Staff shortages coupled with a housing shortage. Dublin is in trouble.

malinheader

The shortage of lorry drivers in the UK and here is another example of cheap labour being used for the last twenty years or so.

I know there are other factors like to many regulations and astronomical fees for anyone trying to become a driver, but the fact is alot of companies exploited the market of cheap migrant labour and the money was very poor.

Know we have a shortage because very few were taking drivers on and willing to train them, construction industry going the same.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938036#Comment_117938036

The Irish and UK economies got addicted like crackheads to cheaper labour from eastern accession states. In the round, It was not a healthy phenomenon for both the accession states (brain and youth drain) and the receiving countries (structural and deliberate wage suppression at a vulnerable end of the economy).

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937846#Comment_117937846

I don't distain anyone as I already said. Hence why from the start I said the "us v them" was BS. Plus when I said everyone in Ireland combined during covid I was shot down by another posters. It seems people want to forget about the farmers etc and all the other jobs. Just focus on "people with a laptop", I can tell you even the people with a laptop were critical to the recovery so far

A lot of anger & hate on this thread. Not sure why.

As I said PUP has done it jobs, it should be shut down. The sooner the better because at this stage it is holding back Ireland and not helping it

tinytobe

The shortage of lorry drivers is British-Brexit made. The rest of the EU also has a shortage of lorry drivers but they can still access a bigger pool of potential drivers from other EU countries. Plus there are the issues of endless queues at the border especially at Dover. In the end, who wants to be a lorry driver these days? Poorly paid, and unsocial hours...etc..

Regarding the name of the thread, and Dublin the problem is that in certain jobs the salaries are so low, one can't even afford to rent in Dublin. Even with high salaries one is forced to share a property with complete strangers, which at a certain age isn't really an option anymore. Naturally this creates certain staff shortages. This is mainly an Irish-made problem. Greedy land owners, greedy developers, etc... In the end, it's just a supply-demand issue like the Covid 19 vaccine. But in this case the supply simply isn't there, or if supply is kept limited, it ensures prices go up and up.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937990#Comment_117937990

Makey uppey scenario don't really interest anyone because they are made up by someone desperate to prove a point. So end up been, well pointless.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938118#Comment_117938118

You directly said you want people to pay their fair share. You directly said low paid workers 'contribute nothing'

Do the universe a favour and own it, and if you're feeling brave, give a stab at answering the conundrum I posed for you, which was a fair exposition of your stance.

You cant square that circle without further exhibiting your disdain.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938133#Comment_117938133

Yes, they do contribute very little, but is that not their fair share? you are adding 2+2 and getting 5.

Not sure why you have an issue with asking for everyone to provide a fair share to the government? that could be 1 euro or that could be 1 million depending on their wages.

Conundrum? 😂 You are making the accusation about distain to cover up your own issues with members of the Irish public. That is not on me. As I said I am telling it like I see it, that doesn't involve distain for anyone. If you have prejudices don't think everyone else does. That on you

malinheader

Quick thought. Half of Ireland's TDs are millionaires.

Does anyone else like me wonder how these people can really relate to the hardships of ordinary workers and the financial struggles they face every day.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938170#Comment_117938170

God help you dudz you're not long putting on your rollerblades when you're facing down your own palaver.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938212#Comment_117938212

No idea what that means but I don’t expect it’s an apology for all the false accusations and assumptions you made

Anyway leave you to it

head82

I would be all in favour of the PUP being shut down if it meant that those who were forced onto it had a job to return to. And by that, I mean their original job per terms and conditions. But this is not the case. A great many employees are being asked to return on reduced hours/wage. Which in a lot of instances equates to not much more (sometimes even less) than what they are receiving on PUP. Where would be the logic in that?

There are other factors also dictating to a reluctance to return to work which was acknowledged by Leo Varadkar just this week in his speech regarding DSP topping up redundancy payments. He stated approx. 25,000 to 55,000 employees are eligible to trigger redundancy at the end of Sep. A right that has been denied them till now. If someone was to obtain alternate employment, they would forfeit that entitlement. Again, why would someone choose to forefeit that right?

This assumption that abandoning the PUP is going to instantly resolve the labour shortage is incredibly short sighted. It's a much more complex issue. And the other prevailing assumption that everybody on the PUP is having a 'grand auld time'.. trust me, they're not! The begrudgery is unwarranted.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938218#Comment_117938218

You were given a very specific scenario of a worker on 22-26k (a low wage worker by any metric) a cohort you said (and a direct quote) that they 'contribute nothing'. Not a makey-uppy scenario given that there are probably near half a million workers in this bracket - you were challenged on how much more you would tax them to sate your notional "not paying their fair share" anxiety and to what purpose, and you got on your rollerblades when pushed for an answer.

Now you're staring at your shoelaces because you realise the implications of answering the question.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938091#Comment_117938091

'once again, pup payments created critically needed liquidity for the economy, i.e. cash money, withdrawing this money from the economy will in fact reduce economic activities, pup payments should in fact remain in place, but at a reduced rate, in order to safe guard the economy, until we return to some sort of normality. we re exposing the whole economy by not doing so, in particular many private sector businesses who desperately need this liquidity to survive'

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938391#Comment_117938391

PUP should be scrapped

If the government decides on a different system that’s up to them. PUP will always be associated with covid and we all want to see the end of covid and keeping PUP going just reminds people of it

Im sure if they want to pump money into the economy then it should be to everyone. Not just a select few

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938462#Comment_117938462

covid aint done yet, and pup is only term, it really shouldnt cause too much distress. i think workers truly need to be looked after here, we ve had government after government promising us the moon and stars, it hasnt happened, i think maintaining a reduced pup payment to these workers would be truly welcomed, and it would also be extremely beneficial to all citizens, as a large proportion of this money would remain to be spent into the economy, all citizens would benefit from this

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938485#Comment_117938485

So you agree all workers should be given something. Maybe we should invest in a one off payment to all workers to thank them for Covid. Then shut down PUP after that.

