What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

green daries · 16-12-2021 12:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328713#Comment_118328713

A lot of them genuinely do so

green daries · 16-12-2021 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328775#Comment_118328775

That's a great point

alps · 16-12-2021 12:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328794#Comment_118328794

Absolutely

Say my name · 16-12-2021 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325545#Comment_118325545

Milking cows in a tie up byre. Carrying the cans across the yard to the bulk tank.

The dungheap outside the byre. Two cows milked at a time.

Ah the 80's were a grand time. 90's meant four cows milked at a time and a pipeline. A pipeline. The mart working, running around penning stock with the wife running the show at home. The second job was needed. Even the social office was visited. Milking cows after the mart was finished at 1am and milked again at 7am before work again the next day.

My father's life. A privileged life.

None of this educated in US underprivileged life hardship.

Bass Reeves · 16-12-2021 12:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328713#Comment_118328713

I had similar holidays, no HI, a better pension contribution. That why when I bought land I decide to go down the drystock route and finishing stock in particular. It relatively easy to minimise time put it when it suits. However income is way less than dairying after that you work the tax system. As I said to someone lately you need 60-70 euro/ hour to be self employed......but finding some one to pay it is an issue. That is the harsh reality.

You made a choice there is no point in giving out about. What you did has it advantages and disadvantages. The biggest issue that many dairy farmers are finding is livestyle V return especially where there are high borrowing.

20+ years ago myself and my wife both worked full-time. Rakes of money but three children from a few months to 5 year old starting school so tine was challenging. My wife made the decision to jobshare and did it for 14 ish years. It improved our lifestyle. The cost financially was not as much as we taught. The money lost was at the high tax band, childcare cost halved, any banger did as a second car (incidentally at the time I need a car for work but I took the older car to work). It probably cost her s bit in her career but it made mine so when she went back full-time we were no worse off.

Life is about choices, there are advantages and disadvantages to all choice, you weight them up, make a decision and go with it. No point looking back and mulling over past decisions. Close the door and move on

green daries · 16-12-2021 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328815#Comment_118328815

No not on a traditional dairy farm not a notion

jaymla627 · 16-12-2021 12:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328680#Comment_118328680

Have you ever worked on a dairy farm?

Bass Reeves · 16-12-2021 12:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328843#Comment_118328843

Why do you ask that.

straight · 16-12-2021 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328825#Comment_118328825

I'm not giving out about my decision. I knew well what I was taking on and I could afford it, thanks to my job.

I'm just saying that it's alot more labour intensive than alot of people let on and alot less profitable too. I genuinely feel for some people that are being led up the garden path into a life of debt by vested interests. I can quit the cows anytime I like. No debt, leave the wife work away. 😉

Mooooo · 16-12-2021 12:35am

Stock and prices have been released for immediate payment and jan delivery with a share of suppliers, decide what ye need and if its worth it to go for it. Check around as price and availability vary, urea is tight but other products are there as well. Been told in spring credit prices could well be 30 to 50 tonne dearer.

Majority of first round prob best to replace with slurry would be the way to go so not flooring tanks just because weather is right in Jan/ Feb, work it out and target ground that needs it and work out your grazing rotation to target slurry application. Soil test as well

On the side topic. Ye know yer own businesses, and what value ye should put on yer time. Most business outside of farming count all costs including labour and any profit then can be reinvested or distributed to owners/ shareholders. If you have a drawing wage figure for yourself and all other costs are included, anything over and above is the profit margin. Alot of companies work that way where a target profit margin is aimed for. If you're achieving that all well and good if not need to look at it and change it if you can. If doing too much out of cashflow and saying no money out of it then perhaps those projects should have been done thru finance etc. Lots of different ways of looking at things the next month or two is the time to do that.

straight · 16-12-2021 12:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328836#Comment_118328836

I don't think it would do me good to see the carry on on some of these best operators farms. They must be outsourcing alot of the work for a start which is all costing.

alps · 16-12-2021 12:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328836#Comment_118328836

We'd be the worst in our group at 27..the best is at 21..

newholland mad · 16-12-2021 12:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328499#Comment_118328499

Well if you can draw 130k out of a modest operation your doing a he'll of a lot better than most farms myself included. Not many paye jobs would pay that. Keep doing what you're at is my advice.

Dinzee Conlee · 16-12-2021 12:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328878#Comment_118328878

i first read your comment as

”I can quit the cows anytime I like.

No debt

leave the wife

work away”

My first reaction was jaysus, straight has a brutal enough exit plan in place. But then I realised it was ‘leave the wife work away’ 🙂 😃

jaymla627 · 16-12-2021 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328854#Comment_118328854

Your making batshit crazy assumptions is all,re hours worked, at present here theirs a 160 cows going through a 20 unit parlour, morning shift comprises of 30 minutes herding cows of cubicles into holding area, scraping mats, liming cubicles, pushing in feed…. 2 hours then to milk cows from cups on to machine turned off, holding area scraped, a hour spent then feeding out cows plus incalf heifers and weanlings, 15 minutes spent then scrapping of heifers cubicles etc, in for breakfast then….

