Restricted Dog list - How do you feel about it?

Mecrab

I walk Shepherds and a Rottweiler for a friend and while both breeds being on the restricted dogs list, Its not really something i thought of but i was stopped by someone in a car who told me the Rottweiler should be muzzled. I got defensive and basically said go away mind your business but she was right by law it should be muzzled even when leashed.

It got me thinking how silly it is to only have 11 breds on this list and how arbitrary the selection seems.

Rhodesian Ridgeback is on there but not a Caucasian Shepherd? Dobermann is on there but not Kangal? It says Ban Dog which means any cross of the dogs on the list so does that mean Boerboel, Cane Corso, Tibetan Mastiff etc. are all on there seen as they all have "Mastiff" in them?

How did they even determine that these 11 breeds should be restricted was it data or was it reputation?

What about Malamutes, Huskeys, Freaking WOLFDOG hybrids lol the more i think of the list the more it doesn't make any sense!

Jequ0n

I have no idea who put together the list but it is mental.

On first sight it looks like it might be based on nothing but “if the dog attacks it’s likely to be a bad bite” because smaller breeds, which are statistically more likely to bite are not listed.

Given the number of people who can’t handle, train or treat their dogs properly it might be beneficial to keep them from obtaining certain breeds, but that’s about the only benefit I see.

The person who stopped you is obviously of a similarly simple mindset as whoever compiled the list. A dog should be muzzled if it shows signs of aggression, not simply because of it’s breed. Adhering to a rule just for the sake of it, and without taking any context into consideration….no thank you.

Mecrab

"If the dog attacks its likely to be a bad bite" yeah thats pretty fair considering all those dogs are large and have powerful jaws.. but then so do Great Danes, Irish Wolfhounds, Newfoundlands, Bernese mountain dogs etc. etc. like really any dog that weighs 40kg plus should be on the list then!

Does any country have any sort of compulsory training thing where you have to demonstrate you can control a large dog? I think that would be better than just restricting breeds.

Jequ0n

I don’t know if any country has such regulations, but it would probably be difficult to enforce as people would be bypassing it.

Pawwed Rig

I find many dog owners get defensive and tell you to mind your own business when called out on their poor behaviour. Whether that be not having their dogs on leads, leaving dirt everywhere, allowing their dogs in restricted places etc. Hopefully the OP will reflect on his behaviour and apologise to the woman if he sees her again.

Cherry Blossom

The restricted breeds legislation has been in force for 30 years now. That means it has been in existence at the time that everyone who owns a restricted breed in Ireland today bought or adopted their dog. Part and parcel of getting a restricted breed is agreeing to the extra measures that are in place. You are welcome to campaign against the legislation and I agree it makes no sense. However if the owner of the dogs in question did not wish to abide by the extra measures in place, there are plenty of breeds that are not subject to them which they should have considered instead when they were getting a dog.

Jequ0n

The OP was questioning the logic behind the selection of banned breeds.

There is probably a good reason but so far nobody could provide one.

DBB

I remember the legislation coming in. Yes, I'm old 😁

In the few years leading up to it, there were a lot of GSDs and Rotties about... really they seemed to be everywhere. Dobies and Rhodesian ridgebacks had also started to become kinda cool to own. There were a few incidents involving these breeds, and I recall people getting into an awful tizz about it all. That's not to say that other breeds weren't biting people, it's just that these big, guarding, "devil dog" breeds got noticed. Confirmation bias, I suppose.

At the same time, your Boerboels, Cane Corsos, Presas Canario etc were utterly unheard of here. It wasn't even "ah sher, nobody will ever own them here", it really was (or seemed) that their existence was not known. Even the likes of huskies, malamutes, Tibetan Mastiffs, dogues de Bordeau... very nichey, rare breeds here at the time. I'm guessing that's one reason why none of these was put on the list.

It was one of the most hastily drawn up, panicky pieces of legislation I know of. Real knee-jerk stuff.

There was a public consultation from the government a couple of years ago for people to submit their thoughts on whether the breed specific legislation needed to be reviewed. Veterinary Ireland led the charge on lobbying for this review with APDT Ireland rowing in behind them, looking for a change to a "deed not breed" approach which puts much more onus on all owners to take responsibility for their dogs, regardless of breed. Where that review is now, I don't know, I suppose those wheels turn very slowly.

PS Just to clarify, wolf-dog hybrids are not to be confused with wolfdogs, which are a breed in their own right. Well... 2 breeds in more "common" circulation... the Czech Wolfdog, and the Sarloos Wolfdog. They are no more wolf hybrids than a chihuahua is, despite the hype. They've just been bred to look like a wolf.

micah537

It's very outdated, as you said plenty of breeds are more dangerous than some breeds on the list but if updated I don't think the restricted breed list is a big deal. I walk my GSD with a muzzle at all times regardless of the rule.

1. She won't eat poisoned food which does be left in certain areas at times.

2. People have a habit of instantly putting their little s**ts back on a lead when they see her. If she doesn't have a muzzle, these dogs wouldn't be put back on their lead and instead will start barking or worse, try to bite her. (I'm not talking about all dogs just the ones with bad owners who think it's OK to have a small runt/toy breed attack a big dog.)

3. Parents will avoid their kids running over to us. Some kids think it's OK to grab her tail because since she's a long hair they thinks she's a giant Teddy bear. Sure she isn't going to bite a child but spooking a large dog by grabbing it's tail is going to make them spin around pretty quickly and knock that child.

