Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908883#Comment_117908883

Joined March 5th?

What was your previous account? What part of the "old charter" specifically would you like to see bought back?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908883#Comment_117908883

What specific changes in the charter have you irked?

And what would change would you make?

What is the specific problem with the charter as it is now?

Where one claims a "theory" one needs to evidence it and at the very least lay out the train of thought that has led to believe their theory is plausible.

What is wrong with posters seeking that? Why is it a threat?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908895#Comment_117908895

The whole point of what I proposed should help discussion not hinder it.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908906#Comment_117908906

The problem is that people like you don't know what a "theory" is. People like you who dominate the conspiracy forum with no scientific background yet have an idealistic perception of science as something that is perfect and cannot be challenged. You believe that the conspiracy forum is something that threatens science when the vast majority of posters see it for what it is - a place where you can discuss the abstract, discuss unusual phenomena that don't have any scientific foundation or explanation yet. You make crude claims that such discussions are tantamount to irrational actions such as mass shootings or anti-vax movements (the irony being that this is a conspiracy in itself).

It is clearly an effort of fringe liberals who hate free-speech and open discussion and go out of their way to steam-roll the spirit of the thread with social-justice as the motivation. This combined with people with too much time on their hands and seek to dump on people's hobby because they simply have nothing better to do.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908726#Comment_117908726

That's a reasonable template and ensures at least a modicum of thought and at least a requirement for implicit or circumstantial evidence are placed upon OP's.

The current standard for many of the OP in the CT forum is little better than throwing shít at a wall in hope of a Eureka or stream of consciousness.

As a suggested change? It's the best I've seen to date on the thread.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908971#Comment_117908971

I have seen some spectacular bullshit in my time on boards, but this is up there with some of the best 😂😂

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908971#Comment_117908971

You keep saying it's a hobby, isn't there a hobby forum you could go to and post your theories there?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908971#Comment_117908971

You claim "Is is clearly an effort of fringe liberals who hate free-speech and open discussion and go out of their way to steam-roll the spirit of the thread with social-justice as the motivation".

Yet you are advocating creating an echo chamber where free-speech and open discussion are limited. That makes no sense.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908975#Comment_117908975

*Tips hat*

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908991#Comment_117908991

Thanks.

I've never had a problem acknowledging a good idea 😉 and it's one I hope I don't develop in my impending middle age.

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908971#Comment_117908971

So you're criticising people asking questions and you're calling for a forum to be closed...in the name of free speech. Got it. 🙄

Hint: there's a difference between free speech and unchallengeable speech. I think you have the two confused.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908945#Comment_117908945

You are talking as though the posters in question are innocent and curious with bleeding hearts and just want to understand and further the interesting discussion.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The posters in question (and you should know who I'm talking about if you ever visited the conspiracy forum) they absolutely despise conspiracies and go out of their way to flash mob every thread the instant it is created with lists of questions that take up half the page. I would have no problem with this if the questions were legitimate and were in good faith with a desire to learn more about the conspiracy. But they are not - they are used as a tool to bury conspiracy related posts and if you dare not answer the questions you are swarmed with abusive posts questioning why you are not answering the questions. The questions are always mundane, off-topic and lazy

This absolutely destroys any interesting momentum that a thread might take and that is the goal of these posters. They don't ask questions because they are interested in getting answers, they ask questions to purposely stifle debate. Not only does this go against the last charter but even goes against the current charter. In any other forum they would have been banned long ago. But because conspiracy theories in the last few years have been considered a taboo by the outrage machine - the mods just let it slide.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909018#Comment_117909018

This is entirely true..

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909018#Comment_117909018

None of that, none of it answered the questions you were asked?

I'll repeat them in case you missed them whilst formulating that SOC.

What specific changes in the charter have you irked?

And what would change would you make?

What is the specific problem with the charter as it is now?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909018#Comment_117909018

What you've outlined here could be circumvented by what I proposed earlier. Answer all the inane questions in the OP and leave no room for the thread to be buried in tedious stuff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909034#Comment_117909034

I think you'd still be just harassed to the point of giving up..

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908971#Comment_117908971

Ranting and raving if a right wing nut job. You contribute a grand total of zero to the CT forum by dropping in and posting unintelligible political crap and disappearing when questioned on it and invariable shown to have told lies.

You are the worst type of CT poster. You think you can post right wing trollop as "a hobby" free from any dissection or challenge. Well bad news for you, you won't get away with it here. Lies will be called out for what it is as it is dangerous to leave it unchallenged.

