What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787201#Comment_118787201

I would suspect, given it's a Govt org. well connected to major commercial interests, that the answer to your question won't tell you a whole lot.

Did employees buy for home farms might be interesting.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787055#Comment_118787055

some will never catch on to that. in spite of all the warnings and interest free 04 accounts (in dairygold anyway since Jan 1st) they still waited.

Siamsa Sessions

Full disclosure: I'm a lay member of a farm union. Our county chair has been jumping up and down about people buying enough fertiliser since Xmas. But he got no traction at whatever monthly meeting they have with the head honchos in the Farm Centre. The President in particular, he said, wouldn't entertain anyone questioning Teagasc's advice (whatever it was this month).

The issue is the disconnect between farmers on the ground and the suit-wearing folks in Dublin.

Ironically, I just got a WhatsApp from the farm union with the latest fertiliser prices. What I bought is now €200/ton dearer compared to 2 weeks ago.

Is this the final straw and no more fertiliser will be bought across the country?

Gawddawggonnit

Lithuanian Urea 46% Gran = €1050.

AN 34.4% = €1000.

BB toplift. Price ex port. Max 100t.

Bass Reeves

Just after throwing out 675 euro.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789372#Comment_118789372

What did you get for that?

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787111#Comment_118787111

Normally keep 60 cattle for winter then buy 20 more in April. Fatten all over summer.(Fresians 520kg at present). Given the price of cattle and Fert would one be better just to hold what I have.

Fine Day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789584#Comment_118789584

Have you been feeding them meal??Leave them in the shed a push them for 2 or 3 months. It might just pay this year. I would fear beef prices may drop off later in summer if there is a big glut of cows been culled. You be surprised how quick your Friesians will fatten once they have pass the 24 month age.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789691#Comment_118789691

2kg up to a month ago. Cost of keeping them in shed with meal and having to replace silage would be huge

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789512#Comment_118789512

Two bags (750 kgs) urea spread on 20 acres.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789584#Comment_118789584

Wouldn't disagree with that. Probably means you can get them out earlier and hang them earlier. If you have extra grass in May/ June you can start buying next year's stock.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789691#Comment_118789691

I be very slow to do that. Even assuming you cannot leave a them out until mid April normally you are looking at these cattle only being half ready in June. June is always a tricky month for selling cattle. Processor's tend to try to drop prices if there are numbers around. I often find mid to late July/ early August when cattle can be scarcest . I kinda bullish about prices even if culling goes on. I think finished cattle will sell fairly well out into late September.

Feeding inside silage and 8 kgs ration will cost 3.5/ days.friesians are bad converted. Out on grass they will thrive better and costs below a euro/ day

older by the day

Met my neighbor new price list is out. 27:2.5.5 is gone up 500 per pallet. Is that true

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777474#Comment_118777474

I believe so. Any care to start doing a few numbers on whether it pays to buy it at all.should fellas with dry stock should be loading the cow box and maybe a few of the milkers as well

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789890#Comment_118789890

Saw a glanbia price of 1115 a tonne

grange mac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789890#Comment_118789890

I heard west Cork coops upped prices by 200 ton accross board last night. Urea now 1125 per ton... Madness really.

dohc turbo2

Screenshot_20220315-202610.png

Fine Day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789864#Comment_118789864

Its going to cost more that €1/day this year to keep an animal like this.

For pig iron, say we need 50 acres for the 60 cattle from mid April to mid August. (I am allowing for the glut of grass in May and slow down in July/august) to keep things simple we say no slurry just fertilizer applied and we call it at 2 bags of 18-6-12/acre total 120 bags or 6 ton At €800/ton. Total cost €4800. Mid April to mid August is 4 months say we allow €150/acre (been very generous here regardless whether owned or rented land we need to cost in). Total for the 50 acres is €7500. Up to €12300 now. 4 months is 120 days. This works out at €205/animal or €1.70 per day.

Option 1 - Let say we we kill in 100 day from now at €4/day each to include meal and silage. Total cost €400 per animal.

Option 2 we let the animal to grass for 120 day in mid-April at €1.70/day at a total cost €204 per animal.

We call it the animals are gona kill out at Say 340kgs average. We say there is price difference of 40cent more in June than August this gives us a total of €136 extra in June.

I have not allowed for the stock to be kept in until mid April before going to grass till August. This is 30 days and we say will go through 3 bales/day at €30 per bale works out €1.50/ animal per day so total for the Month is €45 per animal. We are now UpTo €250 for option 2.

Option 1 - 100 day feed at a cost of €400 with plan to kill animal at 340kgs and say €4.50/kg, total value of animal is €1530.

Option 2 - let the animal to grass mid April for 120 days including keeping animal in to mid April total cost €250. We kill in mid August at 340kgs at €4.10/kg, total value per animal €1394. I have not included if the animal goes over the 30 month age.

Correct me as my maths maybe way off as maths was never my strong subject.

I would not be knocking option 1 here too much as I have a great fear that there will be larger number of stock fit for killing later in the summer and thus giving the factory a good excuse to cut the price well. I do hope I be proven wrong. Just my opinion here so may be complete rubbish.

SuperTortoise

Is there any in the country or coming into the country to be bought?

