Staff shortages coupled with a housing shortage. Dublin is in trouble.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936361#Comment_117936361

Yes, then we quickly ran out of the people in Ireland who wanted to work so immigration was the answer. It still is.

As I said, the sooner PUP is gone the better. People are sick of paying for someone elses life while they struggle on.

We also need to review our tax system so everyone who is earning is contributing.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210281/staff-shortages-coupled-with-a-housing-shortage-dublin-is-in-trouble

I heard on the news last night that there are 17,000 people on Covid payment and why would they go back to work....

I assume lots of them in their homeland having a good time... fair play to them...

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936325#Comment_117936325

You will find a few people would prefer companies go bust than have to give up sitting at home on PUP

All sorts of excuses been made as the gravy train is coming to the end

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936395#Comment_117936395

Why do you think those 17000 are immigrants and not Irish?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936395#Comment_117936395

No,17K Allegedly retail workers (Spread over 26 counties, not as is being suggested all happilyresiding in Dublin, there's actually 110k still on PUP , I won't comment on the Homeland bit, I can read between the lines but very, very stringent checks being done weekly 😏

The news you refer too went further, vested interests want the phasing out of PUP speeded up, no mention of course by these same people of speeding up an ending of their own government supports, very curious all together.

Government have correctly said they've no plans to change to the phasing out process of PUP.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936412#Comment_117936412

I wasn't aware the thread was just about Dublin... why wouldn't they go to their homeland if they not working i have no problem with that...

Where are all the staff that were working before Covid... none of it makes sense to me....

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936404#Comment_117936404

I was repeating what the guy said on the news that alot of the people in the sector were not from Ireland... but that's for all to see....

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936460#Comment_117936460

Whilst the Thread Title mentions Dublin, the problems are being felt outside Dublin .

The sectors most vocal on staff shortages, Retail and Hospitality had a high dependency on workers from other countries (all excellent I might add, I worked with many)

With little option to go on PUP initially, Rising costs, obviously family concerns abroad and uncertainty, they've left, that's just a simple fact. Even if they wanted to return (highly unlikely in the short term, finding and affording accommodation on the wages on offer is just near impossible, this even aside from accommodation availability issues.

Of course there are Irish Ctizens still on PUP and the reasons go way beyond this narrative of laziness. Some have actually lost their Jobs and awaiting Redundancies, Some perhaps have actually returned home (outside Dublin), others are not being offered full time hours and most I suspect caught up in uncertainty. Separately and unrelated to PUP many people have just left these sectors all together and frankly, who'd blame them.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936478#Comment_117936478

Good post... Seems we have a divided society... on one hand people with loads of dosh who can eat-out and spend as they please they please and the service staff who cannot afford a place to live... Its good enough for us as the housing thing has being coming for a few years now and Covid has changed the landscape on top of this...

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936502#Comment_117936502

Thank you , I get people's frustrations , I just wish that some would be a little more objective and less un caring in their assertions. Over all the Government have done a decent Job supporting both businesses and employees. I just feel at times it's easy to be critical rather than look at the bigger picture and both sides of an issue.

I've absolutely no doubt there have been abuses of supports on both sides, Businesses and Employees ,but on the whole I still believe in decency , whilst looking at an issue from both sides of the coin so to speak.

I recall that awful Cliché "we're all in this together " , long forgotten now it seems.

There are real and Genuine hardships out there and there's still a while to go before the full story of the Pandemic and its affects is written or fully understood 😏

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936502#Comment_117936502

that’s not true. In reality we have 3-4 tier

A very small percentage of ireland who have a lot of wealth.

The middle tier who in reality pay all the taxes, have jobs, have kids, are the ones who are constantly hit to pay for everything. The people that all during covid worked or had to go out to work ASAP to keep everything afloat

The people on lower wages but contribute nothing in terms of tax etc to the country, as seen in covid this bracket went onto PUP without any loss of tax intake

The permanent social welfare people which is growing, haven’t worked and will never work their entire life.

The line that millions of people are walking around ireland throwing money around is rubbish and spun by some polticial parties. It ain’t true

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936529#Comment_117936529

What a load of sh1t. Lower paid workers had to work through Covid in lots of industry's for peanuts whilst middle class workers sat at home on their laptops. Lower paid workers also have jobs, have kids and pay taxes.

The fact that Borris has to issue special visas for truck drivers all ahused Brexit says it a really.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936529#Comment_117936529

It's clear you believe that negativity = Truth , its also clear what your thoughts on Social welfare are. Happy you've clearly a stress free life, with no worries or a care in the world .

