Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945259#Comment_117945259

• Do not demand proof for someone else's theories.
• This forum is for the discussion of Theories: they may not be readily conclusive. Instead, provide a constructive counter-argument. "eg. Lizard people exist in NYC subways!" "Actually a 2017 study found that subways were only populated by rats - [source link]."
• 
  

QED

Both of these two policies taken together result in the CTer not having to provide any proof for theory

Do not demand proof for someone else's theories.

they may not be readily conclusive

and this policy shifts the burden of proof onto the skeptic to disprove the theory

Instead, provide a constructive counter-argument

where the charter itself refers to the skeptic having to provide a "report"

if you cannot see this, then i cannot help you any further

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945322#Comment_117945322

If you say so. If you believe this, you're welcome to back it up.

However, the many many many points against that charter also still remain unaddressed.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945361#Comment_117945361

You are describing what could have happened in 2019 You only have to exchange the word conspiracy theorist to skeptic

And I don't have a link to that feedback discussion ...... Maybe one of the mods can give some insight regarding this.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945377#Comment_117945377

It says you cannot demand proof for a theory ... Where does it state the burden of proof lies on the skeptic ? .... It asks for a counterargument which is not to far fetched right ?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945377#Comment_117945377

And again, it bares pointing out that it refers to "demanding proof" which does not happen on the forum. Conspiracy theorists have been conflating "demanding proof" with "asking for evidence" repeatedly on the forum and this thread. If the charter is upheld as they want it, it would indeed stop people from asking these kinds of basic questions and shift the burden of proof in a ridiculous way.

One such side effect is that it would allow any and all bullshit conspiracy theory to be given free reign to be posted unchallenged. Conspiracy theorists have repeatly made reference to valid and invalid theories, but have not been able to elaborate on what those are or what is to be done with them.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945381#Comment_117945381

I ask you the same question

Did you found yourself hindered posting in the CT forum with the 2015 charter in place ?

AFAIK .. You posted without any restraints over the 4 years. so there cannot be that many points against it

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945421#Comment_117945421

I've already explained the resultant of that charter.

And I have already said that if you cannot understand that, i cannot help you any further.

The charter allows baseless theories to be posted without question and puts the burden of proof on the skeptic to disprove.

That is not acceptable in 2021

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945433#Comment_117945433

I was not hindered by the charter because the charter was no actually enforced as written because that would have been ridiculous.

It was however used as an excuse by conspiracy theorists to avoid points and questions they did not like or want to discuss.

Why are you asking me a question while at the same time admitting that you aren't and haven't answered any of the ones put to you?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945401#Comment_117945401

Hopefully that discussion can be found, because there's a lot of BS going on here

Dohnjoe

Does anyone have a link to the line from the 2015 charter? the one that Weisses here has spent years trying to reimplement (I know it was earlier in the thread but this new design makes it difficult)

Fighting Tao

Admin has spoken and the 2015 charter doesn’t appear to be a runner. It might be time to stop giving weisses airtime about it, as it’s very repetitive at this stage.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945377#Comment_117945377

And there it is, the real reason for all this

1. Effectively a conspiracy theorist doesn't have to provide any evidence for their theories.
2. The burden of proof is shifted

An echo chamber for conspiracies theories and views.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945442#Comment_117945442

Problem is the fact that is not the case ... You provided examples which not reflect what is in the charter thus a moot point

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945486#Comment_117945486

It is posted about 20 times on the various treads 😕

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945930#Comment_117945930

well..... lets just say your interpretation of those words are different from mine, and my view of them is diametrically opposed to yours.

however i still stand by my opinion that that 2015 charter is absolutely not fit for purpose in 2021, in this post-covid, post-trump era we are living in.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945909#Comment_117945909

Where does it states you cannot ask for proof ? just keep in mind asking is not the same as demanding

Second A conspiracy theorist does not have to provide any evidence in the 2019 charter .... If so tell me what point addresses this

Charter below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057423767/updated-aug-2019-forum-charter-read-before-posting

If you tried to make a "gotcha" point I think it failed.

So same question for you

Were you hindered in your postings with the old charter in place ?

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945941#Comment_117945941

That is fine But your opinion and concern is also not addressed in the new charter ... you are saying the current charter is not fit for purpose either then right ?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945996#Comment_117945996

??

the current charter DOES NOT create a safe space for CTs to be posted in a protected and unchallenged manner.

you have shown over and over that you do not understand my opinion, so im confused as to why you think you can apply it to other circumstances.

best thing for you is not to try.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945979#Comment_117945979

Asking and demanding = semantics.

This line: "Do not demand proof for someone else's theories" = Effectively means conspiracy theorists don't have to provide evidence for their theories. That of course makes no sense, on any forum. If someone has a conspiracy theory, they should at least be able to a) detail it somewhat and b) provide some evidence for it. They are making a claim. With the above loophole, someone can make a claim, or just suggest that "something is going on" and then refuse to provide any evidence for it and they can claim to be validated by the charter.

And this "This forum is for the discussion of Theories: they may not be readily conclusive. Instead, provide a constructive counter-argument" makes the situation exponentially worse. Not only does someone not have to provide any evidence, but anyone can claim anything and the burden of proof is shifted. Which is completely absurd.

If someone wants to make a claim, fine, it's up to them to support it. Demonstrate it how they can. If they can provide evidence, good, if they can answer questions, great, but if they can't, they can't. How hard is that.

If there's a civility issue with that, then that's why the mods are there

Why would their views need protections? It's a public discussion forum. It's also a forum full of disinformation, anti-vax, anti-science, and all sorts of views we've seen that are not only harmful, but actually dangerous, why would you support creating protections for views like that?