Picked up a bit over the weekend, fair ammount of stock in the yard, was told all already sold.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789584#Comment_118789584

Without knowing your system or anything about your land quality, it really depends on whether you’ll have grass for 80 cattle. This is probably the year not to buy either the fertiliser or the cattle. And just go with your 60.

let the 60 go to grass. I wouldn’t even consider feeding and finishing out the shed at this time. Would be fairly confident of prices holding and maybe even increasing so you’ll get cheaper weight gain, less expensive and higher kill out in July August.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790541#Comment_118790541

BS. First off you are factoring in a land charge. Next in a paddock system cattle can be stocked at an average 2/acre until mid late July. Fetlizer a bag of 18-6-12 and 40 units of Ureal total cost less than 100/acre. He is going to have stock in the land anyway. He will be pulling cattle off the land from mid July on. Each bullock will require about 170 kgs of a barley/Maize /hulls mix total cost 65 euro@380/ton(projected cost) To finish off grass total cost about 120 euro inc dosing

I expect no more of a difference between mid june and mid July/early august of 20c/kg.Killout off grass should be slightly higher for a few reasons. First the Friesians will go stale very fast because they are in the shed so long. His cattle are 520 kgs great cattle for grass. At 520 kgs over 90 days in a shed I expect no more of a weight gain of 120 kgs. That will bring those cattle 640 kgs or 320 kgs DW. They will average 340 off grass in mid july/early August. If he has any P grade friesian cattle they will really struggle in the shed.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790696#Comment_118790696

Land quality would be good, should have plenty grass for 60 without much fert

Fine Day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790840#Comment_118790840

A bit aggressive here with your opening word. This is a fourm where people can share there views and experience and not to be made feel they are a total idiot.

A farm is a business and like any good biusness all cost need to be accounted for so that's why land needs to be included owned or rented. This man could easily feed his cattle on in the shed and rent out his land to some one to take a first cut from it and have it back after that.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791040#Comment_118791040

You're dead right on the land charge. Opportunity cost it's called.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790840#Comment_118790840

I'd agree with you and wouldn't dream of starting to feed 520kg cattle in a shed at this stage if the year. I've 580 - 600kg cattle in the shed at the minute that will be going back out to grass. Cattle will be gone stale in the shed by April or May and take way too much feed to kill from the shed after that.

But i disagree with you on the land charge. The way prices are these days for land rental, €400 plus an acre, then a land charge really should be added. As Straight said, opportunity cost.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789864#Comment_118789864

When will you go out with the urea? Going with the same here. 1 1/2 bags to the acre. Has gotten 3000 gallons to the acre last week.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791339#Comment_118791339

That is what I spread today

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791040#Comment_118791040

I was not being agressive I called it as it was. When lads start a ''it might be the year to feed cattle'' the counter is just as applicable '',it might not''.

If there is one thing we know it's cost is not the friend of the drystock farmer. The risk going high cost is enormous. Cattle could be dearer in August than June like last year. I would not expect it to be but they could.

The gamble with ration costs are especially with high feeding rates are enormous. Rations will climb in price over the next 4-6 weeks how fast is the question. He has sixty Friesians . It will cost in the region of 8k/ 20 to finish inside in the shed or 24k for 60 of them.

For what in the case even where you get 30-40c/ kg extra after lower K/O and the odd one going wrong maybe 40-50/ head extra or 2.5-3k and that is after you land charge. If the land charge is not included the economics are completely skewed

To recover the value of your ''land charge'' you have to find a way to return that value off the land. This is either by an putting more cattle on it, growing a crop or renting it. Renting it means there is no SFP. Will some one pay 150/ acres for 3-4 months for meadowing that is if the total area is suitable for that.

After that in your senario you are giving a value of 1530/ head. At present those cattle are making 2-2.1/ kg in the mart or 1050/ head. I cash them in before I would feed them for another 2-3k for a 24 k investment.

To make your assumptions work you are including a land charge. This land charge even if land is rented is already committed to. It like buying a wrong bullock when he is in the yard you are committed. You make the best of it after that.

Adding risk by committing to a 24k cost when committed to the land charge is just like not trying to make the best out of the wrong bullock.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791091#Comment_118791091

For there to be an opportunity costs there has to be opportunity. In Chinese opportunity and danger are the same word.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791228#Comment_118791228

I always hear about these great rental rates. However It depends on what part of the country you are in.

Will Mikekc get that where maybe, maybe not. If I went looking I could rent decent land around me for 150-200 acre. Maybe even less. Unless you are in a really strong dairy area then those rates may not be realisable. I know a lad trying to rent 40 ish acres with a shed he is struggling because his BPS is fairly decent and he struggling to get it factored into the equation. The rate/ acre is less than 200/ acre but the BPS is where the problem is.

You could also assume there is an opportunity cost for the shed or you time feeding the cattle when you could spend the time at something else. You also have to factor GLAS and ANC into the equation.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791715#Comment_118791715

I’m in Offaly, a mile away from Bord Na Mona bog and turf banks and that’s the money land is making around here and it’s not a big dairy area. For €150 an acre around here you’ll get land for first cut silage, but you’ll fertilise it yourself and silage would have to be gone off it before 1st June.

Mooooo

In reality the opportunity cost should go against the business as in is it returning more than what the land would make let out. It's basically there as a decision making tool so options are considered

Its not used in cost comparison in ag mainly because of the difference their is in land costs amongst farms. If I divide rent and repayments over all the land I farm the its costing me over 250/ acre, prob more, and that's not including any opportunity cost on the land that isn't part of the leased or purchased block. Someone with no land leased or repayments to make wouldn't have that actual cost going out, or someone making repayments on the whole farm such as maybe common in Holland would have much higher actual costs for a period

Fine Day

My area in recent times has become a strong dairy area. Anything weather it be long term or short term rental makes Savage money, this has made me more aware of my land value. Agreed we cannot pretict the future but we all do what we think is right at the time. Aggreed Bass the option to sell in the mart now worth considering. Let the next farmer take the risk, alot of cases cattle like this are bought and returned back to sheds for intense feeding. I never heard of term Friesians going stale in the shed shed after prolonged time indoor, everyday is a school day I suppose.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791549#Comment_118791549

Is it not too early for silage ground? Or are you going to go again?