There are currently 175k approx on SW job seeker related payments, Many more on Illness related claims , I'm sensing your resentment of all things Social Welfare and of course there's a Tiny percentage of very long term unemployed but my god, you paint a picture of a nation of scroungers, very depressing and factually incorrect.

Just as an aside, you may not be Aware there are 1000's also on part SW job seeker related payments, these are those who either can't or are not Offered full time hour's, are these to scroungers.

What's fascinating is you seem to accept low paid people don't contribute to Tax Revenue but don't ask why or even question why that is, could it be they earn so little. No mention of the fact low paid still pay PRSI and USC.

How did that search go for available rental properties go incidently.

That's it from me, going to leave it at that , enjoy the rest of your day .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936385#Comment_117936385

this quickly running out of people is nonsense.

There are plenty of places in the world, even in the west, with little or no immigration. In those cities or towns the minimum wage job is done by teenagers who live at home. Bringing in immigrants to do those jobs benefits next to nobody - the tax take is minimal, the immigrants live in hovels or the state has to provide accommodation, housing prices go up.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934828#Comment_117934828

this is not how the real world works, we have become over reliant on the private sector money supply, i.e. credit, private sector businesses must effectively take on this new debt, in order to make payments, including employee pay, by shutting off pup payments, this puts incredible pressure on the private sector to do this. confidence in our economies is required in order for private sector businesses to do this, but our economies are currently extremely vulnerable, pup payments are/were giving us a buffer, a level of protection, providing citizens and businesses with liquidity, to maintain an element of economic activities, removing pup payments may in fact cause a slow down of economic activities. under these conditions, whats required to maintain a level of growing economic activities, under this approach, i.e. cutting pup payments, is actually for all of us to rush to the banks, start spending our deposits and to take out new loans, so who wants to go first!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936651#Comment_117936651

Really teens can be truck drivers and run mid level restaurants, also who works in a butlers chocolate cafe on a Wensday morning when the teens are in school or college.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936358#Comment_117936358

Do the sums yourself. Say someone doing 40 hours a week minimum wage after deductions say less than 400.Take maybe travel expenses to and from work and any other expenses work related. Maybe not earning less than the pup now but not to much incentive for standing on your feet for 40 hours. And another thing the hospitality sector are very underpaid in my eyes for the work that is involved.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937175#Comment_117937175

Your actual Point (which was absurd), was we need experienced staff to return earning less than they are getting on PUP, I've given you the current rates (Scroll back if your confused),

perhaps it's you that needs to do their Sums 🧐

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937191#Comment_117937191

No, I have my sums well done. Absurd is people thinking that there was no cheap labour happening in this country. Truth is alot of the people who were being used as cheap labour have returned home thus leaving a big shortage.

Yurt2

Fact time:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20201214-1

We have a pretty chronic amount of people in low-wage employment in our society that is above the European average by 5 percentage points (Irish figure is 20%). The only non former Eastern-Bloc country above us is Germany, and their rate is accounted for by the former DDR dragging their figures down relative to the much wealthier West Germany.

This is not a healthy state of affairs. For reference, strong social democracies we like to think we're similar to have rates like 3.6% and 5% in low wage work (Sweden and Finland respectively).

Such an amount of people in low wage work is not socially sustainable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935290#Comment_117935290

Irish people, these days, don’t even want to clean up after themselves let alone others.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936580#Comment_117936580

Yes because everyone in the "middle class" sits at a laptop 🙄what do you define as the middle class?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936618#Comment_117936618

No negativity with me,I told it as I seen it.

You have no idea what my life is like so not sure why you are making so many assumptions. I didn't paint a picture of a "Nation of scrougers". The exact opposite and I clearly marked a 4th tier so as not to lump everyone in together which is clearly your goal.

I seen this a lot recently, its a us v them mentality. In reality as I pointed out it is not a us v them because within Ireland we have loads of groups, some people don't like that because then its not as easy to create division.

So far you have talked down to everyone that has a different opinion than you. Boards is to share opinions, not shout down everyone else who has a different one. Will leave you to it

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937228#Comment_117937228

Again I refer to your absurd comment, of course there was cheap labour and it would seem your actually supportive of this, that's actually worse than absurd, it's actually disturbing.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937306#Comment_117937306

You decry the us v them attitude and the other side of your mouth says low wage workers 'contribute nothing'. These are the people that kept the country running over the last 2 years and you see fit to sh*t on them. I'd urge you to take a hard look at yourself but I realize that's a waste of breath.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937306#Comment_117937306

I make no judgements personally but will absolutely respond to quite pointed attitudes towards SW and more to the Point PUP supports. If refuting your bizzare claims is taken by you as being patronising, so be it but instead of bemoaning how badly you feel treated, perhaps instead respond coherently to a different point of you.

