10 Million euro Soil Sampling Programme.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974524#Comment_117974524

Not surprised at how quickly this filled up. People think of it as some form of freebie but beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991606#Comment_117991606

Beware of what exactly? information?This is a pilot scheme which means it'll probably it'll probably get a bigger rollout in the near future and anyone who is in the pilot will have a head start. Things are going to be more about getting paid for you land rather than the animal with the new CAP, it's just about accepting it.

Easten

Information is what they will have, your land will be data harvested for free.

Beware of simple things like giving access to your land, it was bad enough in the past that the dept of Ag can access your land, now that right is being given to 3rd party contractors and private companies. Head start on Pilot scheme my ass, anyone remember the BVD pilot scheme? what was the advantage to being early? None, and lads now think it's a great thing. jezz i'd feel like a right Gom if I let these 3rd parties in around the place unchallenged.

Beware of access to Information like what soil type you have, it's nutrient and ph levels, why would you want outsiders to know this? Do you want them to tell you how many cattle to keep, how much fertilizer to spread and when and where? If that's the future of Farming then you are only a Tool. If the new CAP is going to be about getting paid for the land rather than the animal then you might as well just Plant trees and draw the money, it'll make more economic sense and at least you won't have big brother with his arm up your hole.

endainoz

Ignored, I'm not going to reply to insults

RaggyDays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992132#Comment_117992132

I think you just did :p

(I don't see where he insulted you though)

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991606#Comment_117991606

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991959#Comment_117991959

It will probably be mandatory and not voluntary for all farmland to get this soil test done in the near future

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992363#Comment_117992363

This is it. Look at the regs coming in for dosing where you will have to show fecal samples to buy your dosing, it's not that far of a stretch to say that you will need soil analysis in your hand when you go to the co-op in future before they will give you any fert.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992557#Comment_117992557

The very furthest insult could be if they find you're farming peat soil that you'll be told to cease farming that ground and let it go back forming peat again.

New world now.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992557#Comment_117992557

And it does make sense when you think about it. What would be the point of spreading something you already have in the ground, it would just be wasted by either entering water courses or going up into the atmosphere. Now or course nitrogen could also be restricted as the EU wants to reduce it anyway. It's also be accepted as a massive polluter these days aswell.

Say my name

Tweet highlights the fickleness of testing soil N and pH and the problems that can occur by leaving time between sampling and testing.

https://twitter.com/Tim_Friedel/status/1445373188960100353?t=dTiy3O0pV8ndmihBe99FfA&s=19

Also shows what happens with summer N mineralisation. Carbon gases off, leaves nitrates, N % in soil goes up. pH goes down.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992132#Comment_117992132

I don’t think he insulted you personally anywhere and while his post might be a bit strongly worded the points made are all valid.

I don’t see any value in letting the department of Ag have all your soil information.

I agree with you about not spreading something that’s already in the soil but soil samples aren’t than dear. It’s easy to do the samples yourself and use the information then yourself.

Also I doubt there are too many farmers who are serious about their grass and their land that aren’t doing some bit of soil sampling already, even if it isn’t as often as recommended.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992645#Comment_117992645

Your getting confused with soil sampling and soil analysis which are two completely different things. All soil sampling does is just tell you how deficient your are in lime or NPKs. Essentially telling you what bag you need to put out. This does nothing for soil health in the long run. Deep soil analysis is more expensive but gives a much more detailed picture with regard to trace elements and what minerals are "locked" in the soil and the farmer can then use that information to improve overall soil health.

This sort of signing away your life to the dept of ag with your soil details is a bit silly. The dept know a huge amount about all our farms as it it. Between carbon navigators, nitrates statements, satellite inspections, the beef genomics scheme, etc etc. Gathering data on Irish farms is nothing new.

bogman_bass

The argument “I don’t want to know the data so the government don’t know the data” isn’t a great one

Say my name

Have we dept of ag/soil sampling companies/honey bee workers contracted out on the team here? 🤔😆

Loads of reasons why a farmer mightnt want officialdom to know their soil status. There's a good few given already in the thread. If they are not swayed by a "free" soil sample that's their own business.

It's not be all and end all either.