Overall, a muzzle is a great tool if your anti social like me and don't want to have to listen to people talk about their dog or kid to you.

Also if a small dog bits a large RB, a dog is a dog, and will protect itself. There is no point in crying when your dog will be pts or you end up with a huge vet bill to pay. A large dog can protect itself even with a muzzle on, something which happened us when an unmuzzled staffy and Jack Russel attacked her at the same time.

An outright ban on lazy people with retractable leads would be fantastic though.

SuperBowserWorld

Too many people getting too many dogs and clueless on how to look after a dog properly. Child killed in Waterford and child seriously injured in Donegal this year. In their homes. Ie dog was not out and walking, so a muzzle would not have helped.

It shouldn't be easy to get a dog. Puppy farming should be banned with huge penalties if you do it. Owners need dog owning lessons too and pass a dog owning test. Every few years the dog and owner should have to pass a test to make sure the dog is being looked after correctly and is not being abused and not disturbed and still has sufficient space and exercise. The dog owner should have to pay for the cost of this. It could be part of vet checkup. Powerful dogs need extra training, checks etc etc etc

Sounds ridiculous but isn't it better than having puppy farms, mistreated miserable animals, dangerous dogs? Sounds like work, but it's a dog, not a teddy bear.

muddypaws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913134#Comment_117913134

There are no banned breeds in Ireland

sillysmiles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906995#Comment_117906995

I'm not certain but I have a feeling that Switzerland and maybe Germany may have pretty strict criteria regarding dog ownership - involving owner training. But as I say - I'm not certain about that.

However, that would never work or happen here. Very different cultural mindset to start with.

BobHopeless

On the topic of restricted breeds i spent a bit of time travelling around Europe this year on my motorbike and went into north western Italy for a couple of days. Every second dog owner had either a Pitbull or a Staffie and none had a muzzle on and many where off lead in parks just mixing with other dogs and people. I'm guessing but not sure if they have a restricted breed list over there but im presuming not and all the dogs are socialised from their early years. Anyone know the story there?

These dogs can be quite scary to people who have a fear of dogs. You may know your dog is fine and will not react.

But someone passing by will not know if it is a well trained dog or not, and may be less anxious or fearful if they see a muzzle on the dog.

tk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952369#Comment_117952369

I’d disagree - I think in some cases a muzzle can freak people out more.. and also I’ve had people afraid of my retrievers or even my friends snail like basset hound - which aren’t on the restricted breed list - whether they’re on or off lead.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952369#Comment_117952369

Same could be said for any breed, why restrict to this list? Plus I have a small terrier and when he wears his muzzle I find the opposite, people are suddenly more fearful of him when without his muzzle they would be far more inclined to approach him without asking or checking if he is friendly.

em_cat

Both of our dogs are muzzle trained & when out with them I also keep their muzzles on their leads, one is a yorkie mix & the other a Pomeranian. When people walking their dogs wearing a muzzle, I think, the owner is responsible, the dog obviously needs space, and it’s great to know I can give them space or distance with out judgement.

In regards to the restricted breed list, I can understand why it exists.

In an ideal world, it would be unnecessary, however until humans change their behaviour regarding ‘attack’ or ‘guard’ dogs & until certain types of people stop using these breeds as accessories or to signal certain lifestyle options, it’s something that will stay in existence.

beveragelady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913351#Comment_117913351

I was a child with a staffie when they brought in the legislation. I remember the weeks preceding it, listening to Gay Byrne in particular stirring up as much outrage as he could on the subject. I also remember hearing Padraig Flynn getting carried away with himself, (and not for the last time...) saying that there would be 'killing stations' around the country and dogs would be brought there to be destroyed. I distinctly remember the absolute panic, knowing that I was going to be powerless if they came for him. He was a big dumb softie, by far the most gentle animal I have ever encountered. He used to be offended by hairy molly caterpillars but he was too gentlemanly to do anything other than bark at them. We wouldn't have stood a chance if we had had to fight for survival. He died in 1998 but I still can't look at pictures of him without the twinge of genuine grief.

I wish I could have met saint Gay Byrne, even for a moment, to let him know that he was responsible for a lot of distress and it hadn't been forgotten.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952369#Comment_117952369

I was once mugged by a Chinese man, perhaps we could ask them to hide their faces in case I get anxious.

I was once knocked over by a Ford Escort, perhaps we could ask drivers to rebadge them as Fiat Unos in case I get anxious.

I was once stood up on a date by a beautiful Swedish bikini model, perhaps we could ask them to pop on a burka in case I get anxious.*

I'm just making light of the point that we need to cover, hide or protect everything that anyone could be fearful of. The restricted list seems bizarre to me. Proper dog ownership is the answer to most of the problems. So, in my opinion, that would mean a basic level of training, a suitable home, and a relatively regular 'check-in' along the life of the dog. Unfortunately, since the powers that be don't seem particularly capable (of anything), I don't think suggestions like the above will ever be considered.

*This one definitely never happened. 😓

sillysmiles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952369#Comment_117952369

TBH another persons fear is their emotion to manage. I can't control or know who is or isn't afraid. I can control that my dog isn't approaching people - but that should be happening with any dog regardless of RBL.

Equally, people who are afraid of dogs tend to be afraid of all dogs - or all dogs above a certain size, irrespective of breed (and frequently they can't differentiate breed)