Michael Higgins Praises Travellers Contribution to Irish Society

UsBus

Two traveller funerals going at it in the cemetery yesterday with multiple stabbings and not one mention of the word traveller in the reports. When is the last time any other family carried on like this. If there are traveller families involved, call it as it is. I'm sure they weren't too offended as they sliced into each other

hawley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927467#Comment_117927467

Irish people were looked down on in England, America, Australia etc, but they worked hard and tried to better themselves. The young members of the Travelling Community are going to be far worse than previous generations. Some older people in my town are afraid to leave their houses at night, because of the antisocial behavior of Travellers. Michael obviously doesn't care about these people.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927467#Comment_117927467

Where did I resort to insults about his appearance?

I call him bilbo baggins, because like old bilbo he lives in a fantasy world and doesn't live in the real world.

The only people who are in any way impressed by mikey D, are fellow snobs and pseudo-intellectuals who also share in his propensity for talking out their ar$e on a regular basis. He's very well liked in those particular circles.

Anyone who inhabits planet earth, however, and has had the misfortune of needing to deal with members of this so-called discriminated "ethnic minority", will tell you exactly what they have contributed to our society.

SEPT 23 1989

Sure we all bring chainsaws to funerals don’t we Michael

cal naughton

I hope the Chainsaw was seized,the serial number checked and returned to it's rightful owner as them lad's certainly weren't intending to cut tree's with it.

chopperbyrne

I live next door to travellers.

On Saturday, they had a communion party for their youngfella.

At 23:30 it changed to a communion heated exchange.

At 02:30 it was a communion brawl, complete with a woman having her hand cut open by someone who swiped a broken bottle through a car window.

Every time, any of the travellers living in this tiny estate have a gathering, it ends in similar.

Local Gardaí can't do anything.

Every day, there are school age kids of travellers just wandering around the town.

Travellers do not contribute to society in a positive way currently, and don't seem to want to.

As someone else said, it's no surprise that Peter Casey received high numbers of votes in areas with a high traveller population. Peter Casey is a clown, but he's an honest one.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928125#Comment_117928125

Utterly appalling story and sadly not uncommon

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927600#Comment_117927600

Tuam. Check.

Fight at graveyard. Check.

Weird things settled folk never do. Not hard to extrapolate the demographic.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928156#Comment_117928156

Yet the media are puzzled

rolling boh

Most of our politicians etc who come on supporting travellers with sound bites here and there will never have to live near or even beside them they are nicely out of the way so it's others that bear the brunt of the way of life these travellers indulge in .

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928125#Comment_117928125

A truly rich and vibrant culture. The last of the free-living wild-spirited Irish.

We would be poorer without it.

BobHopeless

Still waiting to hear a single thing they contribute to our society.

One Who Waits...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928280#Comment_117928280

A rich and vibrant culture. Boss.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927659#Comment_117927659

Everyone knows why you called him Bilbo Baggins and it very much so was for the sake of insulting him... Well, to use an example the polling on his comments on Northern Ireland had an 87% approval. On top of that, he was comfortably reelected for a second term.

And ya, I think it's not a great look that you're willing to judge an entire group simply by birth. Eg you're never gonna credit members of the community doing masters or PhDs or who have built careers in spite of the fact they are by default more discriminated against.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927213#Comment_117927213

Taken out of education at a young age, arranged marriages, baby factories, not working outside the home, these are all aspects of Traveller cultural treatment of women that would be very similar to Muslim culture.

That another culture treats women worse isn't an argument that puts Traveller culture in a good light either.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927170#Comment_117927170

I don't think you got the point. I am distinguishing between the way the settled community treats travellers which is wrong and the way that the Traveller culture and community treat women within that community which is also wrong.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928312#Comment_117928312

I got the point alright, I don’t think you got my point though - you’re basing your opinion of how women within the traveller community are treated upon your views of travellers as a community, as distinct from how women are treated in society in general, according to how you perceive how women are treated among both the traveller community and society in general. It’s your own prejudices against the traveller community are informing your opinions.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I wonder if he's ever had one of his dogs stolen by travellers, or lived in the same estate as them, or had a gang of them turn up at his door intimidating him, or have one make a false insurance claim against him. I have...and many many many others have too.

Elites live a sheltered life not in touch with reality. Mr Higgins is just another elitist not living in the real world telling the common man how to think. Grade A bell-end.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928359#Comment_117928359

It seems that you don't get the point. You are trying to deny the reality that Traveller culture is toxic to women.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

"Among Traveller women aged 40-49 (the age by which women have typically completed their fertility) 13.3 per cent had not given birth to a child - compared with 18.3 per cent of women generally. Nearly half had given birth to 5 or more children, in stark contrast to just under 1 in 20 (4.2%) of women overall in this age group."

"Irish traveller households comprising of a married couple with children had an average of 5.3 persons per household compared with 4.1 for the general population."

"Among the general population 5.8 per cent of 15-29 year olds were married, compared with 3 in 10 (31.9%) of the Irish Traveller population"

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

"Just 13.3 per cent of Traveller females were educated to upper secondary or above compared with 69.1 per cent of the general population."

"Among females 972 were at work while 2,938 were looking after the home, representing 30.4 per cent of Traveller women aged 15 or over."