A neighbour tested their phosphorus levels end of 2018. They were up in index 4. They continued their normal phosphorus spreading 19 and 20. End of 2020 they were index 2. The heat and drought of 18 seemingly made more P biologically available. If someone in an office read that report in 18 they'd be limiting their P spread. Eyes on the ground.

Saying all that I've applied myself. Reason, in dero the dept get my soil results which are detailed anyway. But if I wasn't compelled already to do so, I'd be going through all the scenarios. Already been mentioned at meetings it's a nutrient management plan by dept.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993374#Comment_117993374

I don't see anyone making that argument. The landowner knowing data, and the Government knowing data which will be used to formulate policy, are two very different things. The landowner can contract a company to do all this sampling privately, they just have to dust off the Communion money. I left the Knowledge Transfer Scheme in the second year because all I saw in it was my data flowing one way, from my operation to the policy makers. Last I heard it was proposed to have a fertiliser register, that one would have to fill in to purchase synthetic fertiliser. Seeing as I don't use it, it's of no concern to me. But, it's easy to see if they know what type land you have, and where, they can form policy to limit what you can or cannot do. This is more conditionality by stealth. Instead of removing %'s from a CAP payment, they'll begin to limit what you can do that is market related.

From my point of view, the Government have no business knowing my business. If, and it's more likely than not, they start making things mandatory then it's time to look at opting out of schemes rather than in. Information is power/control. As good business people as farmers think they are, sharp operators 🙄, we bend over double to give away data in exchange for magic beans, instead we could purchase that data privately and keep it confidential.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993167#Comment_117993167

No I’m not confusing anything, I know exactly what soil sampling and soil analysis is.

Any soil sample I’ve ever taken I’ve always paid the €10 extra to get a full sample with micro nutrient results along with macro nutrients and also organic matter. The only extra I see in the dept scheme is pathogen testing.

I’ve also sent samples to the UK a few years back and got far more detailed results than what’s on the dept scheme. I must look up the results over the weekend and put them up here.

I also didn’t mention anything about “signing your life away to the dept”. I gave a detailed post earlier in this thread explaining how the soil sample results could affect my farm if the dept decide to use the results to restrict what farmers can spread or what slurry can be imported/exported.

Whatever anyone else decides to do on their own farm as regards the scheme is absolutely none of my business, the only advice I give is to be prepared for what you’re signing up to.

blue5000

Folks just calm down a bit, I don't think there's any need for conspiracy theories. this is, IMHO just to get an idea of how much carbon is in soil.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994251#Comment_117994251

Carbon is being tested in Kerry and Carlow I believe.

Nutrients in Wales.

Dozer1

Well said Blue,

from follows Dawgs comments on French agriculture policy this is what is coming our way and either now or in 5 years we'll be the same so conspiracy theories or not.

We're seeing it coming on the dairy side so either way there is a real crack down coming on what we put into the soil. Absolutely it is annoying the the information flow is one way but such is the world we live in.

Say my name

Does anyone have a concern that the results will be accurate if some parts are tested in this country and others in a different country?

My own other tests all went to Scotland.

Be interesting to see if the labs will cope with quantities involved.

I'm thinking I might if I get in just do the other test as normal to compare.

Be careful with the putting into soil talk and talking pollution. All sprays in non farmers eyes are thought of as pollution and unnecessary. Glyphosate is only registered to be used in Ireland till December 2022, etc. It's a slippery slope on what's deemed pollution. Carbon does cure lots in soil though.

Dinzee Conlee

I must say as a sheep farmer I find it somewhat amusing, or maybe ironic to hear lads talk about giving the government information, when you can’t sell a cow without it being recorded ‘on a computer’

Us poor ould sheep farmers are still working with paper… 🙂

I signed up to the soil scheme. I don’t put out any synthetic fertiliser… I don’t know if I am being right smart or right dumb, sure time will tell I pose 🙂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996230#Comment_117996230

That's fine, wait on. Some people have had experience in Govt agencies collecting information on land previously.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000145#Comment_118000145

Yeah, sure like I said Herd, time will tell…

What information gathering on land are you referring to as a matter of interest?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000298#Comment_118000298

Plant types, habitats, all contributed to designations. I say this information will contribute to constraints of a different kind. Selling an animal is a different thing, you must complete the paperwork to access the market. This will lead to constraints on how you will be allowed use your own land.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000303#Comment_118000303

Yeah, you could well be right Herd.

