question, either directly, answering "I don't know" or otherwise explaining to the moderator's satisfaction that the question is unfair or irrelevant.

If the person doesn't do this, it could be considered a breach of the charter as this kind of behavior is detrimental to discussion.

Likewise if a person feels like a question is being asked repeatedly despite being answered, this too could be a reportable offense where the poster simply points out where the question has been addressed to a moderator, who then puts a stop to it.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936901#Comment_117936901

I just checked and Markus pointed out his opinion both in regards to the sneaky charter changes and suggested some rules regarding starting a thread going forward.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936992#Comment_117936992

How many questions regarding 1 simple opinion would you suggest should be allowed in one post ?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937036#Comment_117937036

But the question was about the template idea.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937043#Comment_117937043

One or two. Max maybe three. It would really depend on the nature of the post and the questions. Asking for simple clarifications or answers to a yes or no question is not really the same as asking for an in depth lengthy answer.

If conspiracy theorists can answer questions directly, then the questions wouldn't pile up as much.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937177#Comment_117937177

Astrofool mentioned opinion. I mentioned opinion ..... Which he provided

So as an example .. Atta's passport being found without a mark on it being somewhat suspicious and or convenient ( not even a controversial point to have as this was mentioned in the guardian for example) shouldn't be followed with a barrage of questions by you as is shown below. Thanks for clearing that up

So what's the alternative explanation for this then?

Why did they place a passport in the wreckage?

What benefit did it bring them?

Why would they do if it would be obviously fake and convince no one?

Why, if they had to do it, could they not add some scratches and weathering to make it look more convincing?

Who placed it there?

Under who's orders?

When and where?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937449#Comment_117937449

Ok. But you're ignoring the context in which that was asked. where those questions have been left hanging and ignored over a period of time and I was illustrating that your conspiracy claim begs so many obvious questions that it is obviously ridiculous.

So what's the alternative explanation for this then?

Why did they place a passport in the wreckage?

What benefit did it bring them?

Are essentially the same question. Which we have not actually been furnished with an answer.

The other questions could be easily answered with a short sentence. Or with "I don't know."

I don't think that these questions are overly taxing, unfair or off topic. If anyone who doesn't have a well documented issue with me disagrees, please say so.

It would be best if you linked to the posts you are refering to so that everyone can see the proper context.

Now please also remember that the last time that this conspiracy claim was brought it, it was because one of you guys was using it as an example of how the official story is obviously silly.

Now what exactly is your issue with these questions? Is it just that there are too many of them?

Can you actually answer them?

Astrofool mentioned opinion. I mentioned opinion ..... Which he provided

This was the question being refered to:

What do you think of the template?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937449#Comment_117937449

That is merely asking the one question of WHY? in a few different ways in the hope that one of them might get answered.

"Why?" is the main question in relation to any conspiracy theory which is never satisfactorily answered.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937684#Comment_117937684

Answering Why may only provide the opinion of someone ... which is rarely accepted by the skeptics. Not able to answer why doesn't mean that said point is invalid.

The fact that the barrage of questions after 1 simple point/observation being raised doesn't raise your eyebrows speaks volumes. and this is just one example of the kind style of posting/debating that is taking place in that forum. I know said user is a huge fan of the socratic method where one should mainly focus on asking questions. But this is not how you engage in a debate in the CT forum, hence the friction

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937855#Comment_117937855

So for reference, would you find this post to be also unacceptable?:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116894087#Comment_116894087

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937855#Comment_117937855

Not answering why means that there is nowhere else to go with discussing the conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy then someone must have been conspiring and the first thing to figure out is usually why they are conspiring. If the theorist cannot even give their own opinion for that basic question then they have no conspiracy to be theorising about.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938080#Comment_117938080

Which is why I believe most conspiracy theorists dodge the question.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937855#Comment_117937855

My post was fairly easy to read and hard to misinterpret, the fact that's the route (misinterpret) you went down highlights exactly the reason why the charter was changed and it would be a mistake to switch it back, you have basically proven why it must be the way it is, along with the others who are pushing CT but can't answer basic questions about them that would encourage rather than stifle discussion.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938284#Comment_117938284

You seem to forget that there still can be a conspiracy without a poster knowing why.

Everyone on both sides of the discussion was perfectly able to post with the 2015-2019 charter in place correct ?

And now after the sneaky change the forum is less suitable for the people who it's designed for

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937887#Comment_117937887

Could be ..How long was that last set of questions you asked him ?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938978#Comment_117938978

Simple question that you have refused to answer. It’s only one and so not too many for one post. What are the benefits of reverting to the 2015 charter?

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939072#Comment_117939072

I did answer that question .. I even think on more than one occasion

This is not the first time you come here demanding answers to things already addressed..

And no I am not going to spoon feed you ....

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939251#Comment_117939251

Where is the demanding?? If you answered it I wouldn’t be asking again. You are just showing what the main issue is with the forum. Constant dodging and refusal to answer questions that should be simple to answer if you believed your argument.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939260#Comment_117939260

Just checked ... and yes I answered that question .... not with the answer you liked but i did address your query.

So you can stop the "refuse to answer and dodging question spiel" It's kinda silly.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939308#Comment_117939308

You pointed me to a thread of ranting and arguing. No one can identify the benefits. So the question has been dodged and that is one of the main issues with the CT forum. People get ideas, push them and then don’t seem to want to support their beliefs.

sydthebeat

The world is not the same place in 2021 that it was in 2015.

That's something you are gong to have to get used to.