Moaner in Chief , Adrian Cummins from the Restaurant Association has just had his arse handed to him live on Radio by government an opposition TD's after making outlandish accusations of wide spread fraud re PUP. Absolutely disgraceful comments essentially claiming 110k PUP recipients are not even in the country. Utter clown

How's that search Going for all those available rental properties you seem to think exist 🤔

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937311#Comment_117937311

I think you have taken me up totally wrong. I totally disagree with cheap labour and totally understand why some people are not going back to work in minimum wage jobs while the pup is still Available.

I think the minimum wage is a joke and definitely not a living wage, and now when a lot of sectors are calling for the people receiving pup to be looked into the pup supports still being given to these sectors have to be looked into also.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937323#Comment_117937323

As usual you have a personal comment in a post. Nothing new.

I haven't s**t on anyone. If you want to turn the post that way, off you go. If you want to see people s**ting on someone, look at the reaction to the government offering the HSE staff a few days off. People tripping over themselves to complain about it.

Trying to say "they kept this country running" is rubbish, the entire country did that, from top to bottom. The problem at this stage is some peopel are taking advantage of the PUP and it should be shut down, it served it purpose. you have someone here trying to single out people who work in laptops? those people paid taxes etc during the crisis which has kept everything working. I would never disregard anyone.

I just clearly marked out how Irish society is, not like some people who want to start a us v them argument.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937379#Comment_117937379

Do you have a mirror in your house? Shuffle over to it and take a look at yourself.

While the managerial / administrative class were sitting at home on pointless zoom meetings with their collective thumbs up their arses (Im broadly in that world so I'm entitled to say it), low wage workers were in meat processing facilities, manning supermarkets, making deliveries and much more.

You're part of an embittered class who is probably less important to the proper functioning of the economy than you'd care to admit, but you're a small notch above the service sector people you deride and it's psychologically important to you to do them down.

It's entirely consistent with your contributions in other threads which is dripping with disdain for others yet you're very impressed with yourself.

Your PUP theory is conspiratorial nonsense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936770#Comment_117936770

Are those minimum wage jobs? Managers? Truck drivers?

Because they shouldn’t be.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937235#Comment_117937235

I have huge envy for Finland. The best public education system and energy security with their nuclear reactors. They really get the big decisions right.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937443#Comment_117937443

Indeed. Droll as they come and good to share a drink with as well! Beautiful place in the summertime with all their lakes - really look after their environment well.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937352#Comment_117937352

I apologise sincerely, I read back and your correct, I did COMPLETELY miss read your posts and I am sorry, I stand humbly chastised 😏

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937424#Comment_117937424

Well said 👏👌👍

jrosen

There are industries that simply dont pay enough for people to stay in. Its not just about the basic hourly rate, for alot of retail/personal services and hospitality roles there are no other benefits, no health, no sick, no pension, no maternity pay. The hours are long, hard and often unsociable. Doing these jobs and taking home a low wage is fine if your living at home with mum and dad or in a house share with others. But with the cost of living in Ireland high, the cost of rent and purchase high these roles are not longer suited to providing someone with a reasonable salary that allows them to support themselves.

If we want to attract people into these roles and we want people to stay then the job and package needs to be attractive.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937548#Comment_117937548

The nub of the matter. A case in point is Denmark's meat industry - which is large, very profitable and export dependant. Danes aren't too proud to do this work, and it's not because the Irish are workshy - it's because their plants pay well through collective bargaining and offer a future for people working there (pensions and benefits etc). Meanwhile, Irish processing facilities ship in people from Russia and further afield, stack them high in houseshares in provincial towns and in many cases don't even pay PRSI with management running profits and employment contracts through a third country. It's a dismal and grubby industry and is treated with absolute kid gloves by the government. Atrocious for for the farmers who provide the primary input, atrocious for the workers in the processing facility who are treated like crap, and just about the only gain goes to the processor who have the cheek to run their profits through their books in Luxembourg on a tax dodge and lobby the government like hell as if they hold up the sky all by themselves.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937424#Comment_117937424

I never said what I do, so not sure why you are making these assumptions? Especially when you are not very good at making them

I don’t distain anyone, someone who make a million v someone who make 20 cent, that’s the difference here. It seems a few people here just want to hate someone else. I do think everyone should pay their fair share

anyway as usual these discussions are reduced to childish comments so I will leave you to it

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937766#Comment_117937766

You did distain people and then dug a rather large hole denying it.