Markus Antonius

I think for as long as the mods of the CT forum are of the opinion that the sea-lioners aren't trolling, I think the forum will always remain a cesspit regardless of any charter change.

Right now the dominant cohort of posters in the forum hate conspiracy theories and theorists and some openly admitting to being purposefully "abrasive" (which has to be the understatement of the decade). The undying and relentless motivation being that conspiracy theories are "dangerous" and are the start of a slippery slope, which 99% of people know is complete boll*x. Sorry to tell you, but killing the discussion on boards will not stop the discussion happening elsewhere on the internet. So if you think you are achieving some kind of social justice or civic duty just remember - boards is a site with around a hundred thousand users at the very most with just a tiny percentage interested in the conspiracy forum. Do you really think your hours and hours of dedication is achieving anything really? Do you think you've managed to convince anyone otherwise? What do you feel you've achieved really by stifling such a tiny, miniscule corner of the internet?

On top of all of this, you've completely missed the point of the forum. The forum isn't called "Post your conspiracy theory here and defend it as if it is your god-fearing religious belief and if you don't we will sneer you out of the forum and consider it debunked"

The purpose of the forum was for people do discuss the ins and outs, strengths and weaknesses, rational and abstract and everything in between of conspiracy theories (conspiracy theories that exist whether you like it or not) and for those arguments for or against to be freely put forward by people regardless of whether they believe in it or not. How much a poster believes in a conspiracy theory is completely irrelevant, and quite frankly none of your business.

What if two people who don't believe in a conspiracy theory, want to have a discussion about it? Where should they post this on boards without being the victims of an online onslaught by people who they would rather gouge their own eyes out than have a discussion with?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947500#Comment_117947500

Seriously? You're going with name calling and lies?

You posted fake pictures that you yourself had edited and posted as factual and when caught out on your lie tried to weasel out of it.

Thats why the forum exists and that's why people question conspiracy theorists, because a lot of the time they are posting lies to try make thier silly theories sound plausible.

When called out on thier lies they resort to exactly the type of rant that you have just posted.

robinph

> The purpose of the forum was for people do discuss the ins and outs, strengths and weaknesses, rational and abstract and everything in between of conspiracy theories

Nothing to prevent conspiracy theorists to have been engaging with each other in that way, and being asked "why?" repeatedly by others doesn't stop theorists ignoring those posts and discussing the theories amongst themselves. There doesn't seem to be much evidence of theorists wanting to engage with other theorists posts though as even they don't believe each others theories.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947582#Comment_117947582

Yes, I posted that fake picture to spread Dangrious Misinformation! Give me a break please.

It clearly illustrated that none of you were able to tell the difference between the pictures NASA post and the pictures that I can create in Microsoft Word in under 5 minutes....

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947592#Comment_117947592

Why lie? Why fake a picture to further your argument that the space programmes around the world are fakes. It’s not just you, it’s so many CTists that lie to further the other lies they have told.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947592#Comment_117947592

Dohnjoe called it out as fake in the very next reply to it.

No one was fooled by it.

Your tactic was simply a poor attempt at trolling.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947500#Comment_117947500

And again conspiracy theorists are misrepresenting what I've said.

I did not "admit to being purposefully abrasive".

And again in the thread where you claimed that the space program was faked the only poster who asked an "onslaught" of questions was yourself. To which you received an answer to each.

In reply I asked you exactly one question which you at no point were able to answer.

People are also able to read your replies in that thread to see that your complaints about tone are entirely hypocritical.

This rant seems to be an admission by yourself that you (and other conspiracy theorists) don't actually believe the conspiracy theories you post about.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947592#Comment_117947592

Except for when posters did tell the difference and called you out on it, I think it took around 10 minutes before you were caught out and started backtracking on your claims 🤣

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947592#Comment_117947592

Right. You claimed the space program is fake, you hinted the world isn't a globe, you dodged virtually every question on it, you refused to detail any of these theories, you claimed other posters were "trolls" because they are asking you about it, you faked a photo and were caught out straight away - all in one thread

It's right here, you post your photo, the very next post is me spotting it as a fake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900807#Comment_117900807

Yet you are free to post this and more on that forum, and you are still complaining.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947592#Comment_117947592

LOL......WTF are you talking about? It was spotted as a fake immediately and you were called out on it. You tried to pull a fast one, got caught with your knickers down, attempted to claim it was real, got found out AGAIN, then tried to play it off as proof that people need special software to spot fakes, when it was clearly spotted as fake by the very next poster after you. Then you abandoned the thread and haven't been back in two weeks.

Now, you're trying to retconn the whole sorry episode as proof that CT skeptics are incapable of spotting fakes, despite the complete opposite being true.

For anyone looking in on this from a neutral POV, it is a prime example of the intellectual dishonesty and time-wasting tactics employed by people who are easily duped into this conspiracy nonsense:

You fake a photo in less than 5 minutes

Multiple people call it fake

They ask for a source

You provide a fake one

Others scour your fake source and ask you to be more specific

You again give a vague, bullsh1t answer

Someone goes to the bother of proving that it's a fake

You start laughing like an idiot, telling everyone that you've fooled them all and claiming it as a victory when everyone else can clearly see you for what you are

6+hours and 14 posts of time wasting all to prove that you were posting in bad faith and you stick your fingers in your ear and say that you've won

You should have been banned for that post, IMO

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949290#Comment_117949290

And of course, this is all after he had every single one of his questions answered directly and in full with references.

There's a reason no other conspiracy theorists have commented on his behaviour, that thread, or his theory.