Morning shift total time 3 hours 45 minutes

Evening shift

45 minutes on doing cubicles/pushing in feed, putting out a fresh mix for milkers, herding cows into holding area, one hour 45 minutes milking, then 15 minutes scraping up

Evening shift total time 2 hours 45 minutes

Thats 6 and a half hours a day, you can easily tag in 3 hours a day for general work outside the absolute essential stuff above, that’s the quietest time of the year here without doubt, come spring/summer it’s 16 hour plus days from March to September, re the 12 euro a hour to get cows milked, for a two hour milking 70 euro is the going rate locally

Bass Reeves · 16-12-2021 1:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328952#Comment_118328952

You are talking about a 160 cow herd. By any estimation it's a two labour unit system minimum. Day on day off.

I was describing a 50 cow herd. Often ( and I am making no assumptions about your system) the larger system struggle with attention to detail. You are tired you make a mistake, you miss an issue with a cow. I have worked 24-26 hours in the trot grabbing a kip for 30-40 minutes when you could. I remember coming home from night jobs and stopping once or twice for a sleep due to driver fatigue.

It's a fair assumptions that a 50 cow unit set up fairly right would be 35-50 % of the time involved depending on how capable the operator would be.

I have worked in many different area during my career. My biggest strength to was to minimises the time I took to do anything. One of the biggest problems in farming is lads either over expanding and not realising the time life balance.

When dairy expansion went full tilt too may lads only saw the turnover not the implications. It a bit like an old saying ''when you are in an inch you are committed''. The problem with dairying on is that when you go much beyond 80 cows time and attention to details gets squeezed.

I saw lads working 60-70 hour weeks in jobs I was at as well. You have to make lifestyle choices. Sell 50 cows lose the anger get a life back or figger a way to get a lad to do day on day off with you.

green daries · 16-12-2021 1:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328900#Comment_118328900

Good for them there not dairy farming per say there a bit like the company's who used to make stuff but now either buy it in and out stickers on it or buy in and bolt it all together and put stickers on. and just to add I suppose we best drag this discussion over to the dairy thread 😊

alps · 16-12-2021 1:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329036#Comment_118329036

The only thing they don't do is waste time. It would be interesting to do a little investigation into profitability relative to hours worked per cow😉From what I can see, it takes time to spend money..

yosemitesam1 · 16-12-2021 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329031#Comment_118329031

Most of the problems of low profitability in farming are down to lads being happy to live of depreciation or the return on an inherited asset and at the end of the year think that it was entirely down to their work that left a surplus of cash in the account...

kevthegaff · 16-12-2021 10:10am

Alot of the higher hours per cow here are holstein/fresian herds. I'm running well under 20 hrs a week, I'm lucky one block for mikers, just have to cross a road. Simple actions such as dont feed cows before milking, Jay was saying herding from the sheds.... milk earlier and then feed. I will mostly spread fertiliser on paddocks cows are coming out of, I will move strip wires will spreading fertiliser or slurry. When I'm agitating or pumping into tower I'll lime/sweep cubicles bed calves etc. Even when I'm spreading slurry ill bed calves, drop down clusters.

Machinery will save time also, skidsteer for scraping, cleaning out calf/cows sheds , lifting slurry pipes, lifting cows, moving calves, dropping in bales, absolutely essential kit on a dairy farm..

I was wasting at least an hour a day checking heifers on outside rented block, contract heifers from 16 weeks old. Outside block is used for silage. There was a quote here, it takes 20% to do 80 percent of jobs. But it takes 80% to reach 100%. I'd imagine Jay and straight are sh$t hot at what they do, but that eats time. When your on your own(never had family help) you have no option but you have to work leaner

straight · 16-12-2021 10:24am

The vets were on the journal claiming they work 90 hour weeks or something like that.

I was laughing to myself. I said if teagasc got their hands on them, they would massage the figures down to a 20 hour week.

Some lads are only codding themselves. I used to work with people that bought houses way further from work than me. They could be in to work in 15 mins. I couldn't understand how it was taking me half an hour when I was the one known for my fast driving.

They were leaving 10 mins early and coming in 10 mins late.

It's no wonder farmers are made fools of when there are guys constantly putting their hands up for more work. I'm driving around the country these days looking at machinery these days. All them hours are counted as farming here for example.

Grueller · 16-12-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329595#Comment_118329595

If you are intending to buy it is definitely farm work. If you are tyre kicking with no intentions then I would call that fun!!!

jaymla627 · 16-12-2021 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324040#Comment_118324040

30 euro after going on can/18.6.12 the past two weeks on the cash price, collected stuff yesterday and merchant was strongly advising us to source 2nd cut fertilizer asap, as supply is drying up even where cash is paid before delivery, its going to be very messy next year, tried to secure a load of 18:6:12 for next May, cash on delivery at todays prices and no joy