These bare facts tell an awful lot about the way that Traveller culture treats women. Many of these statistics are within the power of the Traveller community to change. Yes, some reflect the way that general society treats Travellers, but neither the government nor the settled community force Traveller women out of education and into arranged marriages at a young age.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928156#Comment_117928156

Abandon baby overnight after party in graveyard is another you can add to the list.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928385#Comment_117928385

Like I said already - I got your point, and it still appears you’re not getting my point. I’m not trying to deny reality at all, but I’m certainly going to refute your point of view that from YOUR PERSPECTIVE, traveller culture is toxic to women. You’re using statistics to support your point of view that traveller culture is toxic to women, but all your evidence tells me is that you view traveller culture as toxic to women, it tells me nothing about how travellers feel about their own culture.

You’re looking at travellers as an outsider with your own standards and expectations and denying the reality that travellers have THEIR OWN CULTURE, which in your opinion is toxic for traveller women. That’s why I’m making the point that your opinion is based entirely upon your own prejudices against travellers, based upon the idea that they don’t meet your standards and expectations, as opposed to recognising that they are a completely separate culture based upon their own ethnicity and identity.

It’s precisely for this reason that Government recognised travellers as having their own ethnicity and culture and affords them the same protections in equality legislation as other groups in Irish society, because they recognised that travellers are their own separate identity, and should be protected from unlawful discrimination on that basis, regardless of your opinions of their culture.

TonyMaloney

Lads, we closed the last Magdalene laundry in Ireland in 1996. Marital rape wasn't a crime until 1990. Ffs, we only legalised abortion 3 years ago.

Settled Irish people treated women like utter **** until very recently. It was your dads, your uncles and your grandfathers that did it. It was even some of you.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928312#Comment_117928312

The view that " travellers are treated badly by society " is not evidence based. Travellers are not officially excluded from anything available to anyone else ,beit educational or health services.

It's merely an article of faith amongst progressives who see travellers as another victim group and victim groups are very important to progressives when it comes to pious declarations , hence the waffle out of Miggeldy

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928459#Comment_117928459

Ah here, are you actually arguing that because there are women living in an entrenched culture that is clearly detrimental to their well being is not toxic, because they won't or can't extricate themselves from it?

I've seen some twisting on this forum before, but the resident wokerati squirming trying to justify the treatment of women in traveller culture, simply because that cannot say anything bad about one of their sacred cows is simply a sight to behold.

Do you actually care about women's rights? Because if you're willing to make exceptions, you don't.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927134#Comment_117927134

On point 1, "they should have the same opportunities as all other members of society", they get a hell of a lot more opportunities than someone who's just poor.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928459#Comment_117928459

http://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Relationships-and-Sexuality-Attitudes.pdf

It is not just me who sees this as a problem, read this Report from Pavee Point on it. Read the conclusions:

"Nonetheless, there remain marked differences between mainstream society and culture and Traveller culture. For example, Travellers are generally married young (for example, around 18 years of age for young Traveller women or younger in Northern Ireland and elsewhere in the UK where marriage is legal from 16 years of age); and often have children early in married life; therefore requiring information about sexual health and pregnancy. Where women use contraception in marriage, it may be without the knowledge of their husbands."

"There is a strong gender culture in the Traveller community. Within marriage, this means women and men have distinct roles, with the women taking care of children, cooking and cleaning and the men being the provider and responsible for the upkeep of the family. Before marriage, the reputation of Traveller girls is paramount and they are expected to spend time at home and with family rather than socialising outside of the family, unless chaperoned."

"Traveller parents expressed concern at the level of acceptance of violence within marriage and were worried about young women who may even expect violence when they get married. Young men sometimes saw violence as a solution to problems within marriage, including being “shamed” by their wives. Young women displayed familiarity with violence and “techniques” for inflicting violence. Violence within the wider family and not just between husband and wife was also discussed in Traveller focus groups and came up in interviews with professionals. Violence, rape and incest were serious issues of concern for several of the professionals interviewed."

I am not denying discrimination of travellers by the settled community, but I will not be blind to the failures and problems of Traveller culture, as expressed pretty clearly here by travellers themselves.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928499#Comment_117928499

Ahh here, what I’m arguing is that from your perspective it’s understandable that you would see a culture which differs from your own as being all sorts of problematic, though not for a minute do i believe you give a shiny shyte about women’s rights, or traveller women in any case. It’s just a handy stick to beat them with because you don’t want to recognise that travellers have their own distinct culture which differs from your own, and what you’re portraying as a negative, it doesn’t follow that traveller women feel the same way about their own culture as you do.

Theres nothing woke about that or anything else, and there’s no squirming on my part, and to be honest with you I won’t remember your were such a champion of women’s rights when you’re making exceptions when it’s women are arguing for themselves and making a point you don’t wish to support or you disagree with.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928372#Comment_117928372

“another elitist not living in the real world telling the common man how to think.”

People really do swallow the Rupert Murdoch/Sky News/Daily Mail groupthink slurry don’t they?

For all of this talk about how bad Travellers are it’s not a little ironic to me that the Settled community in Ireland absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Travellers are in any way the victims of prejudice and bigotry in Ireland. Instead it’s all this “common man” “Joe Soap” “man on the street” rubbish. “Telling it like it is.” 🙄

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928600#Comment_117928600

It's very easy to see here who has no real world experience of this "culture" - must be wonderful fighting for travellers and pontificating on all the (self-inflicted) "prejudice & bigotry" they experience while you sip a latte in a leafy suburb far removed from them.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928600#Comment_117928600

How are travellers discriminated against?

Do you mean employment?

Try getting any decent job today without a leaving cert and see how you get on ,in fact the employer will discriminate