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909020#Comment_117909020

No, it's horseshit. What it really means is that someone gets "triggered" when their half-baked idea of a theory or some other claim doesn't stand up to the most basic scrutiny, i.e. the obvious questions that the "theory" prompts...i.e. the types of questions you would see in a...wait for it...debate. Yes, really. In debates, participants have their claims challenged, their evidence questioned, and their arguments picked apart. That's how debating works. So let's please dispense with this risible claim that those in favour of editing the CT forum charter or closing the CT forum are somehow wringing their hands over the stifling of debate, when this thread is intended to achieve just that.

Discussion without disagreement or questioning would be more like a Ballymagash Mothers of Seven coffee morning than a debate. Of course, if that's what you want, then it's your right to request it, but at least be honest about it, and leave the real debating to those who can hack it without running to mummy.

Flinty997

If you don't like the questions, you can simply put the poster on your ignore list....and well just ignore them.

The problem with conspiracy theories lately is a lot of them are not actually theories. They are just dogma that mostly don't make any sense. Hence why people won't answer questions when challenged.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909028#Comment_117909028

The original charter is here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20151030045246/https%3A//www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056310842

I kindly ask the OP to add this link to post #1.

This point in the original charter is crucial for the proper function of the forum and was removed with absolutely no explanation. It gave the conspiracy haters the room to demand proof for every shred of a claim made. This does not imply that we are looking for an echo chamber. Anyone should be allowed counter a conspiracy theory with opposing evidence/theories/ideas. Asking questions or demanding evidence is not evidence that a conspiracy theory is not true and was rightfully not allowed as part of the old charter.

Also this point is part of the new charter and is broken incessantly without any repercussions:

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909018#Comment_117909018

Conspiracy theorists not having the courage of their convictions....

Well I never.

When the topic is something that is pseudoscientific then it can be all means be discussed and played with...

However when the CT is a lie like, for example, we had last week, where a poster claimed that the Americans knowingly killed 1000 American pows when dropping an atomic bomb on nagasaki.... And the poster was proven patently wrong..... Then that's not pseudoscience or anything that exists in the realm of the mystic.

Its lies.

The poster didn't even have the balls to come back in and admit that either they lied or they simply got it wrong.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909082#Comment_117909082

That wasn't the original, it was a changed charter. Mods were tired of moderating the forum, so one of them proposed that conspiracy theorists basically didn't have to provide evidence for their theories, and that was it. At the time I don't think most people bothered to read the charter discussion (I know I didn't) and I don't think many noticed it being changed.

It's obscene when you think about it, certain views being protected from free speech and discussion. Imagine a forum where e.g. anti-vaxxers can't have their views challenged.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909082#Comment_117909082

Now, thanks for that it wasn't hard to answer the question was it?

The issue with much of what's happening on the CT forum has nothing to do with the 1st charter excerpt.

I have no issue at all with expecting any theory to be afforded the respect of any opponent presenting evidence to the contrary. It's actually how healthy debate should work, the presentation, comparison and refutation of evidence.

The issue is posters claiming "Theory" with zero supporting evidence. If someone is going to make an unsupported claim of any kind? It is incumbent upon them to rectify that, and posters asking repeatedly for the evidence is surely a sign that that OPs aren't even engaging in the most basic of diligence before throwing their hypothesis out there.

NullZero has made a suggestion that would make that a requirement.

If you want a shout box where hypotheses can be thrown out without evidenced or circumstantial support? I'm very much in the No camp and the onus is and should remain upon a poster to evidence their position l, to lay out their conspiracy and the cui bono and why, or expect to be repeatedly questioned because being unable to meet those basic requirements?

Renders any discussion of any theory untenable.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909103#Comment_117909103

So you admit to not reading the charter and wish to continue to break it freely?

You are the last person who can talk about free-speech. You despise it naturally.

This is the original for the general conspiracy forum and has the same legitimate controls that were removed needlessly in the new charter:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130514101302/http%3A//www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055792311

sydthebeat

"updated 2013"

Have you no idea how old boards.ie is??

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909130#Comment_117909130

I wrote that I didn't read the charter discussion at the time, the discussion to change it.

Why are you accusing me of despising free speech?

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909146#Comment_117909146

Projection.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909128#Comment_117909128

You are still talking as though the posters in question are coming from a good place. What they are doing is tantamount to me going to the farming forum, hijacking every single thread accusing farmers of causing climate change. I would be banned instantly and rightfully so.

This is not about challenging beliefs or asking for supporting evidence, it's about closing down the discussion completely.

This is what they want. They want the forum to be closed down. Rather than have conspiracies in plain sight where we can read and observe, the discussions will now be forced off boards where they can fester underground out of sight.

And these people think they are fighting misinformation? LOL!

sydthebeat

I for one certainly do not want the forum closed down. I support freedom of expression.

Just putting that out there.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909169#Comment_117909169

Okay. You, for example, believe the space program is fake. You are more than free to express that opinion on the space forum or the conspiracy theory forum and I support that. You are arguing that people shouldn't have the right to question your opinion.