Let's just leave it that

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937379#Comment_117937379

once again, pup payments created critically needed liquidity for the economy, i.e. cash money, withdrawing this money from the economy will in fact reduce economic activities, pup payments should in fact remain in place, but at a reduced rate, in order to safe guard the economy, until we return to some sort of normality. we re exposing the whole economy by not doing so, in particular many private sector businesses who desperately need this liquidity to survive

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937766#Comment_117937766

Who's not paying their fair share?

Let's take a worker on 22-26k working full-time in a retail environment and if living in an urban setting almost certainly renting. How much more do you want to tax them and for what purpose? Just so you can fold your arms and say "great, they're paying their fair share now". Before, their economic circumstances were extremely precarious, afterwards you've driven them into poverty. Great result. You can't draw blood from a stone and 1 in 5 workers in this country are in this situation. As presented to you earlier, we're the worst country in the EU from the other side of the former iron curtain for the proportion of workers on low wages. This is the economy we've built for ourselves.

Driving people into poverty just to sate someone else's perceived tax anxiety is dumb politics and will drive this country into the sea socially and you're not prepared for the consequences of that. Unless you're in the top 10% of earners, and I doubt you are, you're not even paying that much tax compared to European peers of the same earning bracket (in fact, you're likely paying a lot less).

malinheader

The shortage of lorry drivers in the UK and here is another example of cheap labour being used for the last twenty years or so.

I know there are other factors like to many regulations and astronomical fees for anyone trying to become a driver, but the fact is alot of companies exploited the market of cheap migrant labour and the money was very poor.

Know we have a shortage because very few were taking drivers on and willing to train them, construction industry going the same.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938036#Comment_117938036

The Irish and UK economies got addicted like crackheads to cheaper labour from eastern accession states. In the round, It was not a healthy phenomenon for both the accession states (brain and youth drain) and the receiving countries (structural and deliberate wage suppression at a vulnerable end of the economy).

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937846#Comment_117937846

I don't distain anyone as I already said. Hence why from the start I said the "us v them" was BS. Plus when I said everyone in Ireland combined during covid I was shot down by another posters. It seems people want to forget about the farmers etc and all the other jobs. Just focus on "people with a laptop", I can tell you even the people with a laptop were critical to the recovery so far

A lot of anger & hate on this thread. Not sure why.

As I said PUP has done it jobs, it should be shut down. The sooner the better because at this stage it is holding back Ireland and not helping it

tinytobe

The shortage of lorry drivers is British-Brexit made. The rest of the EU also has a shortage of lorry drivers but they can still access a bigger pool of potential drivers from other EU countries. Plus there are the issues of endless queues at the border especially at Dover. In the end, who wants to be a lorry driver these days? Poorly paid, and unsocial hours...etc..

Regarding the name of the thread, and Dublin the problem is that in certain jobs the salaries are so low, one can't even afford to rent in Dublin. Even with high salaries one is forced to share a property with complete strangers, which at a certain age isn't really an option anymore. Naturally this creates certain staff shortages. This is mainly an Irish-made problem. Greedy land owners, greedy developers, etc... In the end, it's just a supply-demand issue like the Covid 19 vaccine. But in this case the supply simply isn't there, or if supply is kept limited, it ensures prices go up and up.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937990#Comment_117937990

Makey uppey scenario don't really interest anyone because they are made up by someone desperate to prove a point. So end up been, well pointless.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938118#Comment_117938118

You directly said you want people to pay their fair share. You directly said low paid workers 'contribute nothing'

Do the universe a favour and own it, and if you're feeling brave, give a stab at answering the conundrum I posed for you, which was a fair exposition of your stance.

You cant square that circle without further exhibiting your disdain.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938133#Comment_117938133

Yes, they do contribute very little, but is that not their fair share? you are adding 2+2 and getting 5.

Not sure why you have an issue with asking for everyone to provide a fair share to the government? that could be 1 euro or that could be 1 million depending on their wages.

Conundrum? 😂 You are making the accusation about distain to cover up your own issues with members of the Irish public. That is not on me. As I said I am telling it like I see it, that doesn't involve distain for anyone. If you have prejudices don't think everyone else does. That on you

malinheader

Quick thought. Half of Ireland's TDs are millionaires.

Does anyone else like me wonder how these people can really relate to the hardships of ordinary workers and the financial struggles they face every day.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938170#Comment_117938170

God help you dudz you're not long putting on your rollerblades when you're facing down your own palaver.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938212#Comment_117938212

No idea what that means but I don’t expect it’s an apology for all the false accusations and assumptions you made

Anyway leave you to it