The charter absolutely should not go back in any way to allow all kinds of dangerous BS go unchallenged

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939308#Comment_117939308

I've just looked through the thread in the 9/11 forum and note the mod gave you explanations of the changes. You clearly were not happy, but having reviewed that thread I can understand the points being made by the mod, and am struggling to see any benefits from reverting to the prior Charter

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938978#Comment_117938978

No I didn't forget that. I've been arguing this point for most of the thread.

I've already explained what I believe to be the issues with the previous charter several times throughout this thread. Specifically I pointed out that the charter was not enforced as written as doing so would be ridiculous and kill discussion.

I asked him no questions as that was his first post in the thread.

Now notice how you have answered exactly zero of my questions.

I asked you to supply the context for the post you are refering to. You ignored that.

I asked you what your issue specifically was with the questions. You ignored that.

I asked if you could actually answer those questions. You ignored that.

And this is all a tangent and distraction to the point I was making in the first post you quoted. I was explaining that conspiracy theorists should not be allowed to ignore points and questions because they cannot answer them. You ignored that too.

@Beasty , Do you see the issue I've been arguing. Do you believe wiesses here has actually addressed any of my points or questions adequtely? Has he ignored questions?

Beasty

As I've indicated there is no requirement for anyone to respond to anything anywhere on this site. My suggestion, again as already indicated, is not to give the Conspiracy further credence by repeating questions. Ask the question, if they do not answer it says more about the alleged conspiracy than anything else. No-one is going to have much belief in a claim that attracts a dozen posts then fizzles out. I suspect posters making claims with little if any evidence to support it are likely to get frustrated if no-one gets worked up about their claims - let such threads die a death and focus on ones where posters are prepared to interact in a constructive manner

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940709#Comment_117940709

But this solution doesn't work as conspiracy theorists will go on making the claims as if the question was never asked in the first place, so in many cases the actual question then gets buried by tons of other false claims that beg even more questions.

Why not hold conspiracy theorists to the fair and on topic questions being asked? If they aren't willing to answer them, doesn't that mean they are the one's unwilling to discuss by definition.

Also, you yourself haven't really answered the direct questions I asked. Can I ask why? Personally I find it very very frustrating and very rude when people do this.

Did you not answer because the questions are unfair? Off topic? Or...?

Could you perhaps answer them now?

Do you believe wiesses here has actually addressed any of my points or questions adequately? Has he ignored questions?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940709#Comment_117940709

In a normal discussion on any other part of the site outside of some Covid or Trump threads, I'd generally agree.

The main issue with that stance in the CT forum is that the OP and others of similar bent will totally ignore the question and that is compounded by then repetition of claims or even doubling down.

Take an exchange here recently where a poster explicitly said some Covid conspiracies are true. Then denied it, asked to be shown where they said it, impugned another's reading ability, then when their posts were quoted back to them decided they were being picked on and taken out of context, before finally confirming what they said.

It's very much a matter of pinning down an answer in a maelstrom of BS deflection.

Beasty

Posters cannot be required to answer anything. I can see a few threads in CT at present that have gained nil traction, and certainly in a couple of cases the OP has just disappeared. Those threads are dead. No-one has established anything and that is very clear for anyone giving the respective threads a cursory glance

If you repeatedly ask questions though my personal view is you are giving much more credibility to a claim than it perhaps deserves by perpetuating the discussion. If no-one answers your questions why not simply move on?

Indeed there are points made in this thread where posters have failed to back them up. Repeating them is simply giving those points more (undeserved in my view) oxygen

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939474#Comment_117939474

Great ... Good luck with the forum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941827#Comment_117941827

I agree points were being made that lacked any credibility and did not reflect the situation 2015 -2019 ... Glad you could see through that

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941827#Comment_117941827

But I'm saying that if posters refuse to answer questions, this means that they are not willing to discuss what they are posting.

In that case, what's the point in allowing the thread to continue? Why give a platform to some one to spout nonsense that they don't want questioned or discussed?

Your assumption that everyone will see that the questions are ignored or that everyone will see the theory as nonsense doesn't hold water for me. If this was the case, there wouldn't be any conspiracy theorists. As we've seen on this thread, conspiracy theorists have a habit of twisting things and declaring fair questions as irrelevant or nonexistant when it suits them.

We keep seeing threads where people are making claim after claim and dumping link after link long after the central theory has been questioned. Take the boiling frog thread. The main question has been ignored from the start of that thread, yet conspiracy theorists keep posting new claims and news articles on the thread despite this. Your solution seems to be to ignore that and pretend that isn't happening and allow them to post potentially dangerous nonsense that buries all the fact and points that have been made that they can't answer. This doesn't make sense to me.

Nor does your claim that trying to hold them to the questions they ignore helps give them credibility. How could ignoring the question once rob them of all credibility while having them repeatedly ignore the question to the point that they do back flips to do so helps increase their credibility?

Your assumption also goes on the idea that conspiracy theorists would just either answer or ignore entirely. But this isn't the case. Many engage with some points to appear to be willing to discuss, but will still dance around and avoid points and questions that they don't want to answer. This further gives them leeway to pretend to be more credible and obfuscate the fact they are avoiding certain questions.

So again, why not have a rule to specifically tackle this avoiding of questions? People aren't required to answer anything, but if people are avoiding questions and points purposefully, then they aren't engaging in discussion in good faith.

This is something that a mod can easily judge and rule on.

Again man, your answer to my direct questions are ambiguous and indirect to the point that wiesses has taken it to mean you are referring to everyone but him.

Beasty

I don't think there should be any rule forcing anyone to answer any questions. That's not something expected anywhere on the site

Beasty

I would add that if an OP does not address relevant questions asked that the best course of action is to report the OP requesting the thread be closed