But, even if everyone boycotted this scheme, do you think the dept would say ‘we have no real or reference data to base this new constraint on? Shall we skip it, or just make up the numbers?’

I would guess the latter, so might as well get the soil sampling done…

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000303#Comment_118000303

It could also backfire. I have lands that are designated that should not be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000371#Comment_118000371

To each their own. I won't be sending on any more information than I absolutely need to to operate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000373#Comment_118000373

You could have more yet if you look at the Biodiversity 2030 thread, 13% of state currently designated to got to 30%. But that's for the other thread.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118001092#Comment_118001092

Oh I hear what you're saying and they're not to be trusted when it comes to designating land. When you see the green fields belonging to me that are designated, it'd make you cry. It's farmed land but not pushed with large quantities of bag stuff.

ABitofsense

Anyone hear anymore on this? I thought it was kicking off in November.

mickey1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140238#Comment_118140238

Checked mine on ag food online says Rass Not Selected for me

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143269#Comment_118143269

Says the same for me.

Don't know if its nessecerilly means anything.

Avns1s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143269#Comment_118143269

Same on mine. You'd think there'd be some explanation somewhere on the page.

mr.stonewall

Was there something in the budget extra money for it. Was this to allow extra farms into it

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143456#Comment_118143456

I forgot to apply. Presume it’s closed now?

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143929#Comment_118143929

I think it closed a month ago.

MfMan

Rec'd a letter this a.m. saying I have been accepted. Scheme will run for 12 months. They will be in contact anon to arrange a time to visit.

Dozer1

Same as that

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150291#Comment_118150291

I got the same today, we'll see what happens with the next step, hopefully it'll be done soon.

ABitofsense

Did ye have "RASS Not selected" in Agfood and get the acceptance letter?

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151177#Comment_118151177

My agfood says 'RASS Not Selected' - but I got an Acceptance letter this morning...

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151470#Comment_118151470

Yeah i have had that on agfood before for applying for various schemes, organics, tams etc. Wouldn't pay much attention to it.

Kevhog1988

Got my acceptance letter today also

Kevhog1988

also i notice it says sampling & analysis programme. I wonder what sort of info they will give us back.

tellmeabit

Letter here too. They Did mention an on the spot inspection is possible during the contract.

Bleating Lamb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153268#Comment_118153268

Would imagine that the possibility of an on the spot inspection would mean the Dept would land and take a second set of samples from fields where the initial Samplers took them.

Letter came here today as well…..but dated 5th November……

says ‘should you wish to withdraw you have to contact them in writing within 7 days of the date of this letter’……so that would be tomorrow by my reckoning that letter would need to go back from me tomorrow if pulling out.

Thats not giving people much time to think about it!!

tellmeabit

Didn't spot the date now.

Not too bad so. Should be of benefit. No really liking going on here. Aside for a few bags the last few years.mainly o on silage ground. No harm to get plan in place. May end up buying a good bit of silage next year to allow for lime

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153696#Comment_118153696

In fairness, if a person applied for it in the first place, they were showing interest in it anyway. And anyway, if someone really wanted out for whatever reason, I'm sure it could be sorted.

I also fail to see how an inspection would work that way, the soil samples would have taken from the exact same part of each field. Would be pretty unworkable in fairness. I'm not really sure why an inspection would be even needed?

Bleating Lamb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154316#Comment_118154316

I think I will stay in it….the reality is ALL farmers will have to play the tune set out by Europe on Carbon etc in the years to come…..this scheme will give the Dept a more accurate picture of soil conditions in each county…..that picture will then be used to set limits for ALL farmers in years to come imo.

Regarding the Dept checks it’s hard to see any other beneficial thing they could do than double check accuracy of soil reports from a % of farms in the scheme.Initial agents doing soil sampling would be told by Dept to really zero in on location of where samples were taken from in each field iykwim……and then Dept could resample from same spots again.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154316#Comment_118154316

Afaik the samples will be GPS logged. So down to the inch in the field.