The reduced PUP already exists, its called social welfare/dole etc and has been around for years

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938591#Comment_117938591

ideally yes, i would like to see all workers getting something, but at the moment, thats highly unlikely to occur, due to many stupid ideas, but since we ve managed to get pup implemented, which is effectively a ubi style system, without too much resistance, its probably best not too get too ahead of ourselves. a one off payment would only be beneficial for a short period of time, our economy needs a continual new supply of money, to maintain its existence, and growth. if this was to be done, it would need to be done on a regular, frequent and on going basis, to be truly beneficial. the whole idea is to try prevent business closures, and an increase in unemployment, and ultimate towards job growth.

jill_valentine

What will be the business lobby's line when PUP does end and they still can't get staff for what they're offering?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938630#Comment_117938630

yup, theyd want to be careful what theyre wishing for, if they want businesses to grow, to create more jobs, their employees are gonna need more money!

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938630#Comment_117938630

Dunno where I read it but there's estimated 60k people who's job is gone as soon as the government stops the employee wage subsidy. If firms paying e11 an hour are going to go wallop, paying e15 an hour isn't gonna be too sustainable.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938667#Comment_117938667

hence why removing pup now is beyond stupid!

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938630#Comment_117938630

They will just go to Eastern Europe and hire. Companies are already doing it like Keelings etc.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938728#Comment_117938728

maybe, maybe not, this approach has limitations

jrosen

Pup was great, it filled a wage gap for people who were forced out of work. But what is happening now and the media like to spin it differently is that staff are being offered their jobs back, same rate of pay but on zero hour or flexible contracts which they wouldnt have had before. So they have gone from 37+hour week to less. We have businesses open with reduced capacity, reduced capacity means less staff needed to cover the hours opened.

thunderdog

My other half is a secondary school teacher. A big issue at the moment is getting new teachers into the maths/science based fields in Dublin. Seemingly trying to get a maths teacher in Dublin now is near impossible. If I came out of college with a maths degree I would either avoid teaching completely (for a higher paid job in a private company) or if I had my heart set on teaching I would move well outside of Dublin for the equivalent teaching job but much lower outgoings.

Whats the incentive to being a secondary school teacher in Dublin now?

Dempo1

Attached is an example of the outrageous agenda being pushed by one particular lobby group. In essence Adrian Cummins of the Restaurant Association Ireland went on National Radio peddling all sorts of wild accusations and innuendos, including Fraud and seems to think 110k PUP Receipients are not even living in the country, suggesting they all should present themselves at local Social Welfare offices to confirm they living in Ireland.

When confronted about these serious charges, to which there is NO evidence he then says there is antedotal evidence and then says he's not making any accusations.

It wasn't long before he had his Arse handed back to him by a government Junior minister and 2 opposition TD'S.

Just to be very Clear, not only do DEASP do regular eligibility checks, Receipients have to log into their mywelfare accounts and calls are made.

Not only is there ZERO evidence of a concerted effort by PUP Receipients refusing to return to work, the DEASP set up a reporting mechanism for employers over a year ago, the last report suggested 85 contacts by employer's made and none complaints were not upheld or could be proven.

Cummins particularly, has being pushing this nonsense for months and when asked if he'd be as quick to request a stop of his industries Generous and ongoing business supports, he not only said no but he'll be pushing for them to be extended, his hypocrisy was breath taking.

The segment is a perfect example of clueless lobby groups being not only misinformed but determined to scare monger & insult the very people they claim they need to return to this sector.

If I had been on the panel, I'd have asked was a certain Restaurant in Dublin, which paid an employee his last weeks wage recently in 5 cent coins a member of his odious organisation, incidently, its not the first time this horrid employer pulled this stunt.

There was well documented Fraud cases at the start of the Pandemic, most notably multiple claims, identity theft etc, these primarily as a result of the way PUP was introduced as an emergency measure.

I again reiterate, 17k retail, 18k hospitality staff still on PUP , these are spread out over 26 countries, lobby groups generally Dublin Based so foolishly assume all these people live or worked in Dublin.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22008910/

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940099#Comment_117940099

The same incentives that they always had. It’s great saying you are getting a maths degree and working in private field but you don’t anything close to holiday/pensions etc. Plus it’s not all greatness working in private field

In terms of working in Dublin v outside well that’s a personal decision for many on where they want to work. The attractions of Dublin are clear and the ability to move up in schools or move to a new school is a lot easier

Also you have people that are born in Dublin and whole family is based in Dublin, moving to middle of Connacht hardly an attraction

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940349#Comment_117940349

Total Head case this man. He had to make a public apology when He called International women's day "cooking and cleaning day ".

But much worse was he put forward a proposal to have the minimum wage decreased by 10%.

Must have good connections to have held this position for so long.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940455#Comment_117940455

It's like a lot of these roles. Just look at the guy who looked after the nursing homes. Sent an email last year and then sat back and watched people die. These lads are handed jobs and if anything does wrong they havent a clue.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940455#Comment_117940455

It was appalling stuff , he has no connections and actually never worked in the Industry, not universally liked within the industry ( I am connected 😏) He's spent the last year peddling these lies and accusations and whilst I freely admit fraud did take place at the start, this clown will stop at nothing to blame others for the trouble the sector is in, not once admitting there are many reasons why many have left this industry.

Thankfully he had his arse handed back to him, just disgraceful behaviour.

There's one thing that fascinates me, Any Quality establishment that I know and has treated its staff well ,shown loyalty and commitment is not having staffing problems, one has to ask why that is 😏